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Invisiblegiza
Male
Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg?
    #11652260 - 12/14/09 10:31 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Chicken came first then became the egg which became the chicken which became the egg which became the chicken..get it???

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Offlinelearningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: giza]
    #11652269 - 12/14/09 10:32 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

evolution vs. creationism

if
Evolution: the egg
Creationism: the chicken


--------------------

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Invisiblegiza
Male
Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: learningtofly]
    #11652326 - 12/14/09 10:39 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

yes, nice one.

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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Loc: Northeast
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: giza]
    #11652400 - 12/14/09 10:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There are no eggs or chickens, only what we call eggs and chickens.  False question.

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Invisiblegiza
Male
Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: xFrockx]
    #11652415 - 12/14/09 10:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

True, because how does an egg know what a chicken is?

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OfflinexFrockx
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Registered: 09/17/06
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: giza]
    #11652419 - 12/14/09 10:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I meant more, how do we know what a chicken or egg is?

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Invisiblegiza
Male
Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 2,089
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: xFrockx]
    #11652449 - 12/14/09 11:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

how we know is how we know? haha no clue

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: giza]
    #11652462 - 12/14/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Depends on how you define an egg.  If the type of egg is defined by that which it came from - the chicken came first.  The the type of egg is defined by that which comes from it - the egg came first.

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InvisibleLakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 6,440
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: DieCommie]
    #11652677 - 12/14/09 11:43 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

:facepalm:

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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #11653154 - 12/15/09 02:03 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I have tons of questions about the chicken-egg problem.. maybe you guys can help.

1. Suppose the seed was first, and the tree is second. Ok we have a seed. Evolution claims this seed came together from random little atoms clustering together into molecules into DNA into proteints into life. DNA is a fractally structured language that only has a recombination of 4 elements TGCA. But the structure of the language is pure coincidence, its pure random chance, random events. Out of this randomly clustered seed a whole tree grows. Yes, the algorithm for growing a tree out of a tiny little seed, has been composed completely randomly. If this was true, if randomness can create DNA and this seed, then why can't humans do it? Why can't we even understand DNA? Why can't we calculate the algorithm for the seed growing into a tree?

2. Is it completely random chance and completely coincidence, that DNA, consisting out of the 4 elements T G C A which are on their turn consisting out of the 4 elements C H N O, carbon hydrgon, nitrogen and oxygen, earth water fire air.. the 4 elements of nature? Pure coincidence? Pure random chance?

3. In computer science, it is impossible to generate random numbers. We need to attach an external device, based on the decay of radioactivity, to reach an algorithm of nature we have not figured out yet to seed the random number, the random function, which is being generated. We need to jump through such hopes, just to get a random number, yet science claims, it is all randomly brought together. How do you explain the fact it's impossible to generate a random number?

4. The first premise of science is that universe is orderend, everything follows a fixed set of laws. How is the randomness in evolution, the random mutation a fixed law?

Any ideas?

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11653989 - 12/15/09 08:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

All false questions, you figure it out.

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Invisiblecyb3rtr0n
searching for truth
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 1,832
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: learningtofly]
    #11654000 - 12/15/09 08:51 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
evolution vs. creationism

if
Evolution: the egg
Creationism: the chicken




In evolution it could also be possible that the chicken came first.  Possibly the egg shell was a defence mechenism that evolved from the slime that usually covers newborns.


--------------------
LAGM v.2.024 Grow log

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OfflineAhimsa
µdose
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: giza]
    #11654547 - 12/15/09 11:05 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There is no first or last. All things are causal or they either don't exist at all or they will always remain as they are.
There are no other options. As soon as a thing is conceived, it is bound by this principle of causation. The very act of conception that produces these things, whether material or immaterial binds them to the law of cause and effect.

The chicken/egg as a process has evolved from a previous form. Through transformation and mutation it eventually reaches the present form... separating the two only creates the illusion of disconnectedness. In reality, the two entities are part of each other and of a much larger picture.

But whatever it be, chicken, egg or larger picture, it all remains causal. There are no non-causal entities.

So what came first? Your question probably!

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Offlinebigredkarlwithak
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Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 104
Last seen: 10 years, 19 days
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: xFrockx]
    #11654823 - 12/15/09 11:53 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

chickens arent the only animals that lay eggs so therefor its the egg that came first


--------------------
It's not the walls that are moving only your perception.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: bigredkarlwithak]
    #11654964 - 12/15/09 12:13 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

bigredkarlwithak said:
chickens arent the only animals that lay eggs so therefor its the egg that came first




Nice. :strokebeard2:

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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: xFrockx]
    #11656799 - 12/15/09 04:38 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
All false questions, you figure it out.



Sorry but "all false questions you figure it out" is not an argument, it's an insult. Read the rules please on valid argumentation.  Imagine your professor irl giving asking you 10 questions, and you respond "all false questions, you figure it out" isn't this a sign of showing no respect at all?! Damn wtf is your problem dude? Do you talk to people like that in real life? If find your behavior extremely insulting.

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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11656916 - 12/15/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

What came first, your being insulted, or the insulting comment? :cool:

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OfflineDiaboleros
Devil's spawn


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 1,856
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #11656938 - 12/15/09 05:01 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Very funny :mad2:

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Offlineandrewss
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Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Ahimsa]
    #11657075 - 12/15/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ahimsa said:
There is no first or last. All things are causal or they either don't exist at all or they will always remain as they are.
There are no other options. As soon as a thing is conceived, it is bound by this principle of causation. The very act of conception that produces these things, whether material or immaterial binds them to the law of cause and effect.

The chicken/egg as a process has evolved from a previous form. Through transformation and mutation it eventually reaches the present form... separating the two only creates the illusion of disconnectedness. In reality, the two entities are part of each other and of a much larger picture.

But whatever it be, chicken, egg or larger picture, it all remains causal. There are no non-causal entities.

So what came first? Your question probably!




:psychsplit:


--------------------
Jesus loves you.

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InvisibleRenamon
Stranger
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Registered: 03/25/09
Posts: 59
Re: Which came first ,Chicken? or Egg? [Re: Diaboleros]
    #11657281 - 12/15/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

«1.Evolution claims this seed came together from random little atoms clustering together into molecules into DNA into proteints into life.»

No, it doesn't. It seems that you're confusing abiogenesis with evolution. These two subjects deals with different questions.

«DNA is a fractally structured language that only has a recombination of 4 elements TGCA.»

You can call it a language, but it's not.

«But the structure of the language is pure coincidence, its pure random chance, random events. Out of this randomly clustered seed a whole tree grows. Yes, the algorithm for growing a tree out of a tiny little seed, has been composed completely randomly.»

What words in "evolution by natural selection" you don't understand? Tip: it's the word between the second one and the fourth one.


«If this was true, if randomness can create DNA and this seed, then why can't humans do it? Why can't we even understand DNA?»

We are creating DNA in lab (DNa probes) and we're strating to have a good understanding, but a lot of work is still to come!


«Is it completely random chance and completely coincidence, that DNA, consisting out of the 4 elements T G C A which are on their turn consisting out of the 4 elements C H N O, carbon hydrgon, nitrogen and oxygen, earth water fire air.. the 4 elements of nature? Pure coincidence? Pure random chance?»

Yes, for the same reason that there is 4 seasons, 4 states of matter, etc...

«The first premise of science is that universe is orderend, everything follows a fixed set of laws. How is the randomness in evolution, the random mutation a fixed law?»

The law of randomness.

Any ideas?



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