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bob5
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo
#10395292 - 05/25/09 09:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i was wandering how crucial it is that you get it to and keep it on 170f.? is less or more really bad..... because i don't have a meat thermometer.. and can't measure the temperature. is it even do-able without one?
thanks b
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noggin
jiggly
Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 228
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10395350 - 05/25/09 10:10 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think 170F is too high.
You want 140-160 for an hour. Meat thermometers are cheap.
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ozzysmygod
Late Night PC'ing Enthusiast
Registered: 11/26/08
Posts: 835
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10395354 - 05/25/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Pasteurizing temps are between 140F and 180F. Any higher will kill the beneficial bacteria in the substrate. Any lower and pasteurization will not be complete, which may lead to contamination.
Get a thermometer, or borrow one. Jam, Candy, Home brew beer, Meat thermometers are all fine, anything that goes up to 200F will suffice
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bob5
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: ozzysmygod]
#10396037 - 05/25/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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okey doke...
thanks
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george castanza
Lord Of The Idiots!
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 8,743
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10396062 - 05/25/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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or you could just use your ovens lowest setting, that should work(so long as it is 180 or lower).
-------------------- KRAMER CAKES
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Livingston
Space Ranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: george castanza]
#10396389 - 05/25/09 02:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey again Bob5
There are two different ranges posted above. Use 140-160F. Do not go above 165F. Do not let your water go above 160F or the outside of the sub can get too hot.
If you are using biologically active, healthy compost I would pasteurize at 140-150F for 3 hours or 150-160F for 2 hours. The reason is healthy compost holds millions of microbes. And mycelium uses microbes for protein and chitosan. The longer pasteurization times kills or makes dormant more microbes which mean a greater amount of fungal food.
Phase II and Phase III compost production facility commonly use 140F for 4 hours. By the 2nd hour the center is 140F so they let it pasteurize for 2 additional hours past that first 2 hours.
FWIW: If you are using a different sub you could mix it up to field capacity and put it outside under a tree. It's important that you have some type of microbial food in there like coffee grounds, h.poo, etc. Find a bit of healthy soil in a forest or near streams, etc. Dig up some soil to about 3" and mix in a few handfuls with your bulk sub; or ideally use a handful of good compost. That's a ghetto yet effective way to add microbes to your bulk sub. Put a door screen over the container to keep flies away, and a lightly cover with a tarp to keep rain out. After a 3-5 days bring sub back to field capacity and pasteurize it.
For extra high levels of microbes add 1% malt extract powder or unsulfured blackstrap molasses to the water you use when moistening the bulk sub. Then place the bulk sub directly on top of healthy soil. Add a few handfuls of compost or healthy soil to the bulk sub and cover it with a tarp. Wait 3-5 days and bring sub back to field capacity and pasteurize. The longer you wait the more microbes you should have.
Good luck
-------------------- Peace and Pasta
Edited by Livingston (05/25/09 02:49 PM)
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Livingston
Space Ranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: george castanza]
#10396411 - 05/25/09 02:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi George,
(I love your nic!)
Quote:
george castanza said: or you could just use your ovens lowest setting, that should work(so long as it is 180 or lower).
Air is a poor conductor of heat, water is much better. I have read of many people having contamination issues when using the oven tek. That and it's takes a long time for the core to reach 140-160F.
Have you noticed any contamination issues with the oven tek? Thank you
Peace and Pasta
-------------------- Peace and Pasta
Edited by Livingston (05/25/09 05:46 PM)
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shponglecybin
Stranger
Registered: 09/04/08
Posts: 295
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: Livingston]
#10396524 - 05/25/09 03:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i decided just to pasteurize my horse manure by boiling in a pillowcase and reducing it to its lowest setting once it started slowly boiling as i couldn't get my hands on the rite thermometer for the job at the time. I've said before I'm not to worried about failure as its all a learning experience for the future,plus I'm well happy with the return i get from the cakes.
anyway,it could have failed(maybe it still has)but they look fine to me and have been fully colonized now for about a week,i may have just hit it lucky,but it does seem to have done the trick,for now anyway.
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bob5
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: shponglecybin]
#10396972 - 05/25/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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do you use a pot... or a pressure cooker?
if you where using a pressure cooker.. how would you know the temperature inside?
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River77
Ruler of the Next Free World
Registered: 05/09/09
Posts: 578
Loc: Among the Spore People.
Last seen: 5 years, 19 days
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10397126 - 05/25/09 04:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have read that youre suppose to be in between 175 and 185.
So what is the real temp? What is the highest you can go?
-------------------- Fine line between fishing, and standing on the shore with a pole in your hand.
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Livingston
Space Ranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: River77]
#10397464 - 05/25/09 05:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hi,
140-160F. 165F is the limit.
-------------------- Peace and Pasta
Edited by Livingston (05/25/09 05:59 PM)
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Livingston
Space Ranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10397547 - 05/25/09 05:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
bob5 said: because i don't have a meat thermometer.. and can't measure the temperature.
thanks b
Is there a Walmart near you? Or any large grocery store? They all carry them. It's worth it, you should try to pasteurize correctly...imagine all your hard work going to contam becuase you under or over pasteurized. Both have the same effect: Increased chance of contamination.
If you are doing bulk, have a Walmart near you and a range top I would suggest you get a meat thermometer ($5.00), they have a red rubber coating. Also get a 21 qt canning pot/rack. It's called a "Canner and Rack"; ($~20.00). The 21 qt canning pot can hold ~10 lbs very well. I fill it up about 1/3 with water and weight down the 10 lb bag of bulk sub.
Good luck!
-------------------- Peace and Pasta
Edited by Livingston (05/25/09 06:00 PM)
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bob5
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: Livingston]
#10400425 - 05/26/09 05:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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thanks man..
yeh - i live in the U.K wall-mart would be a bit of a bop...
but we do have grocery stores.. ^^ i'll check it out. gotta do it right.. or not do it, i suppose.
b
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noggin
jiggly
Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 228
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10400526 - 05/26/09 06:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I got a meat thermometer for 40 Rands. Thats about 3 pounds.
If you don't have lots of jars and a huge pot, buy some medium size oven roast bags, mix up your poo to field capacity, load the bags and seal em with an elastic.
Then whack in the thermometer, put the bags in a post of cold water, bring to the boil then down to a mild simmer. After about an hour you should be getting close to 60C or 140F. Then shut down the stove to 1. For another hour let it sit. Don't let it go over 160F (70C).
So the correct temperature is 140-160F or 60-70C THROUGHOUT the substrate for 1 hour. Get me?
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bob5
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 1,391
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: noggin]
#10400553 - 05/26/09 06:21 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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got ya..
thanks alot noggin
i can't wait to do a casing.. my cakes are going swell. i'll post a picture in a minute.
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FractalXplora
Grainiack
Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 2,494
Loc: UK
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: bob5]
#10400755 - 05/26/09 08:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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heres how to do it without a thermometer, i use one, stole it form a shite job i uised to have. lol., but have noticed this. Using "Large dose coir tek" which has to be the easiet fool proof pasterization tek out there. I would do it like this, get your poo or coir dump it in a large plastic bucket (5 gallon wine bin) is the king here. If you got two out one inside the other to retain the heat. This works very well. Pour a kettle or two of just boiled water in to, just enought to expand the coir / wet the poo through. Now boil maybe gallon or two of water, get it so its a rolling hard as fuck boil)this may involve the lid on for such a large pan) then you know for sure you at the 180 F mark. Simply get to that stage and pour the super boling water into the substrae bin,give it a good mix, but don't take your sweet time, lid on, few pre-drilled holes in the lid. stick it somewhere warm or room temp is normally fine, cover and wrap well with big heavy blanket or old curtain.
Leave for 2 hours then drain.
I can garentee you this mix will drop to around the 160 mark once filled and sit quite happily between 140 - 160 for two hours. Mine usally stays long time at the 150 f mark = perfect.
It dosen't matter how much boiling water you add as with a bit of practice, gafdfa tape or better still truck straps, you can easily, lol, well almost easily drain this sucker into another bin.
Careful here as Im sure im not the first one to see my heavy, boiling poo sub falling into the sink. Its hot, heavty and it burns your paws, so you need to lock that lid to the bin the best you can. Hence the tape, straps . I keep the extra poo water for tomatoes plants and stuff.
Needs to drain and cool for at least 7 hours, or preferably overnight.
Your mix will be perfect, moisture content not a issue.
Hope that helps.
--------------------
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Livingston
Space Ranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
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Re: how important is temperature in pasteurization of h.poo [Re: FractalXplora]
#10401146 - 05/26/09 09:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey guys,
I just want to caution the use of boiling water. Boiling water is way over 165F and that means it will over pasteurize the outside of the bulk sub. Making sure the water does not go over 165F is ideal. It takes a little longer to reach core temps but IMO it's worth it. Half measures leads to less than ideal success...
-------------------- Peace and Pasta
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