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InvisibleSilversoul
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An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics
    #10595430 - 06/29/09 11:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I thought I'd post this primarily for the sake of reference.  I often refer to these concepts, and it would be easier if I could link to this thread.  I figure I might educate you guys more in detail about what I've only hinted at before.

"Spiral Dynamics" is a term coined by Don Beck and Chris Cowan in their 1996 book by the same name, and later popularized by Ken Wilber, who has since made his own theoretical contributions to it.  It refers to a map of human development based on extensive cross-cultural research by Clare Graves, Carol Gilligan, Lawrence Kohlberg, and several others.  It uses different colors represent different levels of development.  These developmental levels are experienced by individuals and by cultures.  The important thing to realize is that even in an advanced culture, everyone starts at square one.  Here's a rundown of the different levels, using Beck and Cowan's color scheme, and that of Ken Wilber, who modified a few of them to fit the light spectrum more closely:

Beige:
Archaic-instinctive.  This is the level of pure fight-or-flight survivalism.  Eat, sleep, fuck.  Nothing more than that going on up there.

Purple:
Animistic-tribalistic-magical.  At this level, everything is anthropomorphised.  The moon follows you as you walk by.  The wind has a personality.  The ego at this stage is predifferetiated -- it has not yet formed a separate identity, but sees the world in terms of projections of oneself.  This level of consciousness was common in primitive tribes, but most modern tribes have transcended it as they've come in contact with modernity.

Red:
Impulsive-Egocentric.  Here the ego has formed and differentiated itself from others, but is not yet capable of taking others' perspectives.  While one understands that there are consequences for one's actions, the only person taken person who enters their moral sphere of consideration is oneself.  People at this level tend to be reflexively rebellious.  They hate being told what to do.

Blue/Amber:
Ethnocentric-Absolutist-Mythic.  Here one goes beyond the egocentric isolation of Red and comes to identify with one's group.  For Red, what's right is what one says is right.  For Blue/Amber, what's right is what one's group says is right, whether that group be a religion, culture, family, etc.  Whatever the group identifies with, the person at this level is absolutist in their orientation -- their group is infallible and everything they say is gospel.  Everything is sharply divided between good and evil.  One cannot take any perspective outside of one's group.  Culturally, this was the level at which the first empires were created.  While tribes were held together by family ties, empires required a common mythology to bind together disparate factions.  Hence, this is also the level of mythic consciousness.  Examples of Blue/Amber figures include Pat Robertson, Joseph de Maistre, Benjamin Netanyahu, and George W. Bush.

Orange:
Wordcentric-Rational-Multiplistic-Achievist.  At this stage, one is able to critically analyze the critique the values of one's own group(not reflexively rebel against them, as Red does).  Although every stage contains its own form of logic(and indeed there have been some very bright Blue/Amber thinkers), it is this stage which can be properly thought of as "rational."  At this stage, every person is subject to moral consideration -- there is no "in-group" that is special and more worthy than another.  There is still right and wrong, but there is now subtlety and nuance, and ethics are something to be analyzed and arrived at through reason, rather than a priori givens.  There is an emphasis on achievement at this level, but it is more sophisticated than the mere power obsession of people at Red.  This level of consciousness is associated with the rise of science, the Industrial Revolution, and the Age of Enlightenment.  Examples include John Locke, Richard Dawkins, Ayn Rand, and John Stuart Mill.

Green:
Relativistic-Pluralistic-Egalitarian.  Here, one is able to entertain not only multiple perspectives, but multiple truths.  One is able to understand cultural context -- that one's beliefs and values are not constructed in a vacuum, but constructed in a cultural-linguistic setting, which will necessarily color one's own belief structures.  They develop a relativistic stance toward other cultural value systems -- seeing them as valid even if they conflict with one's own cultural values.  At this level, there tends to be a revulsion against hierarchy, and a tendency toward egalitarianism, at least in terms of respecting others' beliefs.  At the extreme, one might even go so far as to deny objective truth altogether.  This level of consciousness came to prominence in the 1960's.  Examples include Friedrich Nietzche, Michel Foucalt, Jaques Derrida, Carl Jung, and Robert Anton Wilson.

Yellow/Teal:
Systemic-Integrative.  Here, hierarchy reemerges as the pluralism realized at green is integrated into an actualization hierarchy, where worldviews are seen in developmental context.  One comes to understand the worldviews of different levels as hierarchically ranked, none of them necessarily correct or incorrect, but partial.  There are higher level truths which transcend and include lower level truths, but no truth is ever final.  Perspectives are seen from an evolutionary meta-perspective.  Examples include G. F. W. Hegel, Alfred North Whitehead, James Mark Baldwin, and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

Turquoise:
Holistic-Integral.  At this stage, one is able to organize the actualization hierarchies realized at Yellow/Teal into 1st-person, 2nd-person, and 3rd-person perspectives -- that is, subject, inter-subjective, and objective.  One becomes aware of different kinds of knowing, based on different forms of perspective-taking.  Examples include Ken Wilber, Sri Aurobindo, Christian de Quincey, and William Irwin Thompson.


Notice that each level is defined in terms of its ability to take perspectives.  Also note that each level transcends and includes its predecessor.  Each level, once transcended, becomes the object of the subject at the next level.  Each level includes the perspectives of all those levels beneath it, though there is a tendency to disown those lower levels, particularly the level immediately beneath one's own level.  Also, since one does not tend to be aware of anything beyond one's own level of awareness, there is a tendency to confuse higher levels with lower ones -- a mistake known as the pre/trans fallacy.  Blue/Amber confuses Orange's free thinking and achievement orientation with Red's impulsive rebelliousness.  Green confuses Yellow/Teal's integrated holarchy of values with the linear dominator hierarchy of Orange values.  Also, categorizing people as being at simply one level can be overly simplistic, as there are numerous different lines of development -- cognitive, interpersonal, psychosexual, emotional, moral, etc. -- and people will tend to be more advanced in one area than another.  For example, terrorists tend to be people who are cognitively Blue/Amber while morally Red.  One consistent thing about the lines of development is that the cognitive line always leads the others -- you can't reach a level in any other line until you first become aware of it.  Finally, I don't want you to get the impression that Turquoise is the final omega point.  There is no omega point.  Consciousness continues to evolve, and will continue to take on more perspectives.


--------------------

Edited by Silversoul (06/30/09 10:45 AM)

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10595796 - 06/30/09 01:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I like the layout.. I feel like the last three, however, are much less significant in their differences than the first three... it seems like their recency has made them seem different from eachother when in fact they are merely a complexification of Orange level, thanks to explosions in paradigms and terminologies.

I dont think you can go any further than Green. The last two seem like more developed notions of the green concept of multiple truth. I think someone who merely remains in green stage is not thinking enough, because if you can accept multiple truths you have to accept multiple conditions for truth and if you start thinking about this you will end up generating a system for relating the relative strengths of truths or the perspectives from which certain truths can appear or not. ?

though i havnt read the book, what do you think? do you think the last few are more divided simply because there is more recent data available to distinguish them?

I feel like essentially after Green stage, people could potentially generate meta-meta-meta accounts of truth and these would come across as different 'stages of development' or somethin

when actually they seem more like highly complex versions of the same basic idea: that truths are relative, and so is our discussion of them


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OfflineLion
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Noteworthy]
    #10596574 - 06/30/09 07:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Interesting read Silversoul, thanks.  I am however a little off-put at the audacity of classifying all these famous names, many of whom lived long before the authors of this theory.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineApostraphe
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Lion]
    #10596785 - 06/30/09 09:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Neat stuff. Would you recommend reading the entire book? Furthermore, have you or would you recommend any of the "Turquoise" writers listed? I'm really not familiar with any of their work, but I feel like reading it is the only way to actually get a handle on the contrast between the last three levels...

great post.

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Apostraphe]
    #10596846 - 06/30/09 09:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

How can we use this?

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Fraggin]
    #10597152 - 06/30/09 10:55 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Lion said:
Interesting read Silversoul, thanks.  I am however a little off-put at the audacity of classifying all these famous names, many of whom lived long before the authors of this theory.



Well, the theory is supposed to describe tendencies already present within people, and I find we can get a certain sense of where they're at from their work.  And obviously these classifications aren't exact, as people have different lines of development.  Also, one shouldn't think that these are strict categories set in stone -- there can be many sub-levels within each level, and you can use more or fewer levels depending on how accurate you want to be.  I had thought about classifying posters here within this framework, but figured that could get ugly really fast.

Quote:

Apostraphe said:
Neat stuff. Would you recommend reading the entire book? Furthermore, have you or would you recommend any of the "Turquoise" writers listed? I'm really not familiar with any of their work, but I feel like reading it is the only way to actually get a handle on the contrast between the last three levels...



Well, I haven't read Beck and Cowan's book yet.  I know Spiral Dynamics mainly through Ken Wilber's books, which I highly recommend.  Also, don't feel that just because some authors are at higher levels than others means that you can't get something out of the previous levels.  I very much enjoy Robert Anton Wilson's works, even though I would put him clearly in Green territory.

Quote:

Fraggin said:
How can we use this?



Excellent question.  I think it can help us to understand where people are coming from.  If we can talk to people at the level they're at, we can help build consensus and accomplish things more readily.  For example, the Green meme has dominated the environmental movement for a long time(pretty fitting when you think about it), and they've framed their case for environmentalism in terms of Green values, which has put off a lot of Orange-meme businesses.  If, however, you do what Amory Lovins at the Rocky Mountain Institute has done in terms of explaining how eco-efficiency can be profitable, suddenly they're all ears.  People at Blue/Amber can't take that kind of global perspective, but they understand the language of morality, so you might talk to them in strong, absolutist moral terms.

Spiral Dynamics is a part of the Integral movement, which is spawning several sub-disciplines, such as integral ecology, integral economics, integral psychology, etc.


--------------------

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597317 - 06/30/09 11:29 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I always chuckle when theorists place themselves atop their own pyramid, or in this case, spiral. Of course you're the most evolved! :wink:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineLion
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597325 - 06/30/09 11:30 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Lion said:
Interesting read Silversoul, thanks.  I am however a little off-put at the audacity of classifying all these famous names, many of whom lived long before the authors of this theory.



Well, the theory is supposed to describe tendencies already present within people, and I find we can get a certain sense of where they're at from their work.  And obviously these classifications aren't exact, as people have different lines of development.  Also, one shouldn't think that these are strict categories set in stone -- there can be many sub-levels within each level, and you can use more or fewer levels depending on how accurate you want to be.  I had thought about classifying posters here within this framework, but figured that could get ugly really fast.


Yeah, that would probably become contentious. :laugh:  At any rate, you could ask people where (or if) they see themselves in these categories...Reading them, I find a bit of my being in all of them, though probably more concentrated in the green-and-lower levels.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Kickle]
    #10597426 - 06/30/09 11:57 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I always chuckle when theorists place themselves atop their own pyramid, or in this case, spiral. Of course you're the most evolved! :wink:



The point is that there is no top of the pyramid.  It keeps on going, my little Green friend. :wink:

These are all tendencies which have been describe, in varying terms, by a whole gamut of developmental psychologists.  Ken Wilber actually adds a third tier(Teal and Turquoise comprising the second tier).  I have left that part out because so few people are at that level that there's very little I could say about it(I have a hard enough time describing Turquoise).  In any case, some real exciting news is that developmentalists predict that within the next decade or so, 10% of humanity will be at Teal.  That doesn't sound like much, but 10% seems to be major threshold. When 10% of humanity was at Orange, the American and French Revolutions happened, and when 10% was at Green, we had the 1960's counterculture.  So having 10% at Teal should be very interesting indeed.


--------------------

Edited by Silversoul (06/30/09 12:07 PM)

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597540 - 06/30/09 12:22 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
The point is that there is no top of the pyramid.  It keeps on going, my little Green friend. :wink:




Whether or not they will always be atop such a theory is irrelevant. And prior to your mention of this mysterious third tier, they appeared to be, in their own eyes, the most evolved of our species.

That's all I was getting at. It's something to be taken into consideration when viewing such a theory, and something that I'd hope they'd address, if they're truly past the Green stage of things.

And simply saying "others will surpass this" is not, in my mind, a sufficient explanation for why this theory conveniently places the theorists atop the current evolutionary ladder.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Kickle]
    #10597555 - 06/30/09 12:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
The point is that there is no top of the pyramid.  It keeps on going, my little Green friend. :wink:




Whether or not they will always be atop such a theory is irrelevant. And prior to your mention of this mysterious third tier, they appeared to be, in their own eyes, the most evolved of our species.

That's all I was getting at. It's something to be taken into consideration when viewing such a theory, and something that I'd hope they'd address, if they're truly past the Green stage of things.

And simply saying "others will surpass this" is not, in my mind, a sufficient explanation for why this theory conveniently places the theorists atop the current evolutionary ladder.



These theorists have not actually claimed to be at the top of this ladder.  That's an inference I've made from their work.  As I said, it's difficult to describe the levels which are above you, because you haven't become aware of them yet.  If anything, my criticism of Ken Wilber is his postulating of higher levels without having an adequate description of them.


--------------------

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597603 - 06/30/09 12:39 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Which is what I'm getting at. We're only seeing what the theorist himself is capable of describing. A limited view, and one which revolves around the theorists perspective of the world.

And again, I'd hope they would address this limitation, especially if they have already mastered the Green level of viewing the world.

It's possible that someone in the future who surpasses their level of viewing, will rewrite such a theory from an entirely different perspective, changing everything.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (06/30/09 12:40 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Kickle]
    #10597622 - 06/30/09 12:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
It's possible that someone in the future who surpasses their level of viewing, will rewrite such a theory from an entirely different perspective, changing everything.



Ken Wilber has basically said as much.  He expects that someday humanity will evolve a level of consciousness which transcends the level of consciousness at which Integral Theory is directed, and be able to incorporate it into higher levels of perspective.


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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597678 - 06/30/09 12:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

So the utility is in believing Ken Wilber is in fact more evolved than the general public, and has insight into the nature of everything below himself.

But what if we give credit to the fact that Ken Wilber may not be any more advanced than anyone else, and instead that his theory is a way of arranging his view of the world in such a way that his world view becomes more advanced than that of others'. That this arrangement, while logical, is nothing but an ego fulfillment.

Do we still find utility, because his arrangement is logical? Or is it now called into question, because logic may not be the end all of describing humanity, as you and he both admit.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597822 - 06/30/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

This seems to have less to do with human development than a particular theory about morality and moral training.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Kickle]
    #10597835 - 06/30/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
So the utility is in believing Ken Wilber is in fact more evolved than the general public, and has insight into the nature of everything below himself.

But what if we give credit to the fact that Ken Wilber may not be any more advanced than anyone else, and instead that his theory is a way of arranging his view of the world in such a way that his world view becomes more advanced than that of others'. That this arrangement, while logical, is nothing but an ego fulfillment.



Should we throw out something logical, simply because it supposedly fulfills the ego?  Ken Wilber did not construct this theory out of nothing.  He simply integrated a number of different theories that were saying essentially similar things.

Quote:

Do we still find utility, because his arrangement is logical? Or is it now called into question, because logic may not be the end all of describing humanity, as you and he both admit.



The fact that no truth is ever final does not detract from the partial truths realized at each level.  The whole point of this developmental hierarchy is that each level has its own partial truths -- truth is never final.  So the fact that these truths will one day need to be transcended does not in any way detract from their conditional validity.


--------------------

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10597938 - 06/30/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Should we throw out something logical, simply because it supposedly fulfills the ego?




No, but I think remaining skeptical would be wise.

Quote:

The fact that no truth is ever final does not detract from the partial truths realized at each level.  The whole point of this developmental hierarchy is that each level has its own partial truths -- truth is never final.  So the fact that these truths will one day need to be transcended does not in any way detract from their conditional validity.




That is assuming that this theory is correct, and that this hierarchy is transcending the limitations of the individual perspective. How can one say that each level has partial truths, and will continue to, if we recognize the limitations imposed on such a theory from the start?

I am skeptical that this idea of partial truths has any transcendent validity to it at all.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Kickle]
    #10598463 - 06/30/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I am skeptical that this idea of partial truths has any transcendent validity to it at all.

One would have to somehow know what was partially  true and what was not. From the looks of the human condition in 2009 I would conclude we don't know what is true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Silversoul]
    #10598662 - 06/30/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I had thought about classifying posters here within this framework, but figured that could get ugly really fast.

My thinking machine is hungry; what colour would you say Bernackums falls under? :laugh:


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

Edited by Bernackums (06/30/09 04:12 PM)

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: An Introduction to Spiral Dynamics [Re: Bernackums]
    #10598956 - 06/30/09 05:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
I had thought about classifying posters here within this framework, but figured that could get ugly really fast.

My thinking machine is hungry; what colour would you say Bernackums falls under? :laugh:



Indeterminate.  I haven't followed your posts closely enough to tell.


--------------------

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