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OfflineGrizzly Adams
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Registered: 10/12/09
Posts: 139
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Salvia dorrii
    #11507185 - 11/22/09 08:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This seems to be the only other salvia i can find that is psychedelic...

yet i can hardly find any information on it at all... there is a decent wikipedia page on it. but erowid doesn't list it, there are 0 trip reports for it, and there is nothing in the history of this site that even mentions it.

i think i may have found a couple sites that sell seeds... but im not to sure how to go about growing these.

does anyone have any information on this rare herb?

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Invisiblenitelife
Ethno Man
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Registered: 09/26/09
Posts: 383
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: Grizzly Adams]
    #11507236 - 11/22/09 09:03 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

There is lots of other salvias that have potential in the psychedelic world.
-S. apiana
-S. argentea
-S. coccinea
-S. divinorum
-S. dorrii
-S. elegans
-S. farinacea
-S. greggii
-S. guaranitica
-S. lyrata
-S. melissodora
-S. plebia
-S. splendens
-S. superba

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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,451
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: nitelife]
    #11509536 - 11/23/09 09:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I have neat stuff and have been seeking viable Salvia dorii (aka greyball sage) seeds for ages.

It's my understanding that most Salvias contain terpenoids.

Effects tend to range from antinflammatory, to tired nausea, to psychedelia.

(General info on Salvias)
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11320811/fpart/1/vc/1
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9794646

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Invisiblejollyj
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Registered: 06/02/11
Posts: 3
Loc: WA
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: Grizzly Adams]
    #14552545 - 06/02/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I am new here and just joined so that i could respond to this thread.
I was camping in SE Washington last week and I was collecting plants for distillation (Artemesia tridentata, Achillea millefolium). The Salvia dorrii caught my attention as it was in bloom and has a wonderfully minty aroma to it. After identifying it I decided to harvest it for distillation as well.

The next day I garbled enough of it to fill my 5L flask with the leaves and flowers twice. After this my hands were quite caked in resin and I was feeling rather light headed so I stowed my gear and went to bed. I layed in bed and felt rather lackadaisical yet unable to sleep. So I took 1mL of Piper methysticum and this set me off. It felt as if the room was slightly spinning and kind of narcotic like, similar to LSA (my experience at least) but without the visuals or nausea. These feeling subsided after about 1.5 to 2 hours and I was left with an incredible dry mucous membrane. On the bright side the 2 distillations yielded about 5-6mL of essential oil.

The smell of the plant and its essential oil reminded me of the distillate i have gotten from Cannabis spp distillations. So I am guessing that this plants essential oil is high in what ever mono- or sesquiterpene that Cannabis spp is high in. They both produce a sort of hypnotic sedative effect when taken, although the Salvia dorrii has a much more stronger effect.

I am curious where you found info saying that this is a psychoactive herb? I have been having trouble finding much info on it except for a little bit of ethnobotanical info.

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Invisiblefngbronco
Monkey Man
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Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: jollyj]
    #14553962 - 06/03/11 01:28 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Would cuttings of the salvia dorrii be obtainable for cultivation and further experimentation?


--------------------
I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need.

Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not.    -fngbronco

Pill Divider Agar Tek

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Invisiblesko0bydo0
Scooby Doo
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Registered: 06/07/10
Posts: 869
Loc: Right here, Maybe there!
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: fngbronco]
    #14554274 - 06/03/11 04:48 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Cool post :aliendance:


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:shineon:


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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 27,646
Loc: Flag
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: jollyj]
    #14554278 - 06/03/11 04:51 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Id be interested in learning more about this plant.

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Invisiblejollyj
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Registered: 06/02/11
Posts: 3
Loc: WA
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: MisterMuscaria] * 1
    #14554868 - 06/03/11 10:06 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

@fngbronco: I don't know. I don't have much experience with growing the arid soil plants of the sagebrush step. From what I have read about this species it can be propagated with cuttings of the young soft shoots. The problem with trying to propagate where I am is the lack of sun and heat. I will try to get some seeds in a couple of weeks if I have time, as I am moving.

I will be making a tincture of this as soon as a friend has time to make me some more 90% EtOH. I will report on its effects. As of now I do have a spirit (residual EO from condenser & sep funnel washed with 90% EtOH) that I will experiment with internally. I will post experience reports on that (I guess in this thread?). I am just now recovering from the dried out mucous membrane and consequential sinus congestion from the high dose exposure.

One of the few articles I could find on this plant, other than habitat re-population studies, was this: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942205007041

Are there any chemists/pharmacologist/pharmacognosist on the forum that can decipher anything significant from these unique chemical constituents? I know they are not contained in my EO, but just curious.

Here is a picture of the plant in flower:

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Invisiblefngbronco
Monkey Man
Male


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 2,877
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: jollyj]
    #14556403 - 06/03/11 04:24 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I could see that growin very well here in Idaho, though I've never stumbled across one in the desert. Will you :pm: me if you get any cuttings or seeds?


--------------------
I challenge you to challenge yourself more! When you feel complacent and ready to hang it up, challenge yourself to get over it! If you fail, don't look at it as you didn't succeed, look at it as you would a rock face you're trying to climb. Stand back, wayyyy back, and look at it and plot another path. If you can't find one, shuffle down the way a little, a little change of scenery or a view from a different angle may give you the insight you need.

Anything I state is relayed information from a friend of a friend and should be viewed as completely fictitious. I do not partake in any illegal or grey-area-of-the-law activities, but do have lots of friends who may or may not.    -fngbronco

Pill Divider Agar Tek

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Invisiblejollyj
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Registered: 06/02/11
Posts: 3
Loc: WA
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: fngbronco]
    #14556456 - 06/03/11 04:39 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

I can definitely do that fngbronco. Not a problem!

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Offlinejingus

Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 1,669
Loc: Oregon, U.S. Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: Grizzly Adams]
    #14560491 - 06/04/11 03:03 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grizzly Adams said:
This seems to be the only other salvia i can find that is psychedelic...






Salvia splendens


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Offlinejingus

Registered: 05/04/09
Posts: 1,669
Loc: Oregon, U.S. Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: jingus]
    #14568160 - 06/06/11 05:46 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Will: You recently conducted an experiment to test the putative psychoactivity of another Salvia-Salvia splendens. How was the experiment set up and what were the results?

Daniel: The first published description of what we now refer to as salvinorin A appeared in a 1982 paper by the Mexican phytochemist, Alfredo Ortega. At that time it was simply called salvinorin. In his paper, Ortega points out that salvinorin is structurally similar to compounds that had previously been isolated from the common ornamental bedding plant, Salvia splendens. This caught my eye early on in the days of my work with Salvia divinorum, and I was curious to see if Salvia splendens might produce any interesting effects similar to that of Salvia divinorum. So I purchased several Salvia splendens plants from a local nursery and tried smoking the dried leaves. After smoking a huge amount, I did not notice any effects other than a slight headache. I then made an extract of the leaves using the same procedure that I had been using to extract salvinorin A from Salvia divinorum. I experimented with this extract several times, using ever-increasing amounts, but was still unable to detect any effects. At this point I was convinced that Salvia splendens was inactive. Then a year or two latter, I received e-mail from someone who claimed that he and a friend of his had tried Salvia splendens and found it to be active in very low doses. He sounded quite excited about his discovery and started posting messages on the Internet about it. He claimed that the leaves produced a sort of relaxing, anxiolytic, emotional-blunting effect. Obviously, these effects are not at all like Salvia divinorum. The effects he associated with Salvia splendens are rather like those of ValiumĀ®; it was not said to be a visionary herb by any stretch of the imagination. While I realize that such effects have their place, I personally do not find them very interesting. Nevertheless, this report intrigued me enough that I decided to try Salvia splendens again. Interestingly enough, when I did, I experienced exactly the kind of effects that he had described. However, for some reason, I was unable to experience these effects again on subsequent attempts, even though I tried using larger amounts of leaf. As this information was being posted in various places on the Internet, quite a few other people started experimenting with it. People's reports were mixed. Many people were reporting that they were experiencing sedative or anxiolytic effect, but others didn't seem to feel anything.

Because the reports were so inconsistent, I began to wonder if the "placebo effect" might be responsible for many of the effects people were experiencing, including my own. To investigate this, I decided to conduct an informal double-blind experiment using volunteers from the Salvia divinorum E-mailing List. This is an e-mail discussion forum I founded a couple of years ago, which is dedicated to Salvia divinorum and other psychoactive Labiatae. I located a source for a large amount of Salvia splendens leaf. In order to determine if this material would be suitable for use in the experiment, I sent samples of the doses I intended to use for the study to three people who had already tried Salvia splendens several times and claimed to be able to distinguish its effects. Unanimously they concluded that this material was indeed active and thus should be quite suitable for the experiment. I then selected a placebo herb. I chose Viola odorata leaf, because it was the most similar herb in appearance and texture that I could come up with that did not have effects that were likely to be confused with those that were being associated with Salvia splendens. I then sent out coded packets containing pre-measured doses of Salvia splendens and the placebo herb to 61 volunteers. They were instructed to ingest the samples and then to report any effects experienced on a questionnaire that had been provided to them. People were allowed to choose between smoking the herb samples or ingesting them sublingually. Some people chose to do both. So I collected two sets of data based on method of ingestion.

The purpose of the experiment was to determine if people would be able to distinguish Salvia splendens from the inactive placebo herb. If Salvia splendens does produce a significant effect, this should show up in the data obtained from the questionnaires. Unfortunately, only 31 of the volunteers completed the experiment and returned the questionnaires, so the amount of information I had available to work with was relatively small. Nevertheless, I think that the results are meaningful. The results of the experiment showed that most people reported no effects from either herb. Of those that did report "Salvia splendens-type effects" (about 35%), the numbers were essentially equal for Salvia splendens and the placebo. This suggests that Salvia splendens is no more effective than the placebo in producing "Salvia splendens-type effects." This is definitely the case for the specific materials and doses used in this particular study.

After sharing the results of this study publicly, I received quite a few surprisingly emotional reactions from people who insisted that Salvia splendens was indeed quite active and that my study must be flawed. I got the feeling that people felt I was attacking their integrity by suggesting that they were victims of the placebo effect. It is clear that this herb produces effects in many people when they know that they are taking it. The fact that many people are convinced of its effects is compelling. The problem is that the activity seems to disappear when people don't know what it is they are taking. The information available suggests that the effects people have been reporting are probably due to psychosomatic factors rather than a true pharmacological action of the herb; however, I don't mean to suggest that this small study in any way closes the book on the pharmacology of Salvia splendens. Further research may very well identify some sort of activity that was not observed in this particular experiment.





Daniel Siebert Interview


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Offlineanonym
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Registered: 09/24/10
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Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: jollyj]
    #14571784 - 06/06/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fngbronco said:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942205007041

Are there any chemists/pharmacologist/pharmacognosist on the forum that can decipher anything significant from these unique chemical constituents?




now, i have no background in chemistry/pharmacology, minus the bit of research i've done on chemical structures and receptor sites.

but that chemical you linked (salvidorol) looked a bit like an opiate in structure to me. look below for examples.

salvidorol:


nemorone:


nemorone is from a a related species to dorrii, called salvia nemorosa. nemorone is a known opiate and has a similar structure to morphine.

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InvisibleIeponumos
Mycophile/Phytophile
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Registered: 09/02/09
Posts: 4,850
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: anonym]
    #14574910 - 06/07/11 02:57 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

anonym said:
Quote:

fngbronco said:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0031942205007041

Are there any chemists/pharmacologist/pharmacognosist on the forum that can decipher anything significant from these unique chemical constituents?




now, i have no background in chemistry/pharmacology, minus the bit of research i've done on chemical structures and receptor sites.

but that chemical you linked (salvidorol) looked a bit like an opiate in structure to me. look below for examples.

salvidorol:


nemorone:


nemorone is from a a related species to dorrii, called salvia nemorosa. nemorone is a known opiate and has a similar structure to morphine.




Perhaps then it has similar activity to Salvinornin A, which if I recall correctly acts on the mu-opioid receptor.


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]

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Invisiblecc2
Mush

Registered: 05/15/10
Posts: 2,611
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: Ieponumos]
    #14575134 - 06/07/11 03:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ieponumos said:if I recall correctly acts on the mu-opioid receptor.




it acts as a kappa opioid receptor agonist

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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Registered: 10/27/12
Posts: 8,422
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: Grizzly Adams] * 1
    #27807218 - 06/05/22 04:40 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

hey. was going to make my own thread still might but decided to search first and this looks like the only thread so probably nobody can help. highly attracted to this bush and attempting to germinate again if anyone has any tips they would offer itd be much appreciated. had no success in the past with these i will let you guys know if anything works. if i can't figure it out i think i will go scatter the rest of my seeds around in the wild patches.
the rumored "psychedelic" effects for me are both stimulating and relaxing while mild and subtle, feels somewhat similar to divinorum but not as spacey cerebral. lasting max ~45 minutes from onset, not intense at all but it does seem to have a building type effect where if you smoke it again later it adds on to the remaining stuff still in your system(?). if you smoke on it throughout the day you will get high make sure to stay hydrated.
smoking 1-3 leaves is an active dose, any more or repeated use in the same day can be uncomfortable and i sometimes  get a tight burning feeling/pain in my gut, so i haven't tried more than a few leaves at a time, and like 20 in a day. i think you can overdose fairly easily(?) and i suspect it would mostly harm something near the stomach and kidneys(?)
if you smoked it everyday for a few days you would start to notice a tolerance.
1 or two leaves added to a cup of tea is relaxing and really nice for relief of cold and flu-like symptoms but smoking alone or mixed with tobakko is the best way to experience it


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Invisibledurian_2008
Cornucopian Eating an Elephant
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Registered: 04/02/08
Posts: 17,451
Loc: Raccoon City
Re: Salvia dorrii [Re: MadMuncher]
    #27808501 - 06/06/22 03:03 PM (1 year, 9 months ago)

Semi ripe hardwood cuttings might be put under a humidity dome, and vented once daily.

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