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N3v3R
Student
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 9
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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some questions with my first attempt...wish me luck ;)
#10888396 - 08/19/09 08:27 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am wondering if its necessary to boil my rye grain first before I add it to jars in the pressure cooker. As for rinsing, is RO needed as I live in the country with well water through my system. The reason I ask this is because I thought the reason of the pressure cooker was to sterilize the contaminants in the grain. Is this step needed or is it just for better results? I have what i think to get this started stated below, maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong. The rest of the supplies I will be buying as the jars colonize. I'd also like to thank everyone here who has helped answer many, many questions indirectly. peace
-pressure cooker -rye grain -mason jars -spore syringe
*edit* as I read the related questions another question popped in my head. I bought the 1/2 pint mason jars thinking that the pressure cooker could hold 16 as opposed to 7. I wasn't exactly thinking clearly. I assume the jars, since they are punctured can't be submerged in the water. Am I correct to believe this? So my qustion is should i return the jars and buy some quart jars instead. My plan is to transfer from jar to jar so I'd like to be as efficient as possible. thx again.
Edited by N3v3R (08/23/09 02:37 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: N3v3R]
#10888408 - 08/19/09 08:32 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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You'll get better results if you wash and boil the grain before you strain and jar it. some older methods don't use all those steps but the state of the art is to do it like that. Great explanation in these videos.
You will have about an inch of water- half pint jars are fine, cover the tops with foil as shown in the videos.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: N3v3R]
#10888824 - 08/19/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
N3v3R said:I'd like to be as efficient as possible. thx again.
Totally agreed on the boil - I also strongly recommend a 24 hour soak first. This is what I've settled on, over the years - let me know if it's too ADHD to comprehend...
I always inoculate rye/gypsum spawn bags (with about 4-5 quarts of soaked and boiled rye) directly with (a lot of - 7-10ccs) ms syringe and spawn each bag straight to coir in 12 quart/11.4 litre tubs, then case with jiffy mix. The bags hold a lot of spawn and use much more efficient space of the PC, in my case. One coir brick (hydrated/pseudo-pasteurized with a gallon of boiling water in a 5 gallon bucket - then allowed to cool) is good for about 2-2.5 tubs (always check for field capacity). Jiffy mix can be replaced with any other decent casing tek.
For fruiting, I personally use an ultrasonic humidifier with a 10k resister wired in series with the vibrator/element, then set the main dial to about halfway. That is piped directly into a large shotgun or martha box. With the new ush humidifiers, this seems to result in almost perfect humidification and FAE, imho - and it lasts about 4-5 days between refills (you must install the 10k resistor - or everything will FAIL - If you are not mentally/electrically qualified to install it, have someone else do it - or just disregard this entire post;). I also hang a compact florescent light on a 12on/12off timer. IME/O, it is the quickest and most effortless/simple (but not the cheapest) way to go and get decent yields. The ush's usually have to be replaced every year or two, if you don't maintain them perfectly.
After the first (or sometimes second) flush, I just fill my tubs up halfway with tap water and leave it to flush again. They usually soak most of it up overnight. If the casings look too skanky after the second flush, I usually toss em. It doesn't seem worth the trouble to me to try so hard for subsequent flushes, the way I do things (with coir). I'm very happy with 2-3 flushes personally (with coir). Then again, I am pretty lazy. Plus, they get way too big to fit in the dehydrator on the third/fourth flush.
I do still go to pretty good lengths for sterility/cleanliness though (glove boxes, lysol in the air, flame needles, wipe 70% iso alcohol everywhere including hands/gloves). That seems to be the only place where you can't cut any corners...
Just my .02 - things to consider - extremely lazy person's tek...
P.S. I have spawned quart jars to bags and also directly inoculated bags side by side several times. The directly inoculated bag, shaken at about 15%-20%, always wins (in my experiments). You may want to get a couple of smaller jar grows under your belt first though, before trying something like this. I did start with cakes - and did watch _and_ read everything I could from RR first - That should be a given (and considered a requirement). The videos are absolutely worth the money...
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N3v3R
Student
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 9
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10890108 - 08/19/09 02:35 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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thx you guys..this is very appreciated. I've already rinsed numerous times and atm I'm soaking for the recommended 24 hrs. After this I will as RR mentioned in his great video bring to a boil for 10 minutes...correct? [I'm going to order RR's video on amazon btw...the least I can do to give back what I've already soaked in]
Now I have many more questions...thx lol. So what has me very interested now are these spawn bags. I have found some empty spawn bags on ebay. Here is the description, maybe you can tell me if they are the right kind and what i should expect for yield;
Quote:
An autoclavable, patented spawn incubation bag with a microporous filter patch that allows gas exchange but precludes the passage of contaminants. Measuring 12"x19" x8 inches, these bags are gusseted on both sides, allowing them to hold more material. Up to 6 pounds! Widely used by mushroom growers throughout the world. We use them for cultures and for growing oyster with a straw mixture. We seal with an impulse sealer, but many just tie to seal them. Reusable in most circumstances.
Now that I already started the process, providing I order these bags could I start with the jars and transfer them to these bags like I would have from jar to jar? Or should I order more syringes since I'm just starting out and don't have a personal stash?
- Do I need an impulse sealer or can I tie them like they claim? - These bags are safe to put into the pressure cooker? - How much water would I add in the pressure cooker with jars or bags? - Would they be submerged? - Could sunshine mix be used instead of coir being as it's already sterile? - Is gypsum is mixed with the rye grain? If so what ratio? - What type of place would carry gypsum? [I live in quite far from civilization lol]
...and again....thx for everything. My first trip I will dedicate to you guys
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: N3v3R]
#10890639 - 08/19/09 03:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I personally use these bags and put my own silicon on them for injection ports. I use a big spot of silicone and put clear tape over it after PC'ing and let it cool/harden overnight. It's better to buy from the sponsors anyway...
http://sporeworks.com/store/product.php?productid=16248&cat=0&page=1
Transferring the jars to bags is fine - or you can just continue what ever you had planned for now. I like injecting the bags most because it's a little faster and gives less chance for contams. I tended to try things a few different ways when I first started. There's plenty of other good ways though - and I'm not knocking transfers. Different things work better for different people. You may want to keep things simpler if you're just starting out.
I don't know anything about sunshine mix but you can get gypsum from a feed store or order it online. If it's peletized, just dissolve it in water first (I filter out the big chunks).
I just buy a bunch of rubber bands to twist and hold the bags closed (you can only use them once though). You can also use metal bailing wire from the hardware store (re-usable). Some people really like impulse sealers too. The bags from sporeworks are fine in the PC. Nothing should be completely submerged - but enough water so it won't evaporate/dry out. Most of this stuff is pretty easy to figure out - go do some more reading. RR's videos explain most of this too. I lurked on this forum for years before starting - but a few good days of randomly reading everything on the cultivation forum should get you going in the right direction...
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10890727 - 08/19/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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yes you could do a grain to grian transfer into a bag, though youd have to be very carefull with your sterilie procedures, make sure you bag and jars are well sanitized with 70% ipa before transfering.
you dont need an impulse sealer, RR uses copper wire to tie his bags shut. Its in the DVD, he deals with using bags in 1 of the sections, i think he using woodchip substrates but the same i imagine can be applied to grain or other bulk subs.
Oh and he doesnt seal his bags when pressure cooking, he uses tyvek sleeves and seals after inoculating.
You will understand when you get the DVD. Money well spent. I got it :-)
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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anonjon
Partially Right
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10890739 - 08/19/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I found it useful to go to advanced search and just put in the keywords of my question and choose rogerrabbit as the poster and sort by date.
This guy has answered every question you could possibly think of and in a concise way.
For example my cat learned to how to cook grain to optimal hydration by searching for posts by rr that had the keywords rinse, boil, or drain. I'm not trying to suck up or inflate this guys ego, but it's a really easy way to get good info fast...
My cat is new to grain and tried mycobags and quart jars and he likes working with the jars better.
Do a search on g2g, grain to grain transfer, still air glovebox, with rogerrabbit as poster. I think that's what you're looking for.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: anonjon]
#10890782 - 08/19/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: I found it useful to go to advanced search and just put in the keywords of my question and choose rogerrabbit as the poster and sort by date.
This guy has answered every question you could possibly think of and in a concise way.
For example my cat learned to how to cook grain to optimal hydration by searching for posts by rr that had the keywords rinse, boil, or drain. I'm not trying to suck up or inflate this guys ego, but it's a really easy way to get good info fast...
My cat is new to grain and tried mycobags and quart jars and he likes working with the jars better.
Do a search on g2g, grain to grain transfer, still air glovebox, with rogerrabbit as poster. I think that's what you're looking for.
thats usually my first method of searching. Pretty much guarenteed to give clear informative an correct info.
It also helps to pay attention to dates aswel.
The trusted cultivator button is also a good way to search.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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SeedArt
Fighter
Registered: 07/05/08
Posts: 10
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: veda_sticks]
#10891507 - 08/19/09 05:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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This is my first time using bags, no filters patch bags with HEPA filter, just polypropylene bags and i put them a homemade filter (a plastic cylinder covered with some kind wet washcloth for babies)
I'm using vermiculite and corn for substrate.
Temp 30ºC sometimes higher and some time lower
spent 3 days since i inoculate and no myc at sight.
One thing that concerns me is that every day i check out my bags exposes to light, well i see no myc but maybe is not good i think.
Other thing is that i dint know how much oxygen need or there is too much.
Well Thank you beautiful people.
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N3v3R
Student
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 9
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: SeedArt]
#10911876 - 08/22/09 12:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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well thanks for all the help and i took the advice and read up like a motherfucker here. I feel like i've been at mushroom school for a week.
I have a few questions atm. I'm going with a martha stewart fruiting chamber system [couldn't find that but came across something similar...specs are 4TIER 27X60"] I was wondering what kind of humidifier i should get? I see there are some with cool air mist. What would you guys recommend for a say 2 such systems...with the possibility of adding these mini greenhouses later. thx y'all
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anonjon
Partially Right
Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: N3v3R]
#10915754 - 08/22/09 09:22 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Should take 1 cool-mist ultrasonic for each of those units.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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sage1o1
Warrior
Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 314
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: anonjon]
#10915878 - 08/22/09 09:35 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Poster, just make sure it's a cool mist, impeller type of humidifier.
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N3v3R
Student
Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 9
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: sage1o1]
#10917593 - 08/23/09 02:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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thx for your input. there are sooo many different kinds of these. any model #'s would be nice...price is not important. I would prefer something that I wouldn't need to babysit everyday...big capacity is what i would like. Whats a impeller type anyway? Some threads have mentioned that a cool mist is fine alone and others say a humidifier is much needed...very conflicting i must say. Are these to go in the Martha or out....again these varying thoughts are making me question way to much lol.
Either some pics or links to good humidifiers and cool misters would be perfect. I did search the site before posting but there are so many opinions that vary and i really don't want to fuck up my first batch. I've done everything to the T...btw thx RR and the gang....much appreciated
take care //N3v3R//
Edited by N3v3R (08/23/09 02:41 AM)
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organicfruitveg
Stranger
Registered: 08/23/09
Posts: 3
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: some questions with my first attempt...wish me luck ;) [Re: N3v3R]
#10918177 - 08/23/09 06:07 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Those who are not aware of contamination while cultivation please visit following link for the same -- http://organic-fruit-vegetable.enukkad.com/2009/08/23/did-you-know-how-you-contaminated-your-mushroom-crop/
You can subscribe to this http://organic-fruit-vegetable.enukkad.com/ website whcih sent very informative weekly newsletters and lots of free booklets on mushroom cultivation.
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FireWater
TheRiseOfTheFire...
Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 419
Loc: The Hills
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10918186 - 08/23/09 06:14 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
diggs said:
Quote:
N3v3R said:
How in the hell do you get them that big... and how are you suppose to eat that
-------------------- _______________________________________________________________________ Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him.
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: FireWater]
#10918410 - 08/23/09 08:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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That was my example of a 2nd or 3rd flush with a coir substrate. They get way too big and that's one of the main reasons I usually bail out after the 2nd flush (with coir). Basically, you have to cut their caps off and mangle their stems to fit them into the dehydrator. Half a stem (or cap) is sometimes a good amount to eat. It gets pretty crazy - I prefer them smaller.
edit: Notice the full-size Brita filter next to these. Some people like them this big...
Edited by diggs (08/23/09 08:49 AM)
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: N3v3R]
#10918487 - 08/23/09 08:41 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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To the OP: what most people here prefer is an "impeller" type humidifier. What you do _not_ want is a "wick" or "wicking" type. Thirdly, there are ultra-sonic types. Almost every humidifier says what type it is somewhere on the box. You just need to go into the store and look around - or read online. Say it's for your child's or little sibling's allergies. Sometimes you have to read the whole box - but it will say somewhere.
Now that was for most people. As I said earlier, I prefer an ultra-sonic humidifier modified with a 10 kilo-ohm resister wired in series with the vibrating (piezo-electric) element. In the old USHs, you could run it in series with the dial - on the new units, the current for the lights and fan runs through the dial also, so you have to wire it in only with the vibrator thingy (or the extra current could ruin everything). If you use an ultra-sonic _without_ the resistor, IT WILL run out of water in about one day and totally swamp everything (and likely ruin everything too).
The impeller types (I believe) run out of water in a little over a day. Hopefully someone else can chime in here, as it's been a long time since I've used one. I used to use both, with the USH (ultra-sonic) on a timer. The USH with the 10k resistor, running full-time works perfectly for me and lasts 3-4 days. Here's one of mine:
The resister does _not_ have to have a knob or dial or anything, it can just be a little regular resister. I just got the knob-type 10k 10-turn (potentiometer) resister to be fancy. I now leave it turned all the way up and just use the built in stock dial. Without some type of resister, it will put out way too much water and not enough air.
There are also people here that have modified their impeller types to have a much bigger, external water reservoir, in a secondary container, piped to the primary tank. Either way will work - the 4 day freedom thing is sure nice.
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tajmahal420
Stranger than some....
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 533
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10918509 - 08/23/09 08:51 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
diggs said: That was my example of a 2nd or 3rd flush with a coir substrate. They get too big and that's why I usually bail out after the 2nd flush (with coir). Basically, you have to cut their caps off and mangle their stems to fit them into the dehydrator. Half a stem (or cap) is sometimes a good amount to eat. It gets pretty crazy - I prefer them smaller.
What I've done to my dehydrator to fit the larger ones is take one of the trays, and cut out the plastic with toenail clippers, leaving the inner and outer circles intact, with 4 of the straight parts of the "grid" connecting the inner and outer circles.
By doing this, you've just created a double depth tray, allowing you to keep your big, beautiful fruits intact.
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diggs
Registered: 07/06/08
Posts: 48
Loc: US
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: tajmahal420]
#10918549 - 08/23/09 09:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nice - that's pretty good! I usually just stuff em in there and lay the trays on top of each other. They get squished and stuck together for a while but they always shrink down eventually. Then I can re-adjust them later.
I'm not sure if I want to sacrifice any of my precious trays. I got mine used and the big one was already missing one tray. Good idea though - maybe I can get a 3rd one and try that for the big daddies. Some of these monsters would probably need 3 trays cut like that...
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Nibin
Getting there
Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: quick question for my first attempt [Re: diggs]
#10918568 - 08/23/09 09:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
diggs said: To the OP: what most people here prefer is an "impeller" type humidifier. What you do _not_ want is a "wick" or "wicking" type. Thirdly, there are ultra-sonic types. Almost every humidifier says what type it is somewhere on the box. You just need to go into the store and look around - or read online. Say it's for your child's or little sibling's allergies. Sometimes you have to read the whole box - but it will say somewhere.
Now that was for most people. As I said earlier, I prefer an ultra-sonic humidifier modified with a 10 kilo-ohm resister wired in series with the vibrating (piezo-electric) element. In the old USHs, you could run it in series with the dial - on the new units, the current for the lights and fan runs through the dial also, so you have to wire it in only with the vibrator thingy (or the extra current could ruin everything). If you use an ultra-sonic _without_ the resistor, IT WILL run out of water in about one day and totally swamp everything (and likely ruin everything too).
The impeller types (I believe) run out of water in a little over a day. Hopefully someone else can chime in here, as it's been a long time since I've used one. I used to use both, with the USH (ultra-sonic) on a timer. The USH with the 10k resistor, running full-time works perfectly for me and lasts 3-4 days. Here's one of mine:
The resister does _not_ have to have a knob or dial or anything, it can just be a little regular resister. I just got the knob-type 10k 10-turn (potentiometer) resister to be fancy. I now leave it turned all the way up and just use the built in stock dial. Without some type of resister, it will put out way too much water and not enough air.
There are also people here that have modified their impeller types to have a much bigger, external water reservoir, in a secondary container, piped to the primary tank. Either way will work - the 4 day freedom thing is sure nice.
Next time you wire one of these up take some pictures on how to do it.
Maybe this way people like me who don't believe in electricity (It does not really exist, honest, noone knows how it really works) can see how it is done.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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