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Dr. Seuss
The Cat in the Hat
Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 174
Loc: Seussville
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Oh no, it's an MAOI!
#11907388 - 01/26/10 07:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.
However, there is a catch. Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.
I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:
How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?
More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...
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Today you are you, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is youer than you. LOAD UNIVERSE INTO CANNON AIM AT BRAIN FIRE
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rsinatra13
ⓅⓈⓘⓛⓞⒸⓨⓑⓘⓃ
Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 1,738
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
#11907450 - 01/26/10 07:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine
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gornyhuy
A Myth Intrepidly Met
Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 2,933
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
#11907621 - 01/26/10 07:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!
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Dr. Seuss
The Cat in the Hat
Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 174
Loc: Seussville
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: gornyhuy]
#11907655 - 01/26/10 07:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
gornyhuy said: Care to share the Ayahuasca info? I know NOTHINK!
rsinatra13's DMT Jello Tek
^ That's one recipe
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Today you are you, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is youer than you. LOAD UNIVERSE INTO CANNON AIM AT BRAIN FIRE
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rsinatra13
ⓅⓈⓘⓛⓞⒸⓨⓑⓘⓃ
Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 1,738
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
#11907755 - 01/26/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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and i can confirm it works
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Keg
Medicated Stoner
Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Northwest Rainforest, Can...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
#11908003 - 01/26/10 08:34 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
rsinatra13 said: just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine
Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.
Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml
For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.
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rsinatra13
ⓅⓈⓘⓛⓞⒸⓨⓑⓘⓃ
Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 1,738
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
#11908158 - 01/26/10 08:57 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Keg said:
Quote:
rsinatra13 said: just throwing this out there, ive used rue as an MAOI for these trips without knowing anything about the foods/drugs/ect. that you shouldnt eat/consume/use/whatever and ive been fine
Really stupid. Certain drugs or food can be really dangerous if you take an MAOI.
Check Erowid for details: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/maois/maois.shtml
For duration that a drug lasts in the system, check erowid and other sites for information specific to each drug.
i wasnt saying it wasnt stupid, i just wasnt aware, and now i am
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Keg
Medicated Stoner
Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 110
Loc: Northwest Rainforest, Can...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
#11908323 - 01/26/10 09:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.
I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.
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rsinatra13
ⓅⓈⓘⓛⓞⒸⓨⓑⓘⓃ
Registered: 10/02/09
Posts: 1,738
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Keg]
#11908386 - 01/26/10 09:26 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Keg said: Sorry, didn't intend to mean it that way.
I meant that taking a drug without knowing how it could potentially interact with other drugs is not the brightest thing to do.
and i say thats good info
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FunkMasterShroom
Stranger
Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 1,379
Loc: Canada
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
#11908572 - 01/26/10 09:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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With syrian rue, harmaline is a rather short acting (though powerful considering) MAOI.. so typically there is little worry when it comes to the kinds of foods your gonna ingest.. By the time the trip is over, (and not likely you'll be eating much while high) it shouldn't be a problem.. as for adverse drug reactions with prescriptions/etc.. Definetly worth checking into more.. though in most cases tends to just potentiate the drugs, much as it does for psylocin/DMT..
-------------------- Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side. "Adapt. Adjust. Accommodate." "Professional help is being thought." - Bill Hicks It would be hilarious... if it wasn't so sad...
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fireshaman
Botanist
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 961
Last seen: 7 months, 3 days
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: rsinatra13]
#11908747 - 01/26/10 10:10 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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I would study Erowid for a more elaborite list...
Caapi and Rue do not act as long as some MAOIs.
However many prescription drugs do linger in the system for long periods of time...
Street drugs + MAOIS can be deadly too.
I would avoid all prescriptions and follow a good diet outlined on a site like Erowid.
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csrpj
no one's a stranger
Registered: 11/06/08
Posts: 983
Loc: bay area, california
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: fireshaman]
#11909012 - 01/26/10 10:50 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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that's great that you're careful with this.
protein supplements are fine. i can't think of any smart drugs that should negatively interact with MAOIs.
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Moo456
Pied_Piper
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
#11909590 - 01/27/10 01:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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You still want to avoid eating foods with monoamines for at least 12 hours though. Its well known that 5-htp causes much tolerance to DMT and makes DMT trips weaker. The level of these neurotransmitter-eusque substances gets out of control with a strong MAOI such as syrian rue can even cause severe headaches caused by blood pressure.
meat and dairy are heavy in monoamines FYI.
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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 06:58 PM)
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Moo456
Pied_Piper
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
#11909598 - 01/27/10 01:27 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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By the way Adderall and Concerta are a big NO with MAOI's. Theyre stimulants and could be deadly with an MAOI. I would avoid those for 2-3 days straight before touching an MAOI.
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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 03:12 AM)
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13.step
cynical bastard
Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 2,210
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Moo456]
#11910134 - 01/27/10 06:55 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO) and they specifically only inhibit the MAO subtype that brakes down tryptamines leaving the other one to do it's job in breaking down tyramine.So basically what I am saying is that there are no interactions with food while taking Syrian Rue or Caapi,you could eat aged cheese and chase it down with Chianti and add a salami sandwich to it all and you'll be fine.
Meds on the other hand are a different story.Meds that raise serotonin levels in the brain put you at risk of serotonine syndrome when combined with harmalas.This includes most antidepressants,DXM,Ecstasy and a lot of other drugs.Best to look them up to because there are safe drugs to combine with harmalas and there are potentially dangerous ones.It has been shown that the dose taken with Ayahuasca doesn't suppress MAO in the brain,only in the gut and liver if I remember correctly but I wouldn't want to risk it.
To sum it up,yes alkaloids form Syrian Rue inhibit MAO but they do so selectively and reversibly so their safety profile is a lot better then that of the substances conventionally referred to as MAOI's.Also they don't inhibit it to strong and it seems that they leave the brain alone in doing so.This being said be very careful if you decide to use them because they can still interact with meds to have potentially life-threatening consequences,serotonin-syndrome being the main concern,not hyper-tensive crisis.They are not recreational drugs and if you don't know what you are doing better leave them be.
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Not to be taken seriously by any means!
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Around In Circles
Eternally Recurring
Registered: 01/29/06
Posts: 1,118
Last seen: 11 days, 3 hours
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
#11910363 - 01/27/10 08:40 AM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't make it so hard on yourself.
200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice
100mg DMT + Orange Juice
=
Lift off.
No purge.
Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.
-------------------- "When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts We Die to Remember What We Live to Forget
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lurkmode
Stranger
Registered: 05/20/08
Posts: 1,375
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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13.step is right about the rima thing but screwing w/ ones body chemistry in this manner has always unnerved me and led me to try to stick to the maoi diet.
However, every time I've done mimosahuasca I've been left w/ a terrible headache that always appears after my post-trip meal. Regardless of how closely I stick to the diet it never fails. It could be that I'm always hungry afterwards and it's hard to not overeat. This could be the cause.
It's not a bad idea to stick to the maoi diet the day of - one healthy meal occasionally never hurt anybody
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Sheeno
Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 1,068
Loc: England
Last seen: 9 months, 19 days
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: Dr. Seuss]
#11912135 - 01/27/10 02:11 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dr. Seuss said: After discovering that it's possible to make Ayahuasca without tannins, I've done some research on it. The plan seems almost to good to be true; it takes less than a day and can be done with basic cooking procedures. The result is a 3-5 hour, DMT-driven trip without any violent vomiting.
However, there is a catch. Syrian rue is an MAOI inhibitor.
I have friends who are very interested, but I worry for their health. Quite a lot of people I know are prescribed things like Adderall and Concerta. I'm aware of the things one shouldn't do in combination with an MAOI, but I would like to know:
How long must one go without things that should be avoided with MAOIs before safely using one? How long afterward?
More specifically, common things like smart drugs, nasal decongestants, alcohol, protein supplements, etc...
I don't know as much as the people above and so am going to contribute nothing to this thread, but I am a little bit pedantic with acronyms. For the record, MAOI stands for Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor, so you should either call it an MAOI or an MAO inhibitor. Not an MAOI inhibitor.
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ZenClarity
SpiralOfChange
Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 951
Last seen: 13 years, 18 days
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Quote:
BrainFood said: Don't make it so hard on yourself.
200mg Tetrahydroharmine + Orange Juice
100mg DMT + Orange Juice
=
Lift off.
No purge.
Just be careful and make sure you have a sitter.
That easy eh? hmm.. interesting.
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Moo456
Pied_Piper
Registered: 03/03/06
Posts: 4,591
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Re: Oh no, it's an MAOI! [Re: 13.step]
#11912305 - 01/27/10 02:45 PM (14 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
13.step said: It's a well known fact that the alkaloids in Syrian rue aren't MAOI's,don't believe me?look it up yourself.They belong to the class of substances called RIMA's (reversible inhibitors of MAO)
Yes a reversible MAOI. The words are just arranged differently. The difference is it doesnt last as long as a non-reversible one. Trust me there are side effects if you eat enough of the wrong thing with syrian rue.
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Edited by Moo456 (01/27/10 03:32 PM)
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