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Invisible7734591202
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 724
Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims.
    #11070860 - 09/16/09 03:04 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So I recently began to study the Qa'ran and am deeply disturbed by what I have found.

Islam is not a religion of violence, and oppression like we are meant to believe, the Qa'ran doesnt even insist on converting people, it states that if one hears the word of God and does not believe do not bother because they will deny what they know to be true.

Again we are taught to believe that Muslims fight and are aggressors because they hate infidels and the sin that they commit, however this too is forbidden the Qa'ran states that "Do not fight unless you are opressed and do not be an agressor  for god hates aggressors, but God hates opression more than aggression.  IF you are opressed than fight until the opression ceases and God is victorious, if they do not allow you to worship in our temple slay them."

This religion is not one of violence it is stated in the first chapter that the god of Islam is the same as the God of Christians and Jews and that they should worship amongst each other, yet the christians and jews would never allow this and this is why they fight.

You see we share the same holy places as them yet while they would not forbid us from worshipping in thier temple (unless they feel that Christians or Jews are oppressing them which they are) we would forbid them this is oppression.

IMO their fight is just.

I feel so shitty about this whole situation, because I now like Muslims a whole lot more than Jews or Christians, and the fact that young Americans and middle easterners are dying over things like this really gets my goat.


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[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,697
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11070872 - 09/16/09 03:06 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Their religion is just. That doesn't necessarily makes their fight just as well.

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11070880 - 09/16/09 03:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

:rolleyes:

Islam is the most dangerous violent and disgusting religion on the planet.  What their holy book says is irrelevent, what the billion of them do is.

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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,697
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: DieCommie]
    #11070889 - 09/16/09 03:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
.  What their holy book says is irrelevent, what the billion of them do is.



Word. Although it's not that many actually fighting that abstract Western Civilization thingy.

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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: DieCommie]
    #11070896 - 09/16/09 03:11 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
:rolleyes:

Islam is the most dangerous violent and disgusting religion on the planet.  What their holy book says is irrelevent, what the billion of them do is.



What do they do that is so terrible?

Fighting for access to holy sites or getting Holy land back that was taken from you by Christians to give to Jews by force?

Ya that sounds pretty terrible to me.:rolleyes:


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[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: koraks]
    #11070913 - 09/16/09 03:14 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

You see we share the same holy places as them yet while they would not forbid us from worshipping in thier temple




Not true. Non-muslims aren't allowed in Mecca

Quote:

Non-Muslims are not permitted to enter Mecca by Saudi law.[1][45]

The Saudi government uses the following verse as a Qur’an confirmation for this law; however, there are other interpretations to this verse (in particular, People of the Book would usually not be regarded as pagans):[46]

    "O you who believe(in Allâh's Oneness and His Messenger Muhammad صلي الله عليه و سلم)! Verily, the Mushrikun(polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allâh, and in the Message of Muhammad صلي الله عليه و سلم) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al-Masjiadal-Harâm (at Makkah) after this year; and if you fear poverty, Allâh will enrich you if He wills, out of His Bounty. Surely, Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Wise." -- Qur’an, 9:28

The existence of cities closed to non-Muslims and the mystery of the Hajjs aroused intense curiosity in people from around the world. Some have disguised themselves as Muslims and entered the city of Mecca and then the Grand Mosque to experience the Hajj for themselves. The first to leave a record was Ludovico di Varthema of Bologna in 1503.[47] The most famous account of a foreigner's journey to Mecca is A Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Mecca and Medina, written by Sir Richard Francis Burton.[48] Burton traveled as a Qadiriyyah Sufi from Afghanistan; his name, as he signed it in Arabic below his frontispiece portrait for The Jew The Gypsy and El Islam was al-Hajj 'Abdullah.[citation needed] Individuals who use fake certificates of Muslim identity to enter may be arrested and prosecuted by Saudi authorities.[49]




Any religion can justify violence by picking and choosing verses.

Also, many Muslims feel anybody but Muslims (good Muslims) will go to hell, and use the Koran to justify executing converts.

I have lived in 2 Muslim countries before - I know more than what the TV tells me.

Also, there is plenty of Muslim oppression of Christians. When Filipino maids work in Muslim countries, the customs agents make them smash their statues of Christian saints and other idols.

The street goes both ways.

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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Green_T]
    #11070960 - 09/16/09 03:23 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Great post, thank you.

I just wanted to throw that out there that the message of Islam is not what we are meant to believe however of course there are going to be people who take the word and bend it to fit here own agendas.

BTW I have only read The Cow as of right now.

If anyone has any other relevant verses please share as I am trying to gain a better insight into this alien religion.


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11070986 - 09/16/09 03:29 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

7734591202 said:
What do they do that is so terrible?





Lets just forget Israel/Palestine since thats a loaded topic.  They are the common denominator in nearly every single conflict on the planet.  Genocide in Sudan, constant fighting in India, Sir Lanka, Chechnya, Balkans, Philippines, the list goes on.  And of course their terrorism abroad is far from localized on the US and the west.  In every single region they have a presence, they are fighting with their neighbors.  Maybe sometimes they are in the right, but the odds are just not good that they are always in the right.  Then look at their internal political structures - Islamic law and a closed political process, executing drug dealers/users, executing homosexuals and rape victims, oppressed women with no rights or freedoms.  Its easy as it is to cite the horrors they commit on other cultures but the real atrocities are committed on their own people.  The biggest victims of Islam are in fact Muslims.  People often say that this isn't the 'real' Islam since its not supported in the Quran.  Irrelevant, they do it in the name of Islam - what an old book says doesn't get them or their culture off the hook.

Now it wasn't always like this.  If you came to me a thousand years ago I would agree that Christianity is the oppressive backwards religion/society and Islam is the liberal, scientific and inclusive society.  That was the golden age of Islam and it shows that the religion need not be as destructive as it is now - there is hope for them, they may be able to liberalize and preserve their heritage.  But at the moment, this is not the case.

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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: DieCommie]
    #11071016 - 09/16/09 03:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Good points.

I have no rebuttal.


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11071021 - 09/16/09 03:36 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

It is true, there is some beautiful poetry in the Koran, just as there are beautiful verses in the bible. Thomas Jefferson even had a copy!

Unfortunately, many of the verses are interpreted in extreme ways, which often lead to oppression. For example, there is no place in the Koran where it says women need to wear a burkha, yet clerics often force women to wear them. There is no Koranic verse that says music should be banned, yet the Taliban banned it.

Also, the Koran is much like the bible: most of it was written after the fact, there is no intact old version, some of it is ambiguous, and it has been edited like no other. In fact, because of the nature of written Arabic, some scholars believe verses that say things like "75 virgins" actually mean "75 white grapes" (to make wine with in heaven), but have been lost in translation.

You also cannot ignore the fact that Mohammed was also a general, and this is reflected in several Koran verses.

164 Jihad Verses

I was told the following by someone speaking about Islam at my school

"In Christianity, you are born in sin, and Jesus lets you out of sin. It is like being in a hole, and Jesus is the ladder that helps you out. In Islam, you are born pure, but you risk falling in sin. Mohammed is like a bridge that prevents you from falling in the hole"

Good for you, for expanding your mind and looking beyond the propaganda :thumbup:. Just for the record, I am as much against Islam as I am against all organized religions, and for the same reasons.

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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Green_T]
    #11071092 - 09/16/09 03:46 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Green_T said:
For example, there is no place in the Koran where it says women need to wear a burkha, yet clerics often force women to wear them.




Actually in the cow God says that "Women have rights as well as men even though men have an advantage over them".

Which I took to mean that they should have equal rights even though men have a physical advantage over them, divorce is even permitted by the Qa'ran.

Muhammad was a military leader but from what I understand about the wars he fought was that the Meccan establishment wanted to put an end to his message and civilization at Medina (in which Jews Christians and Muslims lived together).

The first 4 Caliphs of the Muslim world that followed Muhammad were even elected democratically until Ali was murdered and the Umayyad dynasty was established.


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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Invisibleniteowl
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Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
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Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Green_T]
    #11071244 - 09/16/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I am as much against Islam as I am against all organized religions, and for the same reasons.




Agreed.

All religions are virtually the same at their core

Organized religion is a scam


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: niteowl]
    #11071252 - 09/16/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i'd rather have it organized than disorganized


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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Registered: 05/30/08
Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #11071254 - 09/16/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Why would that be?

You dont feel they are more of a threat united than dispersed?


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11071255 - 09/16/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

7734591202 said:
So I recently began to study the Qa'ran and am deeply disturbed by what I have found.

Islam is not a religion of violence, and oppression like we are meant to believe, the Qa'ran doesnt even insist on converting people, it states that if one hears the word of God and does not believe do not bother because they will deny what they know to be true.





"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you."

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful (9:5)

Sura 9:29-31 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book [Christians and Jews], until they pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the Son of God ... God's curse be on them."

Sura 5:36-38  "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the hereafter, except for those who repent before they fall into your power. In that case, know that God is oft-forgiving, most merciful. O ye who believe! Do your duty to God. Seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in His cause, that ye may prosper."

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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11071267 - 09/16/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

7734591202 said:
Why would that be?

You dont feel they are more of a threat united than dispersed?




i don't feel threatened by any religion at all


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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Posts: 724
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #11071279 - 09/16/09 04:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

pris LOL I guess I havent gotten that far yet.


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

Edited by 7734591202 (09/16/09 04:25 PM)

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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
Male


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Registered: 09/16/06
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Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11071283 - 09/16/09 04:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

why indeed


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Invisible7734591202
It's all a fuckin joke.
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Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #11071288 - 09/16/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Ya I edited it.

Rather obvious really stupid question.

BTW I am going to remove my 0 rating of you.:stoned:


--------------------
[quote]Tea said:
Dude how can you say such a thing. Ive literally read exact words about killing Americans within the Koran.......[/quote]
[quote]night_owl said::facepalm:[/quote]

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: Judeo Christian agenda and the opression of Muslims. [Re: 7734591202]
    #11071292 - 09/16/09 04:27 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

7734591202 said:
pris LOL I guess I havent gotten that far yet.





there's a lot of 'kill the infedel' shit in the koran

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