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Offlinecitricacidx
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How about real change?
    #12245838 - 03/21/10 11:12 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

http://www.federalbudget.com/

The Government spent nearly $700,000,000,000.00 on the Department of Defense for the fiscal year of 2009, and yet the Department of Education can only get $60 billion? and NASA gets $20 billion? Really?

How about this: Cut the military budget by $300 billion. Then split that between Education and NASA, $170 billion and $130 billion respectively.

This will create smarter people who will in turn create a boom of advancements which would create new jobs, etc. And if NASA actually discovers complex lifeforms in space, then the military will need to be prepared to protect us from that. So in the long run, the military would get money back into it's budget after we start producing smarter people.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How about real change? [Re: citricacidx]
    #12245893 - 03/21/10 11:23 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

How about ending federal entitlement spending, which dwarfs the military budget?  Te military is actually a Constitutionally mandated function of the Federal government, unlike medicare and your food stamps.


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: How about real change? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12245908 - 03/21/10 11:25 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

with a decreased military spending, the government couldn't afford to be Team America World Police. They would have to change to a defensive game plan instead of the offensive tactics that they enjoy so much. And hopefully with smarter people being educated there would be less need for the military :shrug:


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OfflineRoker
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Re: How about real change? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12245911 - 03/21/10 11:26 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

the last president who tried that ended up with his brains all over his wife :grin:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How about real change? [Re: citricacidx]
    #12245989 - 03/21/10 11:36 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

citricacidx said:
How about this: Cut the military budget by $300 billion. Then split that between Education and NASA, $170 billion and $130 billion respectively.

This will create smarter people who will in turn create a boom of advancements which would create new jobs, etc.




everything handled by NASA could be handled by private firms, that
could save us $60bn, the feds shouldnt be involved in education and
damned sure shouldnt be tossing money at it, as of yet there's been no
correlation to the education spending and the quality of education, in
Ga and some other states we have a lottery that also partially funds
education in addition to the federal funding that's increasing every
year while the level of education remains stagnant



Quote:

And if NASA actually discovers complex lifeforms in space, then the military will need to be prepared to protect us from that. So in the long run, the military would get money back into it's budget after we start producing smarter people.




how, by raising taxes again or would they be stripping it from NASA's budget

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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12246019 - 03/21/10 11:41 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

citricacidx said:
How about this: Cut the military budget by $300 billion. Then split that between Education and NASA, $170 billion and $130 billion respectively.

This will create smarter people who will in turn create a boom of advancements which would create new jobs, etc.




everything handled by NASA could be handled by private firms, that
could save us $60bn, the feds shouldnt be involved in education and
damned sure shouldnt be tossing money at it, as of yet there's been no
correlation to the education spending and the quality of education, in
Ga and some other states we have a lottery that also partially funds
education in addition to the federal funding that's increasing every
year while the level of education remains stagnant



Man, I've donated my share of dollars towards the HOPE Scholarship. I live in GA too man. I think the government should be required to help education. If schools had proper facilities/equipment/books/materials then yeah, I think there would be an increase in quality education. I went to a private school from K-12. When I got to college I was really thrown off by them teaching the 5 paragraph format essay and people NOT knowing wtf it was. I've been doing that since 8th grade. So Yes, I do think there is a correlation between funding and better education.


[
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

citricacidx said:And if NASA actually discovers complex lifeforms in space, then the military will need to be prepared to protect us from that. So in the long run, the military would get money back into it's budget after we start producing smarter people.




how, by raising taxes again or would they be stripping it from NASA's budget




ok you got me on that one. But seriously, if there was life out there that was a threat to us, we'd probably shift priorities to fund our military.


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OfflineFNFAL
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12246035 - 03/21/10 11:43 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Cut the military budget by $300 billion. Then split that between Education and NASA, $170 billion and $130 billion respectively.

This will create smarter people




Money creates smarter people?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How about real change? [Re: FNFAL]
    #12246086 - 03/21/10 11:50 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

FNFAL said:
Quote:

Cut the military budget by $300 billion. Then split that between Education and NASA, $170 billion and $130 billion respectively.

This will create smarter people




Money creates smarter people?





Excellent question.  Just what does one suppose is the comparative output of those from privilege versus those from squalor?  It certainly isn't any secret that vast wealth becomes viciously diminished in a just a few scant generations, Deerfield be damned.


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: How about real change? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12246107 - 03/21/10 11:54 PM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Well there's diminished return unfortunately. If there are better facilities/equipment/books/materials then that presents the opportunity for a better education. Some kids will take advantage of this, but you can't force a child to want to learn. But why wouldn't we want the best learning tools for those that want to learn regardless of social status?


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InvisiblePoid
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12246899 - 03/22/10 03:49 AM (14 years, 11 days ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...as of yet there's been no
correlation to the education spending and the quality of education...


I was raised in a shitty-ass poor ghetto town, where gangs, murders and drug abuse abounded, but went to rich white schools, where basically none of that shit existed.

No correlation? Bullshit...:glittershitz:


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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflinePatisotagami
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Re: How about real change? [Re: citricacidx]
    #12247301 - 03/22/10 06:54 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Read a book on the achievement gap between high income and low income schools and then try saying that resources are not correlated with success. No, money alone will not improve poor-performing schools. However, it may give them the ability to provide textbooks to their students who can't afford them. It may allow their science labs to have working gas or dissections. And it would give the most excellent teachers a better incentive for staying in low-income communities to educate our most in-need students. Right now, the educational disparity in our country is the biggest current civil rights failure, and needs to be changed.

Sad thing is, we know how to fix it! The rich just won't allow us to. Gotta keep the poor people shining shoes at the airport and selling fruit on the street... :facepalm3:


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EVERYTHING IS EVERYTHING

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: How about real change? [Re: citricacidx]
    #12247660 - 03/22/10 08:15 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

citricacidx said:
And if NASA actually discovers complex lifeforms in space, then the military will need to be prepared to protect us from that.




:rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How about real change? [Re: citricacidx]
    #12248207 - 03/22/10 10:50 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

citricacidx said:
I've donated my share of dollars towards the HOPE Scholarship. I live in GA too man. I think the government should be required to help education. If schools had proper facilities/equipment/books/materials then yeah, I think there would be an increase in quality education.




schools have received increases in federal funding for years, in the
last 15 years that funding has doubled on the state and federal levels
yet the 'quality' of education has remained the same, you cant simply
throw money at the problem and expect it to get better, the first step
is to identify the problems and then take steps to fix it, since
funding hasnt helped in the past it's apparent that money isnt the
problem, we currently receive state, federal and lottery money and have
produced no results with schools clamoring for more money, at what
point do we start looking for the actual problem instead of guessing
that funding is the issue

Gwinnett is expected to lose $62 million in state funding this year yet
they have the ability to build 7 new campuses for 1600 new students, in
the past those budget surpluses have gone into projects like a new
stadium for Central Gwinnett, do you honestly believe that education
benefits from wasting $7million on this...



Quote:

Yes, I do think there is a correlation between funding and better education.




the funds are there up until the last couple of years at an ever
increasing rate but the test scores have remained the same, each year
the budgets increase and the quality of education stays the same, it's
been proven time and again, in fact the US spends far more on education
than any other nation yet in 20 years we've slipped from the top spots
to the 18th position out of the 36 developed nations included in the surveys

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/13/national/main838207.shtml

in case you're like Zappa, here's the article associated with the video
below, it addresses the issues in education today, the county I
currently live in has started a charter schools program that should be
going into effect in the next year, we'll  see how that works out since
the highest ranking schools in this county are ranked at below 300 in
the state
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=1500338


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Poid]
    #12248253 - 03/22/10 11:01 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...as of yet there's been no
correlation to the education spending and the quality of education...


I was raised in a shitty-ass poor ghetto town, where gangs, murders and drug abuse abounded, but went to rich white schools, where basically none of that shit existed.

No correlation? Bullshit...:glittershitz:




I find that pretty amusing since it quite literally says nothing other
than you went to school with wealthy kids but lived in an urban area,
many of georgias top schools are in urban areas where gangs and crime
are abundant, how exactly did these schools fare in knowledge testing

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Patisotagami]
    #12248297 - 03/22/10 11:11 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Patisotagami said:
Read a book on the achievement gap between high income and low income schools and then try saying that resources are not correlated with success.




I went to secondary school in 2 different school systems, one being an
urban school that was dominantly black, the education in that school
was actually better than what I received in the nice suburban school in
one of the wealthiest and fastest growing counties in the nation, a
school that's ranked 13 out of 14 in the county, the urban school was
ranked #3 out of 19 and was in a low income area

how i reading a book going to help us to understand this gap when the
actual statistics paint a clearly different picture in most cases, are
we to believe that an autor is not comparing apples to oranges or that
there's no bias involved in it's writing?

Quote:

Sad thing is, we know how to fix it! The rich just won't allow us to. Gotta keep the poor people shining shoes at the airport and selling fruit on the street... :facepalm3:




yes... blame the rich, the jackasses that are more focused on making
sure the athletics department is well funded

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Patisotagami]
    #12248339 - 03/22/10 11:20 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

It isn't the rich that keep poor people poor.  It is themselves with their endless parade of life sucking progeny and persistent sloth.  But of course they need someone else to blame for their own personal suckitude.


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Offlinecitricacidx
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Re: How about real change? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #12248359 - 03/22/10 11:24 AM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It isn't the rich that keep poor people poor.  It is themselves with their endless parade of life sucking progeny and persistent sloth. But of course they need someone else to blame for their own personal suckitude.




It's their dependency on the BIG GOVERNMENT because why would they want to go out and work hard when they could just sit around and have tax dollars taken away from hard working people to provide for them?


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #12248628 - 03/22/10 12:34 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Read a book on the achievement gap between high income and low income schools and then try saying that resources are not correlated with success




Have you ever once considered variables other than finances which could be considered contributing factors to substandard achievement?  When grades on standardized testing are taken into consideration tell me why impoverished white students score HIGHER than more affluent black students? Why don't the whites fall prey to the lack of funding scenario? Does this affliction only manifest its self on the minority students? I've gone to school in Detroit, so don't presume to tell others how these schools function, when by your own admission you stated you went to a rich white school.

I don't for minute believe there are poor schools. There are poor students. Students with no motivation, no drive, and no initiative to perform. The simply don't give a shit, I've seen it first hand thousands of times. There was a great documentary on HBO I believe. It was about idealistic motivated teachers attempting to do their jobs in inner city schools in Chicago. If you want to know what these schools are like you have to watch it. It shows teachers with 200 students idly sitting at desks during conferences when they state they are lucky if two parents show up, and those are the parents whose children are doing well. Shitty, pathetic parents and their worthless unmotivated bastard children are what is bringing down the levels of education in this country.

Have you ever read anything written by our founding fathers? How about Lincoln?

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

by:

Abraham Lincoln


Tell me how anyone without an advanced intellect, bordering on genius could have written such basic and prophetic, undeniable truth.
They (the founding fathers and other leaders) were some of the most articulate and eloquent authors ever. The great thinkers throughout history who thousands of years ago were able to accomplish great feats of intellect, engineering, and medicine. All without the internet, huge libraries ( with the exception of Alexandria), and billions of dollars thrown away to those undisciplined minorities and others that do not value or decide to take an active role in their own education. The parents don't care, don't motivate their children, the children don't care, don't do the work, and refuse to apply themselves. Ultimately both love to blame the system, blame the teachers, blame the "man", blame the funding, anything but place the blame where it belongs. Why is it that those that are home schooled and don't have access to all the educational "supplies" offered to even the most impoverished school districts perform so much better?

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Therian] * 1
    #12249231 - 03/22/10 03:03 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

When grades on standardized testing are taken into consideration tell me why impoverished white students score HIGHER than more affluent black students?




I'm going to need a source for this.

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Offlinedill705
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Re: How about real change? [Re: Redstorm]
    #12249370 - 03/22/10 03:24 PM (14 years, 10 days ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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