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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
Richard Dawkins has found Jesus!
    #10418715 - 05/29/09 09:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

And His name is Natural Selection.

http://www.arn.org/docs/dawkins.mpg <- download

Transcript:

Jonathan Miller: Something has to explain the novelties themselves.

Richard Dawkins: Well, the novelties themselves, of course, are genetic variations in the gene pool which ultimately come from mutation and more proximately come from sexual re-combination. There’s nothing very inventive or ingenious about those novelties, I mean they are random. And they mostly are deleterious (most mutations are bad). So you really need to focus on natural selection as the positive side and its only natural selection that produces living things, which have the illusion of design. The illusion of design does not come from the novelty.

JM: What was it about that early novelty, before it culminated in something as useful as a feather? Where could natural selection get its purchase upon something which was no more than a pimple?

RD: There cannot have been intermediate stages which were not beneficial. There’s no room in natural selection for the sort of, um, foresight argument – that says well we’ve got to let it persist for the next million years and it’ll start becoming useful. That doesn’t work. There’s got to be a selection pressure all the way.

JM: So there isn’t a process, as it were, going on in the cell saying look be patient…

RD: No…

JM: …it’s going to be a feather - believe me!

RD: Yes, that’s right, yes.

RD: It doesn’t happen like that... there’s got to be a series of advantages all the way in the feather. If you can’t think of one, then that’s your problem not…not, not natural selection’s problem. Natural selection…well I suppose that is a sort of matter of faith on my part since the theory is so coherent and so, and so powerful.

Well, gooooooolly!  At least he's admitted it.  Rumor has it the Master has also said some positive things about Intelligent Design.



We'll get to the part about Antony Flew later.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10418722 - 05/29/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I find myself more likely to believe natural selection than intelligent design or creationism, but I wouldn't necessarily say I have faith in it.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Offlinemonkeywrench
Why Not?


Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 908
Last seen: 29 days, 47 seconds
Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: deCypher]
    #10418751 - 05/29/09 10:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

faith scmaith


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[quote]skalthren said:
It's nice of you to imply that I've been brainwashed by the government, but the truth is that I'm simply intelligent enough to recognize the subtleties of these issues instead of going "durr hurr, weed should totally be legal!"[/quote]

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10421756 - 05/29/09 08:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow. What's your point?


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I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlineyoubreakyoubuy
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Registered: 10/16/05
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: zouden]
    #10422427 - 05/29/09 10:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The tao cannot be named.


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Let that which doesn't matter truly not matter.

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Offlinedill705
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Registered: 12/10/07
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10425222 - 05/30/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

and...


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My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end.

-Icelander-

I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW!

~dill705~

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OfflinePed
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: dill705]
    #10430063 - 05/31/09 02:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Richard backs evolution through natural selection because the view is internally consistent and grounded in verifyable, tangible data.  He has never claimed to understand the intricate nuances of life's development entirely.  Instead, he has pledged himself to the pursuit of that truth, whatever it may turn out to be.  Remaining open to the truth without prejudice or clinging is proper definition of faith: it is a total willingness, and therefore total capability, of seeing the truth directly.

On the other hand, religious faith (or, at least, the modern understanding of it), has decided from the outset what the truth is without any critical analysis or any amalgamation of evidence, and has set about imposing that view on the surrounding environment.  Rather than remaining open to the truth, which would equip one to find it, these religious sorts have given the truth over to authority.  This is the exact opposite of faith, and is in fact obstructive to the advancement of all inward and outward knowledge.

I don't see anything about Richard's talk that connects him with the kind of faith that is opposite to the advancement of knowledge.


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Ped]
    #10430594 - 05/31/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

When one has no argument one goes for the long-winded ad hominem which, even if true, has no bearing on the main point of discussion. It is merely another distraction technique when one has nothing of substance to offer.


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OfflinePed
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Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10431752 - 05/31/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

What?


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:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Ped]
    #10431839 - 05/31/09 08:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Not you, the OP.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Richard Dawkins has found Jesus! [Re: Ped]
    #10434585 - 06/01/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ped said:
Richard backs evolution through natural selection because the view is internally consistent and grounded in verifyable, tangible data.  He has never claimed to understand the intricate nuances of life's development entirely.  Instead, he has pledged himself to the pursuit of that truth, whatever it may turn out to be.  Remaining open to the truth without prejudice or clinging is proper definition of faith: it is a total willingness, and therefore total capability, of seeing the truth directly.

On the other hand, religious faith (or, at least, the modern understanding of it), has decided from the outset what the truth is without any critical analysis or any amalgamation of evidence, and has set about imposing that view on the surrounding environment.  Rather than remaining open to the truth, which would equip one to find it, these religious sorts have given the truth over to authority.  This is the exact opposite of faith, and is in fact obstructive to the advancement of all inward and outward knowledge.

I don't see anything about Richard's talk that connects him with the kind of faith that is opposite to the advancement of knowledge.




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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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