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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays
    #10186033 - 04/17/09 05:08 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Nice to see a prominent Republican taking this stance.  I've said it numerous times, if the Republican party would drop their bigoted stance on gays and stop pandering to the Christian Right with their abortion and evolution propaganda, they would be just as likely to get my vote as a Democratic candidate.

This is a no-brainer for the Republican party.  The younger generation, my generation, is not virulently anti-gay as so many older folks are.  If the party wants to remain relevant, they're going to have to adapt.

I am willing to bet this guy is ostracized by his peers in the party for saying this, however. The Jesus-Freak Wing of the Republican Party is viciously militant and ever vigilant at anybody who is soft on fags.

Quote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/17/schmidt.log.cabin/

McCain campaign manager: GOP should back same-sex marriage

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A key architect of Republican Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign has urged conservatives to drop their opposition to same-sex marriage.
Steve Schmidt served as Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign manager in 2008.

Steve Schmidt served as Sen. John McCain's presidential campaign manager in 2008.

In a speech Friday to Log Cabin Republicans, a conservative gay rights group, Steve Schmidt said allowing same-sex marriage is in line with the conservative credo of keeping government out of people's private lives.

"There is a sound conservative argument to be made for same-sex marriage," Schmidt, who was McCain's campaign manager, told the group. "I believe conservatives, more than liberals, insist that rights come with responsibilities. No other exercise of one's liberty comes with greater responsibilities than marriage. In a marriage, two people are completely responsible to and for each other."

He added: "If you are not willing to accept and faithfully discharge those responsibilities, you shouldn't enter the state of matrimony, and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference if you're straight or gay. It is a responsibility like no other, which can and should make marriage an association between two human beings more fulfilling than any other."

Schmidt told CNN that the GOP must become more open if it wants to reverse a shrinking coalition, especially among younger, more accepting voters.

"People are turned off in large measure by what they see as intolerance coming out of the party," he said.

Schmidt says he knows his is a minority view. In the presidential campaign, McCain ran against same-sex marriage.

"I don't honestly expect our party will reverse in the very near term its opposition to same sex marriage. Nor do I yet see support for it from a strong majority of the general public," Schmidt told the Log Cabin Republicans. "And, I do believe that such a highly charged political question such as this should be settled by the freely expressed will of the people, and not by the courts."

So what will change Republicans' mindset?

"One of the things that has definitely impacted my views on these issues and an evolution of thought over time is having a gay sibling," Schmidt told CNN. "As Americans get to know gay couples and or have gay family members, or work associates ... they come to understand that these relationships are deep and worth being respect and being protected."

Log Cabin Republicans say they hope other party leaders now realize that election losses prove the GOP catered too much to social conservatives.

"It's great that the Republican Party is going through this soul-searching at this moment right now," said Charles Moran, president of the Los Angeles chapter of the Log Cabin Republicans. "Republicans are thinking outside the box."

These days, their grassroots organization is reaching out to sympathetic Republicans in states debating same-sex marriage initiatives, such as New Hampshire.

Recently, Iowa and Vermont approved same-sex marriages. In April, the District of Columbia Council voted to allow same-sex marriages from around the country to be recognized there, though the measure still needs to be debated in Congress. All legislation in the district must pass congressional muster.

And just Thursday, New York Gov. David Paterson, a Democrat, said he plans to introduce a bill in the state Assembly to legalize same-sex marriage.

And this week, another Republican group -- GOProud -- formed to push a broader agenda, advocating traditional conservative issues such as low taxes and smaller government.

"There's this misconception that if you're gay, you're liberal ... just like there's a misconception that if you're conservative, you're a bigot,(Misconception?)" said Jimmy LaSalvia of GOProud.

Gay Republicans say they often get asked a basic question: Why are you Republican? Most argue that they believe in the principle of limited government.

In fact, nearly 3 in 10 self-identified gays and lesbians voted Republican in the last presidential election, according to exit polling.

But while Schmidt admitted that it will be a tough challenge for the party to accept same-sex marriage, there could be hope down the road.

"I'm confident American public opinion will continue to move on the question toward majority support, and sooner or later the Republican Party will catch up to it," he told the gathering. "And I believe the nation's acceptance of same sex unions as lawful marriage would provide a far more secure guarantee that the change made to this profoundly important social institution will be permanent than would judicial fiat."




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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10186534 - 04/17/09 07:06 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Dick Cheney was the first national candidate of either of the major political parties to endorse gay marriage.

It is not like Obama or John Kerry was for gay marriage.  Republicans always get the bad rap and the wrath of khan for being bigots.  You have a Democratic administration and a fully Democratic Congress and I don't see any gay marriage.  Why don't people call the Democrats bigots?

Republicans are racist bigots.  I have heard that time and time again.  It gets repeated ad naseum.  What accounts for the Democratic stance?  Why do they get a pass?


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Tastes just like chicken

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: JesusChrist]
    #10186553 - 04/17/09 07:10 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Which party is it that supports, and eagerly promotes, a Constitutional Amendment to ban gay marriage?

There is a big difference between not introducing legislation promoting something and making one of your key campaign points the outright banning of that same thing.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10188512 - 04/18/09 07:24 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

> I've said it numerous times, if the Republican party would drop their bigoted stance on gays and stop pandering to the Christian Right

Along with a return to the philosophy of small government and personal responsibility.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: JesusChrist]
    #10188917 - 04/18/09 10:01 AM (15 years, 1 day ago)

While it is true that the federal dems don't usually push for a lift on gay marriage bans, when this fight goes to the state level (which it usually does) it has typically been a republican politician heading up the anti-gay rallies spewing all the bullshit about marriage being between a man and a woman.


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:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: JesusChrist]
    #10189969 - 04/18/09 01:12 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

JesusChrist said:
Republicans always get the bad rap and the wrath of khan for being bigots.  You have a Democratic administration and a fully Democratic Congress and I don't see any gay marriage.  Why don't people call the Democrats bigots?



Let's see, states with same sex marriage:

Vermont
Massachusetts
Connecticut
Iowa

States proposing same sex marriage:

New York
Maine
New Hampshire
Illinois
Minnesota

All of the above states are solid blue (except Iowa which is light blue):



I wonder how long until a red state allows gay marriage???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #10190414 - 04/18/09 02:32 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

> I wonder how long until a red state allows gay marriage???

Which does nothing to answer the question asked.  Typical political spin.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Seuss]
    #10190593 - 04/18/09 03:05 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

It's not a legitimate question?

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10190695 - 04/18/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/17/schmidt.log.cabin/
Steve Schmidt said allowing same-sex marriage is in line with the conservative credo of keeping government out of people's private lives.




BINGO

I really wish people would start voting based on principle rather than trying to pander to interest groups.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Redstorm]
    #10191260 - 04/18/09 05:11 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

> It's not a legitimate question?

Sure it is legitimate, but I was griping about the answering a question with a question...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Seuss]
    #10191735 - 04/18/09 06:55 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I think his answer was that exclusively dem states have same sex marriage legislation in effect and in consideration. Marriage is not legislated federally as in Canada. Obama can't just magically make gay marriage legal, it has to happen on a state by state basis.

In case there was any confusion, but I don't understand why this confused you I'm Canadian and I know that.


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"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10191809 - 04/18/09 07:11 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

> Obama can't just magically make gay marriage legal

Then he shouldn't have promised to repeal the DOMA... even if he fails, he should at least try.

I'm not arguing anything about what states do... that is their business.  I care about the federal level definition of marriage (and the discrimination it allows) as defined by the DOMA.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineScavengerType
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Seuss]
    #10192218 - 04/18/09 08:56 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

I was looking up his "promise to repeal DOMA" and I couldn't find any actual quotes or dates for him saying he would repeal DOMA. The only speech I saw of his was saying that he supported the repeal of DOMA, in other words he is saying he won't veto any bills that repeal DOMA.

A lot of the DOMA related links I found (without quotes) when searching were religious or conservative in nature. One of them lead to a facebook group called "Obama wants to repeal DOMA bring on Armageddon and rape your puppies" and this group claimed some anti-DOMA legislation would be on the table in late 2009.

Quote:

The Defense of Marriage Act, or DOMA, is the short title of a federal law of the United States passed on September 21, 1996 as Public Law No. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419. Its provisions are codified at 1 U.S.C. § 7 and 28 U.S.C. § 1738C. The law has two effects:

  1. No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) needs to treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state.
  2. The federal government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

It is true that democrats were major proponents of DOMA and I doubt enough of them want to see it repealed.

From the sounds of the language of the media there is a possibility of more support for a de-balling of DOMA by eliminating the second effect practically so that all state recognized marriages are recognized by the federal government. Eliminating effect 2.

However, striking the practical effect of the first would lead to a costly legal problems. The states having to fight for their right to define marriage and gays sewing the state for discrimination. So seeing this I doubt many dems are going to back a full repeal of DOMA.

It is true though that regardless of many republicans opinions of gay marriage their constituents (more than dems but not exclusively) may be forcing their policy on the matter.


--------------------
"Have you ever seen what happens when a grenade goes off in a school? Do you really know what you’re doing when you order shock and awe? Are you prepared to kneel beside a dying soldier and tell him why he went to Iraq, or why he went to any war?"
"The things that are done in the name of the shareholder are, to me, as terrifying as the things that are done—dare I say it—in the name of God. Montesquieu said, "There have never been so many civil wars as in the Kingdom of God." And I begin to feel that’s true. The shareholder is the excuse for everything."
- Author and former M6/M5 agent John le Carré on Democracy Now.
Conquer's Club

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: ScavengerType]
    #10192250 - 04/18/09 09:04 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

How is that going to be costly to fight?


Its not like there's many institutions with more lawyers on staff then a state.  They've got whole departments just handling issues of this nature.

I really don't care about that stuff.  They've got the staff and they should bare the burdon of defending their own laws.  Maybe if they recompensated folks that were prosecuted illegally for their costs, but seeing as how that doesn't happen, they can screw right on off.


1.'s the only one vaguely legal, though.  They should simply have stated no state need recognize another's marriage.  Adding in the provision saying they need not recognize only same sex marriage puts it into blatantly illegal territory.  Prima facia sex discrimination that can be justified by nothing other than an impotent appeal to the full faith and credit regulatory provisions that would seem usurped by the much more specific and clear equal protection clause.


2. is unquestionably illegal.

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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: johnm214]
    #10193315 - 04/19/09 01:20 AM (15 years, 20 hours ago)

The GOP can't give up the hate.

It's all they have, anymore.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineLancaster
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: TGRR]
    #10193407 - 04/19/09 01:53 AM (15 years, 19 hours ago)

The only thing conservatism ever had going for it was the support of civil liberty. We all know that fascism is at the far end of the right winged spectrum, and as conservatives slowly phase out libertarianism from their agenda, they move even further to the right.

Instead of "keep government out of people's buisiness," it is now "make sure that people aren't allowed to do what I consider wrong, even though it doesn't effect me in any way." It's complete bullshit, especially when you look at their defense of anti-gay marriage legislation.

Quote:

Gays and Lesbians have a right to live as they choose,
they don’t have the right to redefine marriage for all of us.




When you manage to wade through the spin in that statement, you realize that they are saying it is wrong to take away their right to restrict gay's rights. It blows my mind that such backwards doublespeak is espoused by thinking human beings.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Seuss]
    #10193473 - 04/19/09 02:15 AM (15 years, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Obama can't just magically make gay marriage legal

Then he shouldn't have promised to repeal the DOMA... even if he fails, he should at least try.

I'm not arguing anything about what states do... that is their business.  I care about the federal level definition of marriage (and the discrimination it allows) as defined by the DOMA.




Oddly enough, that changed only 40 years ago.

No reason it shouldn't change now.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: Lancaster]
    #10193525 - 04/19/09 02:33 AM (15 years, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Lancaster said:
The only thing conservatism ever had going for it was the support of civil liberty. We all know that fascism is at the far end of the right winged spectrum, and as conservatives slowly phase out libertarianism from their agenda, they move even further to the right.





No we all don't know that.

Why would National Socialism or Fascism be at the far end of the right winged spectrum?  Any good reason?

I think that libertarians are at the far end of the spectrum on the right.  Many people view libertarians as moderates because we are down with liberals on many social issues.  One economic issues like Big Government vs. Small Government the gulf couldn't be wider.

If the Conservative party is supposed to be for limited government and individual freedom, why would the extreme right wing be fascism, with totalitarian government and no freedom?  They called it National SOCIALISM for a reason.  If either party is closer to fascism, I would suggest to you it is the people on the left.


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Tastes just like chicken

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: JesusChrist]
    #10193547 - 04/19/09 02:38 AM (15 years, 18 hours ago)

Yeah, I didn't understand that either.

If the right is about limited government and the left for more government and economic programs, then the facist regimes are far left.



People may wish to cherry pick definitions of "right" or "left" or whatever to argue this, but it seems fitting to me.  If anything, far right is anarchy.


Only if you include people like the "religious right" in "right" can you start getting things confusing, but I never got how these people got bunched up as "righters" anyways.  They're just a bunch of leftists who want to control different aspects of people's personal life than the liberals- though they seem to agree with the liberals on the whole victimless crime prosecutions thing.

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OfflineYrat
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Re: Mccain Campaign Manager : GOP Should Stop Hating Gays [Re: johnm214]
    #10193831 - 04/19/09 06:31 AM (15 years, 14 hours ago)



--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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