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Lucid_Euphoria
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Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy
#10660946 - 07/11/09 10:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ok so I have a monotub that is pretty close to full colonization.
I decided I want to case this tub so I was reviewing chapter 8 & 9 in "The Mushroom Cultivator", The Casing Layer & Strategies for Mushroom Formation.
I'm going to list some excerpts from those chapters for 2 reasons. 1.Spark some discussion on this critical stage in cultivation. 2. Ensure that some of this info isn't disproved or outdated (since I've had this pointed out to me with other topics I've read from this book)
Ok so onto the notes: From Chapter 8: The Casing Layer
- Depth: + The correct depth to apply the casing layer is directly related to the depth of the substrate. Greater amounts of substrate increase yield potential which in turn puts more stress on the casing layer. Prolific first and second flushes can remove a thin casing later or damage its surface structure, thereby limiting future mushroom production. A thin casing layer also lacks the body and moisture holding capacity to support large flushes.
- Casing Colonization: + Environmental conditions after casing should be the same as during spawn running. Substrate temperatures are maintained within the optimal range for mycelial growth; relative humidity is 90-100%; and fresh air is kept to a minimum. The buildup of CO2 is beneficial to mycelial growth. + A sheet of plastic should be placed over the casing. This plastic sheet also prevents moisture loss from the casing. + Within three days of application, the mycelium should be growing into the casing layer. + Once mycelial growth is firmly established, the casing is gradually watered up to its optimum moisture holding capacity. This is accomplished by a series of light waterings over a two to four day period. Deeper casings require more waterings. + Optimum moisture capacity should be achieved at least two before the mycelium reaches the surface.
- A modified application called "Deep Scratching" When the mycelium is midway through the casing, the entire layer is thoroughly ruffled down to the bulk substrate. The agitated and broken mycelium quickly recovers itself and within 3-4 days it completely colonizes the casing. The result is an early, even and prolific pinhead formation. Before using this technique, the grower must be certain that the substrate and casing are free of competitor molds and nematodes.
From Chapter 9: Strategies for Mushroom Formation
- Basic Pinning Strategy: + Most, if not all cultivated mushrooms fruit at lower temperatures than the optimum for the growth of mycelium. Usually a drop in temperature is accompanies by rain or an increase in humidity. + Primordia have a low tolerance to CO2 and need ample fresh air.
- PRIMORDIA FORMATION PROCEDURES
Stage 1: Preperation 1. The casing layer is at optimum moisture capacity 2. The casing layer surface is rough and porous 3. The relative humidity of the growing area is 95% 4. The substrate/casing is incubated in total darkness * The higher the humidity (rH), the less water will be lost to evaporation. * Whether by initial application or by ruffling at a later time, the casing later surface should be rough and open-with minute mountains and valleys. A rough open casing has more surface area where pinheads can form, provides a humid environment conductive to that formation and allows the diffusion of metabolic gases.
Stage 2: Environmental Transition-The Prelude to Setting Primordia * Pinhead initiation techniques should begin when the mycelium reaches the valleys of the casing surface. Once the mycelium is clearly established in the valleys, the cultivator can begin the first steps leading to the setting of pinheads. Within this one to two day period the: 1. Substrate and air temperatures are lowered to the fruiting range 2. The humidity is maintained at the 95% level 3. The CO2 content of the area is reduced by the introduction of fresh air 4. The area is lighed one a 12 hour on/off cycle * By "patching" shallow areas, an even mycelial spread is assured. Note that the more even the distribution of the mycelium in the valleys of the casing's surface, the more even the pin-set and the greater the first and second flushes. * Some cultivators initiate when 20% of the valleys show growth while others wait until 90% are run through. Normally within 12-48 hours from the time the mycelium is first visible in the valleys, the initiation sequence is started. * Within 48 hours, the substrate temperature should fall to fruiting temperatures, effectively slowing vegetative growth. This change signals the mycelium that it is time to fruit. * Fresh air also removes high concentrations of CO2 and other metabolic gases from the area.
Stage 3: Primordia Formation (Knotting) * Once substrate temperatures have been lowered and CO2 levels have been reduced, primordia will begin to form. Maintain: 1. A constant fresh air supply to remove metabolic gases, and CO2 2. A constant temperature 3. A relative humidity of 95% 4. A 12 hour on/off light cycle * These parameters should be held constant until the pins are set. Any abrupt changes in temperature or humidity will be harmful to primordial growth. * Due to slowed mycelial growth in the cooled substrate, CO2 evolution is greatly reduced. Consequently, the fresh air supply can be moderated to the minimum level necessary. * At this time, oversupply of fresh air can lead to high evaporation rates and excessive drying. The humidity should never be allowed to fall below 90%. If dry air becomes a problem, a light misting of the casing surface, 2-5 times daily, should keep the micro-climate moist. * Given sufficient casing moisture and a high humidity, these watering practices become unnecessary.
Stage 4: Pinhead Development * After the pinheads have grown to pea size (3-5 mm), thier further development is primarily dependant on air temperature and relative humidity. To insure that they mature into healthy mushrooms the: 1. Air temperature is held constant within the fruiting range. 2. Relative humidity is lowered to 85-92%. 3. A constant fresh air supply. 4. A 12 hour on/off light cycle. * The humidity is lowered to 85-92%, thereby increasing the evaporation rate, an essential requirement for pinhead maturation. * The easiest way to reduce humidity is to increase air movement within the area. * At this time, a slightly higher level of CO2 is desirable and fresh air can be cut back accordingly
- THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PRIMORDIA FORMATION AND YIELD
1. During the primordia formation period, pinheads for the first and second flush are being generated. Once the first flush is off the beds, the second set of primordia begin to enlarge and within days reach button size. Because 60-75% of the total yield is normally harvested from the first two flushes, the few days of pinhead initiation are the most critical in the growing of mushrooms.
2. The greater the number of pins set for the first flush, the higher the yield, provided sufficient nutrients are available to support thier growth. However, with more pinheads competing for the same nutrient base, the smaller are the mushrooms arising from it. Fewer pinheads result in larger mushrooms, but lower yields.
4. Pins that form early delay the growth of neighboring primordia. Good examples of this can be found in shallow areas or along the borders of the substrate container. Removing these few "volunteers" before they develop is advantageous to the remaining primordia that constisute the first flush.
Ok that's about it! Please discuss or feel free to point out sections you think may not be true.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE "If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
Edited by Lucid_Euphoria (07/11/09 10:46 PM)
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hyphae
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Sounds an awful like my pinning strategy with a little less emphasis on timing. It's all fact except incubating in total darkness during the case run as the myc is in darkness under the surface anyway until it breaks through. Early breakthroughs are patched reducing the chances for premature pin development. This is one area I've paid particularly close attention to over the years understanding it fully and learning to optimize timing to take advantage of the veg cycle. Read my pinning strategy and see if you can pick up on anything not covered in Paul's strategy. Thanks for the post it brings back many old memories! Side note although we strive for the perfect pinset extremely prolific ones can spontaneously abort if they all flush at once. Also although there can be prolific flushes with smaller fruits as compared to less than prolific flushes with larger fruits final yield can often still be very close by weight.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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The shroomy 1
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10661105 - 07/11/09 11:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Damn it! You took the words right out of my mouth! But then again....I've followed your pinning strategy for some time now.
-------------------- AMU Q&A thread.
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Lucid_Euphoria
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: The shroomy 1]
#10661587 - 07/12/09 03:26 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read your strategy multiple times Hyphae. Of course that was about 4 or 5 years ago, so maybe it's time I did a refresh.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE "If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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system32
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From Chapter 8: The Casing Layer + A sheet of plastic should be placed over the casing. This plastic sheet also prevents moisture loss from the casing.
does everyone do this? ive not seen this done over the top before..
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hyphae
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: system32]
#10661895 - 07/12/09 07:33 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
system32 said: From Chapter 8: The Casing Layer + A sheet of plastic should be placed over the casing. This plastic sheet also prevents moisture loss from the casing.
does everyone do this? ive not seen this done over the top before..
For my casing run I've always done this I used saran with many small pin holes the more the better this not only holds the moisture but also the co2 which aids in the case run. Easier yet would be to crumple slightly a sheet of waxpaper and lay it on top worked just as good thank RR for that one!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RJ Tubs 202
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10662317 - 07/12/09 10:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I've read your Pinning Strategy, which is very helpful. I've recently attempted the "case and place" approach with aggressive types.
Can you provide your thoughts on the "case and place" approach?
(For those not familiar with it, "Case and Place" is a method where you spawn to bulk, then case, and then immediately transfer to fruiting conditions.)
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Olgualion
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10662831 - 07/12/09 12:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I've recently attempted the "case and place" approach with aggressive types.
Quote:
- Casing Colonization: + Environmental conditions after casing should be the same as during spawn running. Substrate temperatures are maintained within the optimal range for mycelial growth; relative humidity is 90-100%; and fresh air is kept to a minimum. The buildup of CO2 is beneficial to mycelial growth.
As Stamets states above CO2 should be allowed to build. No fresh Air Exchanges/ fanning.
The drop in CO2 levels is a trigger for pinning/fruiting as well!
IMO the only benefit to the casing in the "case and place" technique would be for its use as a H2O reservoir.
By "aggressive types" do you mean strains/substrains/isolates that do not respond quickly/ evenly to initiation conditions? If so, I have found that following the above posted info in addition to a cold shock as an added step helps tremendously. Place your trays into the fridge right when you would normally place them in your fruiting chamber and begin initiation. I used to put them in new clean plastic trash bags that have that are tied closed.
-------------------- Study the past... See the future...
Edited by Olgualion (07/12/09 12:14 PM)
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Lucid_Euphoria
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: Olgualion]
#10662998 - 07/12/09 12:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
+ Within three days of application, the mycelium should be growing into the casing layer. + Once mycelial growth is firmly established, the casing is gradually watered up to its optimum moisture holding capacity. This is accomplished by a series of light waterings over a two to four day period. Deeper casings require more waterings. + Optimum moisture capacity should be achieved at least two days before the mycelium reaches the surface.
I have a question about this excerpt. How is one supposed to bring the casing layer up to optimum moisture without releasing the CO2 buildup/giving it fresh air? I'm confused as to how this could be done. It seems to me that you wouldn't be able to rehydrate the casing until after the pin set.
Also a question about depth. Would 1.25" be too deep of a casing for a 3-5" substrate depth in a 27x12" tub?
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE "If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: Olgualion]
#10663533 - 07/12/09 02:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Olgualion said:
Quote:
I've recently attempted the "case and place" approach with aggressive types.
Quote:
- Casing Colonization: + Environmental conditions after casing should be the same as during spawn running. Substrate temperatures are maintained within the optimal range for mycelial growth; relative humidity is 90-100%; and fresh air is kept to a minimum. The buildup of CO2 is beneficial to mycelial growth.
As Stamets states above CO2 should be allowed to build. No fresh Air Exchanges/ fanning.
The drop in CO2 levels is a trigger for pinning/fruiting as well!
IMO the only benefit to the casing in the "case and place" technique would be for its use as a H2O reservoir.
By "aggressive types" do you mean strains/substrains/isolates that do not respond quickly/ evenly to initiation conditions? If so, I have found that following the above posted info in addition to a cold shock as an added step helps tremendously. Place your trays into the fridge right when you would normally place them in your fruiting chamber and begin initiation. I used to put them in new clean plastic trash bags that have that are tied closed.
Good points. My little bit of experience with "casing and placing" has shown that you can get great mycellial casing growth with fine pinsets with this approach. As you noted, Stamets states CO2 should be allowed to build during the casing run, with no fresh air exchanges/ fanning. But non-cased bulk can be fruited with no casing run w/CO2 buildup. If you can get a good pinset without a casing run with high CO2, as I have with the "cased and placed" approach, I'm left wondering what the CO2 buildup effects? Fruitbody quality?
By agresssive types - yes, meaning types with high mycellial momentum that continue to grow in veg state after entering fruiting conditions, such as Amazon. That's what your cold-treatment addresses, right? Halting vegetative growth?
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hyphae
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: I've read your Pinning Strategy, which is very helpful. I've recently attempted the "case and place" approach with aggressive types.
Can you provide your thoughts on the "case and place" approach?
(For those not familiar with it, "Case and Place" is a method where you spawn to bulk, then case, and then immediately transfer to fruiting conditions.)
Well either way you'll have to wait for the substrate run to be completed you won't want to slow the process at all by cooling it that would be a huge mistake but aggressive myc that has already colonized the substrate and has been cased does benefit from being placed it the fridge the reason being it hastens the transition by initiating slowed growth. IMHO this is just the lazy mans way and will produce results as well as possible other problems depending on your techniques.Quote:
Lucid_Euphoria said:
Quote:
+ Within three days of application, the mycelium should be growing into the casing layer. + Once mycelial growth is firmly established, the casing is gradually watered up to its optimum moisture holding capacity. This is accomplished by a series of light waterings over a two to four day period. Deeper casings require more waterings. + Optimum moisture capacity should be achieved at least two days before the mycelium reaches the surface.
I have a question about this excerpt. How is one supposed to bring the casing layer up to optimum moisture without releasing the CO2 buildup/giving it fresh air? I'm confused as to how this could be done. It seems to me that you wouldn't be able to rehydrate the casing until after the pin set.
Also a question about depth. Would 1.25" be too deep of a casing for a 3-5" substrate depth in a 27x12" tub?
As the myc runs the casing it is in a high co2 environment until it breaks the surface once on the surface co2 concentration drop considerably but if there is no FAE co2 concentrations are still very good for pin development. You bring the moisture content up so you can leave it alone during the primordia formation stage once set you can resume mistings once again. 1.25" would definitely be too deep IME 3/4-1" max would work best.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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Olgualion
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10666472 - 07/12/09 11:24 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
My little bit of experience with "casing and placing" has shown that you can get great mycellial casing growth with fine pinsets with this approach.
I don't have any experience with the method. Do you have any links to threads with good "case and place" grows?
Quote:
As you noted, Stamets states CO2 should be allowed to build during the casing run, with no fresh air exchanges/ fanning. But non-cased bulk can be fruited with no casing run w/CO2 buildup. If you can get a good pinset without a casing run with high CO2, as I have with the "cased and placed" approach, I'm left wondering what the CO2 buildup effects? Fruitbody quality?
Stamets says it helps pinhead formation. I don't know what biological processes are actually going on; I see it as another initiation trigger for the standard casing method.
Don't get me wrong; I truly prefer growing uncased bulk shit cakes, and you're right they often have a very nice first pinset and flush very well, but IMO there is nothing like the aesthetic beauty of a properly cased tray with an even pinset that blossoms to maturity.
Quote:
That's what your cold-treatment addresses, right? Halting vegetative growth?
That's just it.
-------------------- Study the past... See the future...
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carbonsteel
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10667486 - 07/13/09 05:39 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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During the case run, what is usually the time frame before mycelium start showing on the valleys? i covered(not tightly) mine with tin foiled, wrap it in a plastic bag and left it in the dark. Been 2 days now, should i take a peek? wouldnt it allow CO2 to escape if i keep peeking?
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hyphae
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: carbonsteel]
#10667493 - 07/13/09 05:45 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
carbonsteel said: During the case run, what is usually the time frame before mycelium start showing on the valleys? i covered(not tightly) mine with tin foiled, wrap it in a plastic bag and left it in the dark. Been 2 days now, should i take a peek? wouldnt it allow CO2 to escape if i keep peeking?
You can but I'd give it a good 72hrs otherwise you may be just wasting your time but that totally depends on your casings thickness. Don't worry about the co2 it will build back up quick enough as long as you aren't peeking often.
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: Olgualion]
#10673793 - 07/14/09 07:14 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Olgualion said: I don't have any experience with the method. Do you have any links to threads with good "case and place" grows?
The idea is casing and entering fruiting conditions at the same time. Instead of a 3-5 day casing run, just going straight to fruiting conditions. If you search "case and place" you will see a few comments about it.
I get fine pinsets with the C&P approach, but I use a passive shotgun type method for my FAE, so maybe my CO2 levels are not so low - or fluctuate, and are high enough at times to give me a CO2 rich environment for pin formation.
I also like casings! For me, nothing performs like a good cased sub. I still like to play though - that's much of the fun! I've had some interesting results with "late casing". Put the uncased fully colonized substrate in fruiting conditions, and then wait for knotting/pins, and then case. I've tried it 3 times and am surprised how well it works, in some cases better than regular cased trays, which leaves me puzzled!
catchya later
rj
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Olgualion
Shaman-In-Training
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10674536 - 07/14/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have never done it, but from me experience with casing layers it seems counter-intuitive.
There are pinsets and there are Pinsets! A good pinset is a very subjective term. With a properly cared for casing you should get a Wall-to-Wall first flush of mushrooms!
In my mind, I see a bunch of fruiting coming from the sides of your trays (especially 2nd and later flushes). You may get a good number of mushrooms that come from your casing, but these were all going to grow whether you added the casing layer or not since they were already forming/ growing. It is possible that your added casing helps this first flush to get a bit bigger because of the water that the mushy's can get from it. All it will do is help your first flush not run out of water. But it adds a potential contam vector, it adds a bunch on casing on top of mycelium that may not fruit at its potential because of lack of light/ air. Which is why I said you'd probably end up with more side pinning/fruiting post first flush.
It just doesn't make sense to me because I have a different understanding of just what a casing is for.
-------------------- Study the past... See the future...
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Lucid_Euphoria
Sojourner
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Posts: 1,045
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: Olgualion]
#10676879 - 07/14/09 05:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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^ TRUTH
I agree 100%. Casing layers are most beneficial for getting maximum amount of primordia evenly across the cropping surface. Adding it after the pins are set will only help insure they have plenty of water to grow.
-------------------- PAN CYAN & AZURE FOR TRADE "If ignorance is bliss, THEN KNOCK THE SMILE OFF MY FACE!" - Zach de la Rocha "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather!" -Bill Hicks-
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RJ Tubs 202
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Posts: 6,123
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: Olgualion]
#10683445 - 07/15/09 05:52 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Olgualion said: I have never done it, but from me experience with casing layers it seems counter-intuitive.
There are pinsets and there are Pinsets! A good pinset is a very subjective term. With a properly cared for casing you should get a Wall-to-Wall first flush of mushrooms!
In my mind, I see a bunch of fruiting coming from the sides of your trays (especially 2nd and later flushes). You may get a good number of mushrooms that come from your casing, but these were all going to grow whether you added the casing layer or not since they were already forming/ growing. It is possible that your added casing helps this first flush to get a bit bigger because of the water that the mushy's can get from it. All it will do is help your first flush not run out of water. But it adds a potential contam vector, it adds a bunch on casing on top of mycelium that may not fruit at its potential because of lack of light/ air. Which is why I said you'd probably end up with more side pinning/fruiting post first flush.
It just doesn't make sense to me because I have a different understanding of just what a casing is for.
Yeah, I get your points, some good ones. Thanks.
But over-pinning can be a big problem also, at least it has been for me. I do not want wall to wall pins, because I get better yields with lower pin sets. Side pinning has not been an issue with the case and place method.
If I give my casing run 48-72 hours in closed container high CO2 conditions, my casing is fully colonized by the time pins form.
If I "case and place", my substrate pins when the mycellium is half way thu the casing layer, thus allowing me to "water" the babies to maturity - the uncolonized casing is available to receive water.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I think it deserves additonal attention.
So far, I find "late casing" to be superior to "case and place".
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hyphae
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#10684429 - 07/15/09 08:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Olgualion said: I have never done it, but from me experience with casing layers it seems counter-intuitive.
There are pinsets and there are Pinsets! A good pinset is a very subjective term. With a properly cared for casing you should get a Wall-to-Wall first flush of mushrooms!
In my mind, I see a bunch of fruiting coming from the sides of your trays (especially 2nd and later flushes). You may get a good number of mushrooms that come from your casing, but these were all going to grow whether you added the casing layer or not since they were already forming/ growing. It is possible that your added casing helps this first flush to get a bit bigger because of the water that the mushy's can get from it. All it will do is help your first flush not run out of water. But it adds a potential contam vector, it adds a bunch on casing on top of mycelium that may not fruit at its potential because of lack of light/ air. Which is why I said you'd probably end up with more side pinning/fruiting post first flush.
It just doesn't make sense to me because I have a different understanding of just what a casing is for.
Yeah, I get your points, some good ones. Thanks.
But over-pinning can be a big problem also, at least it has been for me. I do not want wall to wall pins, because I get better yields with lower pin sets. Side pinning has not been an issue with the case and place method.
If I give my casing run 48-72 hours in closed container high CO2 conditions, my casing is fully colonized by the time pins form.
If I "case and place", my substrate pins when the mycellium is half way thu the casing layer, thus allowing me to "water" the babies to maturity - the uncolonized casing is available to receive water.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I think it deserves additonal attention.
So far, I find "late casing" to be superior to "case and place".
In my book wall to wall pins are great as long as they don't flush all at once. 2-3 flushes provide wall to wall mature fruits 2-3 times maybe 4!
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RJ Tubs 202
Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,123
Loc: USA
Last seen: 6 days, 22 hours
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Re: Notes on Casing & Pinning Strategy [Re: hyphae]
#10689451 - 07/16/09 05:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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hyphae said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
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Olgualion said: I have never done it, but from me experience with casing layers it seems counter-intuitive.
There are pinsets and there are Pinsets! A good pinset is a very subjective term. With a properly cared for casing you should get a Wall-to-Wall first flush of mushrooms!
In my mind, I see a bunch of fruiting coming from the sides of your trays (especially 2nd and later flushes). You may get a good number of mushrooms that come from your casing, but these were all going to grow whether you added the casing layer or not since they were already forming/ growing. It is possible that your added casing helps this first flush to get a bit bigger because of the water that the mushy's can get from it. All it will do is help your first flush not run out of water. But it adds a potential contam vector, it adds a bunch on casing on top of mycelium that may not fruit at its potential because of lack of light/ air. Which is why I said you'd probably end up with more side pinning/fruiting post first flush.
It just doesn't make sense to me because I have a different understanding of just what a casing is for.
Yeah, I get your points, some good ones. Thanks.
But over-pinning can be a big problem also, at least it has been for me. I do not want wall to wall pins, because I get better yields with lower pin sets. Side pinning has not been an issue with the case and place method.
If I give my casing run 48-72 hours in closed container high CO2 conditions, my casing is fully colonized by the time pins form.
If I "case and place", my substrate pins when the mycellium is half way thu the casing layer, thus allowing me to "water" the babies to maturity - the uncolonized casing is available to receive water.
I'm not totally sure what is going on, but I think it deserves additonal attention.
So far, I find "late casing" to be superior to "case and place".
In my book wall to wall pins are great as long as they don't flush all at once. 2-3 flushes provide wall to wall mature fruits 2-3 times maybe 4!
Every time I get wall to wall pins, only 30-60% mature, so I have found that I get better yields with lower pinsets (with higher percentages maturing).
Is there a method for not letting wall to wall pins flush all at once?
I always frown when I get super heavy pin sets.
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