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Offlineblah
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Emotion vs Logic
    #10436999 - 06/01/09 06:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

so...i've realized the heart's in the right place, but the mind isnt. some people mean to do good but their methods are so reckless that they can put others in danger or drive them away eventually. i feel the nature and complexities of the initial goal is so complex or difficult that it causes their mind to be reckless due to how complicated the situation may be. their heads are unclear and their thoughts are not straight..as in a semi-state of panic. as well, you know how as the panic increases so does the adrenaline, drugging your body and making your reactions launch based off the first reckless thing that comes to mind.
so based off human nature, what is stronger, the power of emotion or logic?

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OfflineCubie
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: blah]
    #10437015 - 06/01/09 06:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Focus on the positive emotions and always use logic. Balance is the key young grasshopper.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: blah]
    #10437042 - 06/01/09 06:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

so based off human nature, what is stronger, the power of emotion or logic?

I would like to say logic is stronger...but the raw power of emotion seems to trump all.

If only we were all Vulcan :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineEyelessVagabond
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: trendal]
    #10437947 - 06/01/09 09:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

take a look at "Bechara's gambling task", emotion trumps logic (at least from a psychological view).


--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: EyelessVagabond]
    #10438171 - 06/01/09 10:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm confused by the question (and I never did understand the Vulcan race). Emotions are not actions, and actions are not emotions. Neither is logic action, nor action logic. So neither is more powerful until they are given life by the individual.

Isn't that what mindfulness is all about? Realizing that emotions are simply a reaction to an event, which you then choose how to express? Do we not employ logic to determine how to express the emotion? We're not computers (my biggest fault with Vulcans, they focus too much on analysis of incomplete information) and we do not problem solve algorithmically. We operate on heuristics, that which comes quickest to mind. That which is most readily available is the most prominent in thought. This applies to any logic we attempt to apply as well. We can not take in every possibility in a situation, so we react according to what has worked in the past, or we generalize to what we believe will work. That is the basis for our logic, and our logic determines our emotional reactions.

Unfortunately there are snags in heuristic processing. When we encounter a situation which seems similar, and we therefore generalize our prior knowledge to it, it may or may not work.

An example:
As a child, you witnessed your parents fighting. This caused a negative emotional response. You naturally defended yourself by leaving the area of conflict, or tuning the argument out. This makes logical sense -- touch a stove once, that's enough. No need to keep touching the stove.

However, in the future, when you enter a relationship of your own, you will find yourself in a similar, yet in terms of roles, different, situation. When an argument fires up between you and your significant other, your first reaction will probably be to return to your old habits of withdrawing, which were so adaptive as a child. Unfortunately, they are no longer so adaptive. Without the necessary communication, the conflict remains unresolved, and like a splinter that is never removed, begins to cause further issues.

You were simply responding to the emotion in the same way you always had. What started out as a logically deduced way to cope with a situation, has now led to problems. It's not that you lacked logic in this situation. Not at all. It's that the information you were using was heuristically based, and you were missing out on the new information presented. That's why we must continue to learn.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

Edited by Kickle (06/01/09 10:04 PM)

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Invisibleshowme
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Kickle]
    #10449222 - 06/03/09 06:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Great posts...

Emotion definitely trumps me.


--------------------
Imagination is the organ of meaning.

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Invisibleblkjkrabbit

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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: showme]
    #10451931 - 06/04/09 02:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

logomotion

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OfflineDiaboleros
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: blkjkrabbit]
    #10452122 - 06/04/09 04:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Emotion is logic. There is always a reason behind every emotion. Unless you have Tourette syndrome.

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OfflineBooby
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: blah]
    #10452173 - 06/04/09 05:05 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Only in U.S court-rooms, as far as I know, does logic stand a chance against emotion.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Booby]
    #10455341 - 06/04/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Religious people usually tend to argue emotionally, and it really makes it hard to take thems seriously...:hehehe:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Poid]
    #10456998 - 06/04/09 09:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Religious people usually tend to argue emotionally, and it really makes it hard to take thems seriously...:hehehe:




Try talking politics at a bar sometime... it ain't just religious people.  :lol:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: deCypher]
    #10457018 - 06/04/09 09:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Lots of bar-goers are self-proclaimed Christians, are they not? :naughty:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineCubie
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Poid]
    #10457025 - 06/04/09 09:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I also think parrots are the shit.

Logic over emotion at all times. Best way to live life is balance though.

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Cubie]
    #10457032 - 06/04/09 09:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Equilibrium, baby! :yinyang2:



--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineEyelessVagabond
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Poid]
    #10457367 - 06/04/09 10:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

gotta disagree on the whole, of all the decisions you make in a day how many decisions are logical?  Yes we are capable of making them (logical decisions) to choose our course of action, but how often do we logically think things through?  Throughout a day how many things do we do simply because we feel like it, are obligated to, need to, or are told to; compared to how many things we do while constructing the logical reason behind it?

We as a species are not logical to the slightest, every generation creates a new paradigm to call logic only to forsake it again in a decade.  Furthermore, how many logical decisions are made to fulfill emotional or societal obligations/wants?


--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: EyelessVagabond]
    #10457590 - 06/04/09 11:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"Throughout a day how many things do we do simply because we feel like it, are obligated to, need to, or are told to; compared to how many things we do while constructing the logical reason behind it?"

Just because we do things for those reasons doesn't mean that there is no logic involved.


"We as a species are not logical to the slightest, every generation creates a new paradigm to call logic only to forsake it again in a decade.  Furthermore, how many logical decisions are made to fulfill emotional or societal obligations/wants?"

Can you provide some examples where a generation had forsaken a paradigm that they called logic after only a decade?

Many logical decisions are made to fulfill societal obligations/wants....


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: blah]
    #10457695 - 06/05/09 12:21 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blah said:
so...i've realized the heart's in the right place, but the mind isnt. some people mean to do good but their methods are so reckless that they can put others in danger or drive them away eventually. i feel the nature and complexities of the initial goal is so complex or difficult that it causes their mind to be reckless due to how complicated the situation may be. their heads are unclear and their thoughts are not straight..as in a semi-state of panic. as well, you know how as the panic increases so does the adrenaline, drugging your body and making your reactions launch based off the first reckless thing that comes to mind.
so based off human nature, what is stronger, the power of emotion or logic?




Is the heart always in the right place?
If some people mean to do good, does that imply some mean to do bad?

I think being able to remain calm is both logical, and an emotional skill. Logic and emotion both come from the same source, so how can one be stronger? Chicken or egg?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineEyelessVagabond
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Rahz]
    #10459350 - 06/05/09 11:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Naturally I can't argue logic vs. emotion for you as an individual, so in general here's what I believe...

Definition of logic from Dictionary.com: "The science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference" => In essence the definition regards human beings ability to predict the future (based on inference).  Scientific, economic, and political thought change every decade, hence my statement that the paradigm of logic changes every decade; especially in this century.

Your first statement I'm forced again to refer to the "Bechara's Gambling Task".  This offers fairly conclusive evidence of a link between so called logical thought and action (most particularly that one can exist without the other).  Furthermore it illustrates a localization of logical "thought to action" in the brain.  However this part of the brain (orbitalprefrontal cortex) also interacts heavily with the limbic system (emotional center) of the brain => heavily indicating that logical and emotional thought are heavily integrated/inseparable.  This is an oversimplification but gotta at least try to keep things short.

Of course if you believe that the universe itself behaves in a logical way => i.e. knowing the starting point you can determine the end, then it follows that even emotional thought/action is in itself logical.  However I believe that the discussion is attempting to focus on logic to the point in weather or not the individual fully analyzes and thinks through the consequences of his actions and human beings being largely creatures of habit who rely heavily on pattern recognition and past experience to formulate decisions, rarely do this.


--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: EyelessVagabond]
    #10459426 - 06/05/09 11:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EyelessVagabond said:
However I believe that the discussion is attempting to focus on logic to the point in weather or not the individual fully analyzes and thinks through the consequences of his actions and human beings being largely creatures of habit who rely heavily on pattern recognition and past experience to formulate decisions, rarely do this.





Even if an individual takes the time to think through potential consequences, there is still the possibility for consequences which were unforeseeable. So it is always an incomplete picture, regardless of if the extra thought is given or not.

Further, in situations where time is important in the outcome, an individual who weighs all the potential consequences they can muster is going to experience a different outcome than an individual who acts without consciously thinking the matter through. In fact, the individual who acted without consciously thinking the matter through might act in a way that the analytical individual did not even consider, for after considerations, the time for such action was gone, and it was no longer a plausible response.

Basically, I'm saying that logic is never complete, and in some cases may limit solutions. And to the extent that humans can use logic in an adaptive manor, we already do.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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OfflineEyelessVagabond
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Re: Emotion vs Logic [Re: Kickle]
    #10460646 - 06/06/09 10:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'll agree with the above, this discussion quickly became much more complicated than I thought the matter was.  Interesting how that tends to happen.


--------------------
Do what you will, this world's a fiction
And is made up of contradiction
-William Blake

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