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 Therian
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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 more new taxes/screw the people 
#10602956 - 07/01/09 11:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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It seems not too long ago many were upset that we the taxpayers were/are rewarding the failures of the banking industry by giving the very people that got us into this financial mess huge payouts/bonuses, and loans.
Now it is stated that nearly every state in the union is facing major monetary shortfalls in their budgets. It is said that our elected officials are leaving "no stone unturned" when it comes to looking for new things to tax. The budget shortfalls are due to 1. lack of income from income taxes due to huge unemployment rates, 2. lack of revenue from sales taxes due to the fact people can no longer purchase items they used to due to their diminished economic status. 3.falling values of homes leading to less state income from property taxes.
The states hit the hardest by unemployment are those that are coming up with the greatest amounts of new taxes, such as; increase in taxes/placing new taxes on drivers licenses and tabs, soft drink taxes, cigarette taxes, water taxes, pole taxes, new taxes for subscribers to cable television, new hotel taxes, wine, beer and spirit taxes, higher rates on water and sewer, etc.
How is this any different than dealing with the financial institutions? Our paid representatives have given businesses incentives to send jobs overseas,they have come up with programs we obviously cant afford,and give benefits to those that have never put anything into the system. We must now reward the government with more funds due to their inability to maintain a budget. How can these people in good conscience enact huge tax increases on those that can least afford it? They are continuously doing this in my state. You know, when people are struggling, have lost their jobs and are on the verge of losing their homes, just charge and tax them more. This seems like adding insult to injury. For the no new taxes on the middle class statement this is obviously bullshit. It seems soon there will be no middle class, just tax us all to lower class and soon everyone will become dependent on the government.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Therian]
#10603040 - 07/01/09 11:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
The budget shortfalls are due to 1. lack of income from income taxes due to huge unemployment rates, 2. lack of revenue from sales taxes due to the fact people can no longer purchase items they used to due to their diminished economic status. 3.falling values of homes leading to less state income from property taxes.
4. Being unable to stop themselves from spending money on every foolish plan that comes their way.
5. Taxing the productive to the point where they do whatever they can to avoid paying taxes.
6. Giving money to those who do nothing to earn it, including benefits for illegals.
How long do you want this list to be?
You're examples are only reduced revenue. What about all the out of control spending?
You're kidding yourself if you don't factor those in as well.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#10603241 - 07/01/09 12:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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By the way, his number 3 is complete bullshit. Property taxes have nothing to do with actual property value, only relative property value. At least where I live. You are assessed based on the comparative value of your house.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: zappaisgod]
#10603281 - 07/01/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
By the way, his number 3 is complete bullshit. Property taxes have nothing to do with actual property value, only relative property value. At least where I live. You are assessed based on the comparative value of your house.
Good point.
Add in the fact that revaluations are only done every several years, so while the tax rate may change, the effects of a revaluation aren't seen for some time.
When it does happen though I'm *sure* the amount of money collected goes WAY down. 
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Therian
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: zappaisgod]
#10603361 - 07/01/09 12:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
4. Being unable to stop themselves from spending money on every foolish plan that comes their way.
5. Taxing the productive to the point where they do whatever they can to avoid paying taxes.
6. Giving money to those who do nothing to earn it, including benefits for illegals.Quote:
Yes I addressed 4. When I stated "they come up with programs we obviously can't afford"
And 6. I stated They give benefits to those that have put nothing into the system. This point really pisses me off. It seems while many legal citizens struggle, illegals are given free health care, welfare, etc. Why work when those that don't have it better than those that do? Wouldn't it be nice not to have to worry about your job and your performance there when you could just sit at home and be secure in the guarantee that everyone else will pay for your expenses? But that is for another thread.
My point is that these elected geniuses we have, have so completely mismanaged the system though their utter ignorance and arrogance, now we once again foot the bill. More importantly those that have been adversely affected by their decisions by falling home prices, loss of employment, etc. are now the very ones who will be most affected by the tax increases. It seems like kicking someone in the nuts when you have already pushed them over. Obviously state revenue is down due to the fact people can't afford to engage in previous levels of consumption. So, when people have little or are on the verge of losing everything they tax them more, thus the hole just keeps getting deeper.
For example in my wonderful state, when gas prices went through the roof last year our elected representatives informed us that we should cut back on driving, carpool, etc. This would decrease demand and thus lower the prices. Two problems with this, the future traders have cornered the market and regardless of demand, we always get screwed.
2. When people were not driving as much, which was due to economic hardship, not necessarily to save the environment, the state has decided to come up with a new sliding gas tax. We are normally taxed on a per gallon basis,now the state wants the price of gas to dictate the tax. As the cost of gas per gallon goes up, so will the tax. Thus negating any benefits from not driving as much.
They say drive less to save money, then when the state doesn't get as much in gas taxes, they just raise/change the tax. Ultimately fucking the consumer no matter what they do. After the congress was able to vote themselves a 40% increase in pay people got furious and now I believe in the state constitution before they can vote for another pay raise it has to be voted on by the people. People have also changed their states constitutions to allow/disallow gay marriage. Is it possible to mandate that the states must have a vote prior to passing/raising taxes? Somewhat like a millage increase vote? How about having ones constituents vote prior to creating more programs that the people that are expected to pay for it can't afford.
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djmako7
Antitransubstantiationalist
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
Loc: A shady spot under a tree
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Therian]
#10603640 - 07/01/09 01:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
No taxation without representation
These asses in the senate and congress don't represent my best interest.
I guess its up to the people to represent ourselves.
Who's up for a revolution?
I've got no job, I'm losing my house. Welfare denied my claim. I've got a family and we are a month away from losing everything.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: djmako7]
#10603737 - 07/01/09 01:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Historically, we are way way overdue for a revolution.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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djmako7
Antitransubstantiationalist
Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
Loc: A shady spot under a tree
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Stonehenge]
#10603824 - 07/01/09 02:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I posted this in my blog on myspace but I feel you guys should know whats happening to other people as far as taxes go.
I feel my families and my best interest are not heard from as our senators "represent" us. Today is a landmark day for taxes. The county I live in (clark county) now has a new sales tax of 8.1%
The list continues with:
Filing your taxes tax: where people will now have to pay to use paper to file taxes. This encourages the use of paperless tax filing. Sounds reasonable? Not entirely. When Identity theft is the highest non violent crime in the USA this will leave more room for those criminals to steal your information.
The prepared food tax:states that food for human consumption is exempt from sales tax but excludes “prepared food intended for
immediate consumption” from the exemption making the sale of prepared food taxable.
RETAILERS AND SALES TAX: 8.1% need I say more
Responsible persons tax: A tax to prevent people from not filing there taxes
Lemon law tax: If you return your vehicle to a dealership you will be taxed
Charges for service tax: sales tax will be applied for any service you receive
Fruit tree, vine berries tax : Sales tax will be applied to seeds or plants that bare edible fruits and vegetables
Charcoal, briquettes and propane tax : sales tax will be included
chlorine and other chemical agents tax: sales tax will be applied
Window tinting tax : A minimum of $200.00 tax will be applied if you get your windows tinted. Sales tax applied too
FABRICATION VERSUS REPAIR LABOR TAX: sales tax applied
REGISTERING ONLINE WITH NEVADATAX: A tax will be applied when filing your taxes online. WTF? this doesnt make sense. they tax you if you file paperless and they tax you if you file paper. No way out of that one
ELECTRONIC PAYMENT REQUIRED FOR
TAX REMITTANCES OF $10,000 AND OVER: You will be taxed on top of the filing online tax
Hotel room tax: If you choose to stay in a hotel here in las vegas you will be taxed on top of the sales tax. This tax will go towards the school district or so they say.
Gambling tax: A tax will be applied for any winnings you earn
The list goes on including the 7% increase on electricty. This green bill that obama is trying to pass will only lengthen this list of taxes including water. This will be a national thing.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: djmako7]
#10603877 - 07/01/09 02:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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If we overthrow the govt and install a new one, all of china's us treasuries will be worthless. LOL all debts cancelled and start over fresh. Sort of like a bk for a country.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Therian]
#10604369 - 07/01/09 03:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's funny looking at the differences between local/state/federal gov't units. I work for a local government and we were faced with a several million dollar shortfall at the end of th cycle due to the downturn.
Rather than raise taxes, what do we do? We cut non-essential programs and budget items. You would think that this would be the way to attack a deficit.
Of course, this would mean the elected officials would have to find something on the state or federal budgets which they think isn't essential, which you know ain't happening.
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Methadone
Opiate
Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 726
Loc: El Sur
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Stonehenge]
#10604463 - 07/01/09 03:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Wont all these taxes simply feed big G at the expense of keeping the economy screwed? Theyre making more money, but isnt it destroying the natural way of things at this crucial point? I.E. the more they take, the less goes back into regenerating the economy, the more messed up things stay?
Im sure there are more dynamics to it, but it still seems to me this solution wont help anything in the long run (for either side). Correct me if im wrong, im here to learn. No better place I suppose, the Shroomery has always been an education.
Im new in this subforum by the way, hello.
-M
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Therian
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Methadone]
#10606389 - 07/01/09 09:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just saw the interview by Juan Williams with the white house spokesman. We are now totally screwed. After attempting to dodge Juan's straightforward question on raising taxes on the middle class over and over again, the spokesman finally stated that when Obama said that he would not raise taxes on those making less than 250k this was his "philosophy". He then said that it was how Obama felt, and not necessarily how he would act. He then went on to say that when he made this promise to the American people it wasn't "set in stone" WTF?!!
Juan then asked how during these times in this recession how could he attempt to raise taxes when Obama himself lambasted McCain on the campaign trail for even mentioning it. It was then stated that cap and trade is not a tax increase, but a jobs bill. Even though it would essentially raise taxes on EVERYTHING. Food, gas, clothing, energy, you name it. Now tax health benefits? You've got to be fucking kidding me.
Also when one sells their house now they want it to be up to "green standards", adding hundreds or even thousands of dollars that the homeowner must pay before they can sell their house. I'm sure this is going to do wonders to help establish a rebound in the housing market, as well as straddle homeowners (even those only making 25k, much less 250) with more expenses they can't afford.
I did not vote for Obama, but I did have hope. Now that bastard has lost any shred of integrity which I hoped he had, and that IS set in stone.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
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Loc: South Texas
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Therian]
#10606740 - 07/01/09 10:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Therian said:
After attempting to dodge Juan's straightforward question on raising taxes on the middle class over and over again, the spokesman finally stated that when Obama said that he would not raise taxes on those making less than 250k this was his "philosophy" and not necessarily how he would act. ?!!
some how they will just blame this on George Bush....
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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"
We have "reckless fiscal policies"
America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.
Americans deserve better
Barack Obama
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: lonestar2004]
#10608011 - 07/02/09 04:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> some how they will just blame this on George Bush....
Of course it is Georgies fault... if he had been spending money like Obama, then Obama wouldn't need to be spending money. This isn't rocket science.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Seuss]
#10608030 - 07/02/09 04:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> some how they will just blame this on George Bush....
Of course it is Georgies fault... if he had been spending money like Obama, then Obama wouldn't need to be spending money. This isn't rocket science.
I would have thought you were trolling a few months ago...
But this is exactly the shit people have been saying. "yeah he lied, sure he said he wouldn't do that, that's definitaly wrong... but...... its bush's fault. He paved the way!!!"
The cognitive dissonance is setting in: "I supported that? That's not what I support.... I must have been forced! It was a compromise! I did the right thing!"
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: johnm214]
#10608043 - 07/02/09 05:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> I would have thought you were trolling a few months ago...
I seldom troll, but often state obnoxious viewpoints in an attempt to get people to think about where the extremes might lead. Unfortunately, in this case, I am simply parroting the mass of disillusioned Obama supporters. When the Obama administration starts to dodge campaign promises claiming that they are philosophies rather than promises, I can't help but think back to Bush's fate with the "read my lips" line. The blaming Bush game might work for a few more months, but eventually people, even the Otards, are going to hold Obama accountable for his massive failures.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Seuss]
#10608175 - 07/02/09 06:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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And Obama is held on a pretty high pedestal so he's got a long way to fall. It'll be interesting to watch.
That said, this isn't going to be it. Obama was not elected on a platform of 'no new taxes'. Failing to hold that promise isn't as significant as failing to hold the promise of ending the war in Iraq, for example.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: zouden]
#10608201 - 07/02/09 06:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Obama was not elected on a platform of 'no new taxes'. Failing to hold that promise isn't as significant as failing to hold the promise of ending the war in Iraq
I think you "misunderestimate" the anger of the average American taxpayer. Obama was elected on a platform of 'no new taxes for the middle class' and they are going to drop him as fast as they dropped "read my lips" when he raised taxes. Iraq is a sore point, but taxes hit people's quality of life. When energy costs double, or triple, along with increased tax rates at both the federal and state level, increased prices, increased unemployment, a failing economy, and coddling of illegal aliens and people that don't pay taxes, the People will speak and the Democrats will take the full brunt of the blame.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: Seuss]
#10608230 - 07/02/09 06:51 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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>Obama was elected on a platform of 'no new taxes for the middle class'
I disagree. Both him and McCain had a policy of no new taxes on the middle class, but voters chose Obama for other reasons (mostly because he wasn't a Republican). Raising taxes is never going to be a popular move, but it's more likely to anger Obama's detractors than his supporters.
>the People will speak and the Democrats will take the full brunt of the blame.
Of course. But that's mostly because they're the ones in power at the moment. Most of what you mentioned are effects of the recession. I can't imagine the Republicans handling it any better, and there's no reason to think that they wouldn't get blamed for the country's ills if they were in power.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: more new taxes/screw the people [Re: zouden]
#10608280 - 07/02/09 07:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Both him and McCain had a policy of no new taxes on the middle class, but voters chose Obama for other reasons
It doesn't matter. When people start losing their standard of living due to taxes, all they are going to remember is Obama's promise (which is now a philosophy, not a promise).
> But that's mostly because they're the ones in power at the moment.
Yep.
> Most of what you mentioned are effects of the recession. I can't imagine the Republicans handling it any better
I never made a claim otherwise, but it doesn't matter. Democrats will take the blame. American's have a short memory when it comes to politics thanks to the media.
When taxes and costs go out of control, and the Democrats control all of congress and the presidency, the people are going to blame Obama and the Democrats. It isn't going to matter how charismatic Obama is or how well he reads a teleprompter. It isn't going to matter who is really to blame. It isn't going to matter why Obama was elected.
The best Obama can hope for is losing control of congress in 2010. If this happens, he can dump some of the blame onto the Republicans. If the Democrats retain full control of Congress in 2010, then it is going to be very, very ugly for them in 2012. Look back to 1976 and the swift change in 1980 for a preview of history repeating itself.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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