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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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 Becoming unimportant. 
#12211910 - 03/16/10 10:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Let's say one day you discovered that all your suffering was self created. And you created it by thinking that your "self" or personality structure was something real and permanent or should be or needed to be. Lets say you came to suspect that there really was no "self" like you had been believing all of your life but since you had been doing it all your life and everyone else was investing everything in that belief you found yourself having real difficulty grokking that things were really not that way at all. You kept falling back into thinking that your "self" was something real and that caused you to worry, fret, and suffer again and again. So lets accept that fact that it's going to likely be difficult and even maybe impossible to change all this.
Here's my question for you. How would you go about trying to change this? The more detail you provide the better.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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 Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 10 hours
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12211935 - 03/16/10 10:51 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well, I'd need to stop and look at how I was "falling back" before I could formulate any kind of plan. If I cannot discover this, and I see no choice but to accept the impossibility of the task, then a full acceptance is probably the best route. Surrendering to what is. So all I'd really change, is the amount of fight I put up. Efforts would be made to calm the energy leak of useless rebellion, and then a reallocation of that energy towards something more "profitable"
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12211941 - 03/16/10 10:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well i'm currently in this very predicament, if i figure it out i'll let you know.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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What have you found out so far weedhopper?
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Kickle]
#12212090 - 03/16/10 11:31 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Efforts would be made to calm the energy leak of useless rebellion,
What kind of efforts would work?
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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xFrockx
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,458
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 3 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212093 - 03/16/10 11:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Stop trying to change it.
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Radar
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 767
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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I would start by leaving my father's house and no longer letting him tell me what to do and think!
Then I'd wander maybe visit some gurus see what they say is working for them. Hang out in the woods for a while. Maybe fast for a while to try and break free of my body . Try a few different things. Eventually I think I'd just chill out....maybe under a tree and think about it and try and embrace my nonexistence and stop seeing an "I" .
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We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Radar]
#12212123 - 03/16/10 11:40 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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No you wouldn't.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212146 - 03/16/10 11:44 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212156 - 03/16/10 11:46 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
What have you found out so far weedhopper?
I found out that if you think about for awhile and accept it that life suddenly sucks. But if you put it out of your mind, then everythign is cool but you always have that thought in the back of your head like "This is pointless"
Also i've found that i look at humans as animals now rather than as some higher beings.
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BrainChemistry
Captain Obvious
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 3,657
Loc: Mountains of N. America
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212184 - 03/16/10 11:52 AM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would identify in my mind a clear purpose and intention, and focus all of my thoughts and attentions on achieving said purpose.
Any additional suffering that I encounter along the way, I would take as a learning opportunity (I assume we are talking about mental suffering). I would accept full responsibility for my own suffering, realizing that I am the only one to blame for it. I would use the knowledge from my mistakes to better myself, and pass that knowledge onto others so that they in turn might avoid suffering. But no matter how much I suffered, I would not stray from my original purpose or intention, unless in the course of my sufferings I found a higher goal.
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Word to your mom.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 10 hours
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212412 - 03/16/10 12:29 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Efforts would be made to calm the energy leak of useless rebellion,
What kind of efforts would work?
efforts towards:
concentration
cultivating awareness
non-attachment
those things seem to help when it comes to energy leaks
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Radar
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 767
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Kickle]
#12212464 - 03/16/10 12:40 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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You mean like correct effort!
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We have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us — the labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Radar]
#12212513 - 03/16/10 12:48 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Correctfort? 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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lmfsmoke
Stranger
Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 765
Loc: SoCal, LA
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Quote:
learningtofly said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
What have you found out so far weedhopper?
I found out that if you think about for awhile and accept it that life suddenly sucks. But if you put it out of your mind, then everythign is cool but you always have that thought in the back of your head like "This is pointless"
Also i've found that i look at humans as animals now rather than as some higher beings.
I also look at humans as animals it gives me a better perspective
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Genesis 1:29 - Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you"
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Second Law
Entropy
Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 109
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: lmfsmoke]
#12212532 - 03/16/10 12:51 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
lmfsmoke said:
Quote:
learningtofly said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
What have you found out so far weedhopper?
I found out that if you think about for awhile and accept it that life suddenly sucks. But if you put it out of your mind, then everythign is cool but you always have that thought in the back of your head like "This is pointless"
Also i've found that i look at humans as animals now rather than as some higher beings.
I also look at humans as animals it gives me a better perspective
I think some of us are like animals
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The idea of heat death stems from the second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy tends to increase in an isolated system. If the universe lasts for a sufficient time, it will asymptotically approach a state where all energy is evenly distributed. In other words, in nature there is a tendency to the dissipation (energy loss) of mechanical energy (motion); hence, by extrapolation, there exists the view that the mechanical movement of the universe will run down in time due to the second law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Second Law]
#12212541 - 03/16/10 12:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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All of us are. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Second Law
Entropy
Registered: 03/11/10
Posts: 109
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Poid]
#12212613 - 03/16/10 01:08 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
All of us are.
at times I am, but mostly I'm not
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The idea of heat death stems from the second law of thermodynamics, which states that entropy tends to increase in an isolated system. If the universe lasts for a sufficient time, it will asymptotically approach a state where all energy is evenly distributed. In other words, in nature there is a tendency to the dissipation (energy loss) of mechanical energy (motion); hence, by extrapolation, there exists the view that the mechanical movement of the universe will run down in time due to the second law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 10 hours
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Radar]
#12212629 - 03/16/10 01:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Radar said:
You mean like correct effort!
it's useful in the right context
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Becoming unimportant. [Re: Icelander]
#12212647 - 03/16/10 01:14 PM (14 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Let's say one day you discovered that all your suffering was self created. And you created it by thinking that your "self" or personality structure was something real and permanent or should be or needed to be. Lets say you came to suspect that there really was no "self" like you had been believing all of your life but since you had been doing it all your life and everyone else was investing everything in that belief you found yourself having real difficulty grokking that things were really not that way at all. You kept falling back into thinking that your "self" was something real and that caused you to worry, fret, and suffer again and again. So lets accept that fact that it's going to likely be difficult and even maybe impossible to change all this.
Here's my question for you. How would you go about trying to change this? The more detail you provide the better.
For what your talking about here, looking to see through an imagined self, the only way is to scan your sense of self and find out what it is, its more meditational/introspective than a thinking process though, its just observing & discerning what i am from what i can imagine myself to be.
There is no other way (imo) to see through an imaginary self other than questioning yourself, dismissing any imaginary answer the mind comes up with, and staying with the question over & over, until something hits home
Its coming to the most subtle thing in existence, the sense of self and investigating what is it?
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