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 iamyour_messiah
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 having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz 
#10426033 - 05/30/09 04:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey,
I'm living in the Netherlands right now, and as prevalent as weed and mushrooms might be here, it's quite a hassle finding the right growing "ingredients". Truth be told, this has been a problem anywhere in Europe that I've lived, and at times I get really frustrated that I'm not living in the US!!
Anyway, I've got the peat and the vermiculite and now I'm trying to find something to raise the pH a bit. I've grown mushrooms before using just potting soil + sand as a casing for lack of better materials, and that worked remarkably well actually.
Still I wanna try to perfect it this time around. I bought a box of some white granular stuff at a garden center. In dutch it's called 'kalk' which is CaCO3 or chalk, and the box says it is used for raising the pH. However, it also mentions that the stuff has 7% magnesium oxide (MgO) mixed in as well as other beneficial bacteria (Azotobacter spp.) Although I'm sure this is great for one's lawn (thats what the product is marketed for), I'm doubtful as to whether these extra additives might not have a detrimental effect on the mushrooms/mycelium.
Then today I saw another product in the grocery store in the pet section. Translated the name would literally mean "shell sand". So basically its ground up shells. I check the composition and it said ground oyster shells as well as other kinds of seashells AND extra added minerals or smth like that (for the birds' health i guess). Would this be OK to use, or would the extra minerals added to it possibly make the casing too "rich"??
Thanks in advance, and apologies for the long question!!
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 Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist
Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10426084 - 05/30/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Shell sand is probably oyster shells, which is fine to add. Also you may consider looking for 'hydrated lime' (make sure it's not dolomitic lime by checking for magnesium)
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: Shroominit]
#10426249 - 05/30/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ok well the 'shell sand' is indeed ground up oyster shell, except that it also contains other types of ground seashells + 'beneficial minerals'. The addition of other types of seashells doesn't worry me too much, as I believe most shells are made up of pretty much the same substance (CaCO3, i assume??). Its just the added minerals which I'm unsure of.
If I knew a place to find hydrated lime I would have gone for that, but I don't know where to find it. At least not at my local garden center (and it's one of the bigger ones in the region)
Your comment about not wanting dolomitic lime because of its magnesium content has me thinking that magnesium is not something you want much of. Should I just go ahead and assume that the stuff (chalk) I bought at my garden center with 7% MgO added is a bad idea???
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist
Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10426279 - 05/30/09 05:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I read that anything over 2-3% magnesium is potentially harmful.
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Epilson Lyrae
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Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 5,561
Loc: Woody Creek
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10426289 - 05/30/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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If it is just an issue of PH. Either raising or lowering, Your helpful garden center employees can tell you what you can use for each application. PH adjustment should only be used for a specific purpose and if in fact you know what that purpose is, there are no 10 commandments saying "use only this or only that." So there are many options available to you.
best of luck
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"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." H.T.
I've come to believe that the heart is the filter of the enlightened mind. Epilson Lyrae
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist
Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10426315 - 05/30/09 05:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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That is a great idea when working with plants, but not as much for mushrooms. Unless the person knows about mushroom farming they will likely give you bad advice. Just my $0.02.
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10426340 - 05/30/09 06:02 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well the people at the garden center, when I asked where I could find something to raise the pH (actually for their ease I said 'make the soil less acidic') directed me to their section of fertilizers and soil additives.
I browsed around for a good 20 minutes at all their products. Most were either just straight up fertilizers (N-P-K) or other types of products to combat pests i the soil etc etc.... The only thing I found that worked (on the basis of some type of calcium substance) was this which I bought....chalk with 7% MgO added. If anything over 2-3% magnesium content is harmful I'm gonna play it safe and not use that product.
My best bet would then be to just use this 'shell sand' I saw in the store?? I did read in one of the FAQs on here that anyoyster shell sold at a pet/feedstore was OK, so if that's the case I should be alright, right?
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Shroominit
Part Time Mycologist
Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 4,662
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10426366 - 05/30/09 06:08 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I would go for it, what's the worst it could do?
Edit to clarify, this response was to the oyster shells.
Edited by Shroominit (05/30/09 08:32 PM)
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RogerRabbit
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: Shroominit]
#10426955 - 05/30/09 08:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Over 3% Mg is bad, and over 5% will inhibit the growth of mycelium. This has been known for decades. That's why we don't use lime from dolomite formations, nor do we take mushroom advice from some kid at a garden center.
You can use the oyster shells, but they won't effect the pH very much. Calcium hydroxide is what you really want, since it will raise the pH immediately, and has a very low Mg content.
You might look into forgetting the whole idea of casing, and simply spawn to horse or cow manure and fruit it uncased. Cubes don't benefit much from a casing layer unless you're trying to fruit plain grains. If you go the bulk substrate route, you don't need a pH buffer. Adding gypsum(calcium sulfate) always helps production, rather in casings or bulk substrates.
RR
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CH HELL
Brain Sturgeon
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Posts: 6,610
Loc: mars 
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10427019 - 05/30/09 08:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Wow I actually agree with RR either go uncased or you can throw some crushed oyster shells in your substrate. I you layer you sub/spawn then the top layer can be suplimented with crushed oyster shell, its not a casing layer but try it.
CH
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: CH HELL]
#10428892 - 05/31/09 09:49 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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In that case, what is all this talk of crushed oyster shells being used in casing mixes if it's not of much use?
Also what is calcium hydroxide commonly sold as? Or rather, in what type of store could I find it? I can definitely forget about going to my garden center and hoping to find a big bag marked 'calcium hydroxide,' cause they certainly don't have it.....
(For the record, I didnt take some random kids word for it at the garden center. I used my own judgment in picking that product, which I was fully aware was likely to be flawed/wrong :P )
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iamyour_messiah
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Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10428967 - 05/31/09 10:14 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Actually, I just found out what calcium hydroxide is called in dutch. And that it's mostly sold at like do-it-yourself construction type stores. It seems there are even quite a few different brand names available.
One product I found is called 'Decorcal' and consists of Ca(OH)2 and crushed shells. I figure that's kinda like hitting 2 birds with 1 stone??? Calcium hydroxide to raise the pH and the crushed shell to fortify the structure of the casing (read smth in the 50/50+ guide how the oyster shells increase the integrity of the casing mix and make it so that you don't rip out large patches when harvesting the fruits)
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Scucci
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10428978 - 05/31/09 10:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you have any fish stores around you that deal with saltwater fish and corals, check for a product called "kalkwasser", it's used as a drip for pH buffering and adding calcium. It's 100% pure calcium hydroxide.
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"Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom - go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!" - Samuel Adams; Speech at the State House, Philadelphia, August 1, 1776
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Premedman1
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Re: having trouble finding the right ingredients to buffer the casing mix!! help plz [Re: Scucci]
#10429002 - 05/31/09 10:23 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Calcium hydroxide is commonly referred to as "hydrated lime" or "slaked lime". Pickling lime will work if the Mg content is low enough.
Again, fruiting Cubensis uncased negates the need for buffers altogether.
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Build a man a fire, he is warm for the night. Set a man on fire, he is warm for the rest of his life.
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