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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
Loc: Registered: 6/04/02
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What's wrong with Christians?
#10316423 - 05/10/09 09:52 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I was going over a mental list last night of all the Christians I have ever known. Most of them, with very few exceptions, were either nutters or assholes.
What's up with that?
These people, directed by their "Creator," are supposed to be ambassadors of Christ and emissaries of light and love.
I've tried to have Christian friends, it never works. Something always "explodes." I have a few friends, one is even a Christian. But our friendship is an old one going back to high school and we don't force our views on one another. We're "friends."
Just one highlarious example of a former Christian association:
Some time ago I was going through a really rough time. This Christian got wind of it and decided to "minister" me. He listened to my tale of woe (which was helpful) but when I wanted to get off the phone he wanted to pray over me. I declined the offer and he got furious! He said some rather unChristian things to me and slammed down the handset.
I never heard from him again.
Thank God.
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adrug
Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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I think a better question would be "What's wrong with people in general?". I've seen behavior like this from all demographics, Christian and otherwise.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: adrug]
#10316481 - 05/10/09 10:10 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Its beings caught in a sociocentric, or ethnocentric worldview, and not yet embracing a worldcentric view. Identifying with a group, my way is the only way - as opposed to mutual understanding and respect of others.
This is the major problem I find with the majority of people, whatever group they associate with.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: adrug]
#10316486 - 05/10/09 10:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I got that, adrug. But I am puzzled here for two reasons:
1) There seems to be a higher percentage of nutters and assholes within the Christian community.
2) These people, directed by their "Creator," are supposed to be ambassadors of Christ and emissaries of light and love.
I'm just going from personal experience but when a person goes out of their way to tell me they are a Christian when we meet and it has nothing to do with the context of our meeting, I know this person will screw me over one way or another if I let my guard down.
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Mr. Mushrooms
Spore Print Collector
Registered: 05/25/08
Posts: 13,018
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10316496 - 05/10/09 10:16 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
c0sm0nautt said: Its beings caught in a sociocentric, or ethnocentric worldview, and not yet embracing a worldcentric view. Identifying with a group, my way is the only way - as opposed to mutual understanding and respect of others.
This is the major problem I find with the majority of people, whatever group they associate with.
So the teaching, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me," is the reason? Then it may be what man's nature does with that claim rather than the claim itself.
What is a worldcentric view in your opinion?
The plurality of truth should cut across all barriers. Some religions are inferior to others.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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For starters, a person with a worldcentric view would realize the futility in trying to convert others. I think it goes hand and hand with the post-conventional morality.
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Tds
WHERES MY WATCH?!
Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 253
Loc: England
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10316759 - 05/10/09 11:29 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I go to church and would call myself a Christian. I'm not a very good Christian but I try. Recently I've been trying to nail down why I hate church and other Christians. I'm a 22 year old guy so statistically I think you'll find the last place you will find me is in Church.
As pointed out by a friend of mine; I hate people. And the church is a mass of people. So now I think I've got some idea about why it's pretty difficult for me.
-------------------- Colonisation complete.
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numonkei
Back! From thedigestive tractof dave theiguana!
Registered: 04/12/06
Posts: 2,500
Loc: A Tree
Last seen: 7 years, 15 days
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Quote:
Mr. Mushrooms said: I got that, adrug. But I am puzzled here for two reasons:
1) There seems to be a higher percentage of nutters and assholes within the Christian community.
2) These people, directed by their "Creator," are supposed to be ambassadors of Christ and emissaries of light and love.
I'm just going from personal experience but when a person goes out of their way to tell me they are a Christian when we meet and it has nothing to do with the context of our meeting, I know this person will screw me over one way or another if I let my guard down.
!) Familiar with law in the fundamental Islam communities still in existence?
2) Our politicians in the western world are also supposed to uphold the law and be our representatives as a peoples.
There is certainly merit to the fact that 'people are people', but some mental situations allow for more flexibility in justification for actions than others.
Basically, if the first American settlers were Jainist or Zen Bhuddists than it seems rather unlikely the Salem Witch trails would occur.
Whenever we know we are right we seem to justify the destruction of others much easier. Especially when we cannot be proven wrong; whether it be nationalism, religion, or ethnocentrism.
~Monk
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
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Hey...this country is represented by a majority of so-called Christians in hundreds of denominations, so obviously there is gonna be more Christian crazies per capita. Also understand (and I've brought this point up before) that it's estimated that, developmentally speaking, 50% of Americans have not attained Formal Operational Thinking. This is the fully adult level of cognition according to the astute observations of developmental psychologist Jean Piaget. Formal Operations is characterized by true logical thinking. The Sensorimotor Stage is entirely infantile, but look at the other three stages, and one can find multitudes of Americans who have grown older, but who have not grown up!:
Preoperational stage: from ages 2 to 7 (magical thinking predominates. Acquisition of motor skills). Egocentricism begins strongly and then weakens. Children cannot conserve or use logical thinking.
Concrete operational stage: from ages 7 to 12 (children begin to think logically but are very concrete in their thinking). Children can now conserve and think logically but only with practical aids. They are no longer egocentric.
Formal operational stage: from age 12 onwards (development of abstract reasoning). Children develop abstract thought and can easily conserve and think logically in their mind.
It's not about Christianity, it is about the puerile minds that cannot possible handle the implications of a religion which uses historical images and stories (midrash) to convey sublime spiritual verities. In addition to this, the discernment of literal, allegorical, metaphorical and mystical levels of religious writ escapes even the most seemingly sophisticated theologian. Theological ideas are idols which are mistakenly believed. The word honey, as Eckhart Tolle said, is not honey. Talking about honey is not tasting honey. In the words of C.G. Jung: "Religion is a defense against religious experience."
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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mycoprog
Modular Heretic
Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 797
Loc: N. America
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i have to agree, the more religious someone is, IME usually turns out to be a fucking tool. not that i haven't met some cool god fuckers, but i try to keep my distance from anyone who is a believer.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: Hey...this country is represented by a majority of so-called Christians in hundreds of denominations, so obviously there is gonna be more Christian crazies per capita. Also understand (and I've brought this point up before) that it's estimated that, developmentally speaking, 50% of Americans have not attained Formal Operational Thinking. This is the fully adult level of cognition according to the astute observations of developmental psychologist Jean Piaget. Formal Operations is characterized by true logical thinking. The Sensorimotor Stage is entirely infantile, but look at the other three stages, and one can find multitudes of Americans who have grown older, but who have not grown up!:
Preoperational stage: from ages 2 to 7 (magical thinking predominates. Acquisition of motor skills). Egocentricism begins strongly and then weakens. Children cannot conserve or use logical thinking.
Concrete operational stage: from ages 7 to 12 (children begin to think logically but are very concrete in their thinking). Children can now conserve and think logically but only with practical aids. They are no longer egocentric.
Formal operational stage: from age 12 onwards (development of abstract reasoning). Children develop abstract thought and can easily conserve and think logically in their mind.
It's not about Christianity, it is about the puerile minds that cannot possible handle the implications of a religion which uses historical images and stories (midrash) to convey sublime spiritual verities. In addition to this, the discernment of literal, allegorical, metaphorical and mystical levels of religious writ escapes even the most seemingly sophisticated theologian. Theological ideas are idols which are mistakenly believed. The word honey, as Eckhart Tolle said, is not honey. Talking about honey is not tasting honey. In the words of C.G. Jung: "Religion is a defense against religious experience."
Some pompous pretentious psychologist pulled various "stages" out of his rear end, so what. Does this make them true? It is true if they serve your purpose in a discussion I guess.
It is statistically proven that Gnostics are in the "denial of reality" stage of development, their puerile minds can not accept the the Bible is God's Word and Jesus actually physically existed.
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mycoprog
Modular Heretic
Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 797
Loc: N. America
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: fivepointer]
#10317589 - 05/10/09 03:33 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
It is statistically proven that Gnostics are in the "denial of reality" stage of development, their puerile minds can not accept the the Bible is God's Word and Jesus actually physically existed.
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200proofhonky
bluethumb
Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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aww, im a christian, not the best example of one and i dont got o church because i dont agree with established religion and i am not a "nutter" (what the hell is a nutter? hehe) or an asshole!
You will never hear me preach, ever...
If the subject arises i will express my views with confidence but i will not condemn you for disagreeing unless you are disrespectful, then i just get plain pissed off, not because you dont like my religion but because i cant stand to be disrespected
BTW, how ya been senor?:)
i edited this because i said condone when i meant condemn...huh,weird.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ They try to take away everything God gave us,yet... our money still says "In God We Trust". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You take a mortal man and put him in control, Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
Edited by 200proofhonky (05/10/09 07:55 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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What's wrong with Christians
Well for one thing they believe in a God without any real convincing evidence. This makes them irrational, so what do you expect?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Well said Markos!
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Deekay
Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 3,220
Loc:
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#10318081 - 05/10/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
In the words of C.G. Jung: "Religion is a defense against religious experience."
beautiful good thing i don't need a religion to feel comfortable about my beliefs
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200proofhonky
bluethumb
Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: Deekay]
#10318827 - 05/10/09 07:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deekay said:
Quote:
In the words of C.G. Jung: "Religion is a defense against religious experience."
beautiful good thing i don't need a religion to feel comfortable about my beliefs
i dont need it either, and im still a christian, so whats your point?
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ They try to take away everything God gave us,yet... our money still says "In God We Trust". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ You take a mortal man and put him in control, Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Most Christians I've met were pretty decent people. But then, I guess I'm a glass half-full kind of guy.
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NastyDHL
Registered: 04/04/08
Posts: 3,586
Loc: New England
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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I am very good friends with a very religious Lutheran. He is easy to get along with because he is very genuinely innocent, and has great intentions. However, I think the main reason why he is cooler than most Christians is because he dislikes how the church is content with not finding/proving the truth.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: What's wrong with Christians? [Re: NastyDHL]
#10320768 - 05/11/09 03:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've met completely hypocritical Christians. I've also met Christians who are normal people; sinning occasionally but with the best of intentions. Then I've encountered Christians who led actual, Christian lives (to the best of my knowledge).
Most I think fall into the middle category.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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