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Offlinekadakuda
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What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id?
    #10247866 - 04/28/09 06:49 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

lets assume people have access to a regular microscope and a camera.  What are the most important things to ensure a positive/accurate ID down to the species level?

i know the describing the gills/cap/stem morphology are important.  texture, what the mushrooms are feeding from, location, weather/climate, spore prints (colour/size).

what are some others.

All you mushroom experts, if you were able to get any information, other than an id lol, from someone in order to ID them....what would it be?

ps i read the noob sticky, but i think there is more needed than just that.


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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: kadakuda]
    #10247880 - 04/28/09 06:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Specific odor and taste can be quite important as well.


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"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Invisibleweiliiiiiii
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: German Kahuna]
    #10247904 - 04/28/09 07:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

yeah im a known gym nibbler.

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Offlinekoopa
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: weiliiiiiii]
    #10247909 - 04/28/09 07:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Wouldn't the microscopic view of the spores be a guarantor to a positive identification?

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Offlinetherealziz
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: koopa]
    #10248119 - 04/28/09 08:27 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

only a couple people here actually have microscopes. alan rockefeller is one of them i believe. im not sure exactly what they look for under the scope. it probably has something to do with the color and spacing of spores. im sure there are other signs, but im just a hunter not a mycologist.


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: therealziz]
    #10248333 - 04/28/09 09:37 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm looking through a microscope from May through October, by late autumn my right eye is effected by an acute astigmatism... but yeah, microscopes are a vital tool for identification. With that said, it's not like there are little labels printed on the spores unfortunately. Once you observe the microscopic material then you have to pour through photo copies of obscure literature and cumbersome keys for hours one end -- sometimes you are lucky and randomly open the book to the correct page on the first try.

I'm almost never completely satisfied with an ID even when everything seems to match as there will invariably be a muddling caveat or two.

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: georgeM]
    #10249741 - 04/28/09 02:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

georgeM said:
I'm almost never completely satisfied with an ID even when everything seems to match as there will invariably be a muddling caveat or two.



That's the damned truth, unfortunately.  It's rarely cut and dry.  More often than not, microscopy makes the task of narrowing something down to species that much more vexing and complex.

There are so few described species.



That said, Macroscopic features that help with identification are:

PHOTOS:
-be sure to collect the mushroom carefully, and photograph it as intact as possible.  Get the stem base!
-photos in day light.  artificial light fucks with the colour of the mushroom. 
-photograph all parts of the mushroom- not just the cap!

habitat:
-geographic location, what country and state or province, etc.
-what it was growing around, especially types of trees.
-what it was growing from.

Spore print colour:
-spores are often differently coloured when viewed with the naked eye, vs. a microscope, so get a spore print, and preferably post a photo of the print.  Again, day light is best for photos.

Scent:
-get a few people to smell it.  Not everyone perceives scents the same, and some peoples sense of smell is down right sucky.  So get multiple nose's opinion...

Taste:
-REMEMBER TO SPIT IT OUT.

Bruising/staining:
-Does the flesh of any part of the mushroom change colour when you crush or scrape it?


Microscopic features that help with identification are:

Colour, shape, size dimensions, and overall appearance of the spores, such as:
-hilar appendage
-ornamentation of the exterior of the spore
-any "nucleus" or "oil droplets"
-germ pore

Basidia:
-shape and size
-number of sterigma

Presence or absense of different Cystidia, and their shape and size.  Most common/important are:
-Cheilocystidia
-Pleurocystidia
-Pileocystidia
-Caulocystidia

Arrangement and shape of the Hyphae:
-especially of the pileipellis
-clamp connections


Chemical reactions:

-KOH (Potassium Hydroxide), used for macroscopic colour changes
-Melzer's Reagent, used for microscopic spore colour changes (dextrinoid, amyloid, inamyloid)

That's all I can think of at the moment...


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InvisibleDannyGlick

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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: CureCat]
    #10249759 - 04/28/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Sometimes smoke pours out your ears I'll bet.:smirk:

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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: DannyGlick]
    #10249785 - 04/28/09 02:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Steam, not smoke.
:finger:


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OfflineWorkmanV
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: kadakuda]
    #10249885 - 04/28/09 02:45 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I've been slowly compiling the descriptions for all known active Psilocybes by section in my Shroomery Journal. It was just too troublesome to thumb through piles of journals to pin down a species.  I periodically update them with my own observations as well. Worth a look.


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InvisibleCureCat
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: Workman]
    #10249900 - 04/28/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

That's great, Workman!


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: What is the absolute best way to get a SURE id? [Re: CureCat]
    #10252081 - 04/28/09 08:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

send it to an expert , a good micologist dependind on the genus, could id it or maybe narrow to genus and maybe  species , as all said sometimes is not easy but why dont you put a picture and a description and hell we will give a try ...:sunny:


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo

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