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Offlinesoulrock
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PF Tek- First Grow + Questions
    #10105894 - 04/04/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Okay so these are my pf tek jars. As far as I could tell back when these cakes were freshly sterilized and inoculated they were a little bit too wet and therefore took on a pasty-ish texture, at least by sight. I think the parts that were too wet ended up drying too dense to be colonized by the mycelium and so my cakes look a little spotty, but I think they're done by now. They've been incubating for about 4.5 weeks (??). About a week and a half in I thought they were not going to work as they were too wet and so i did a whole separate batch, this time I mixed the substrate (roommate did it last time). The result looked perfect, as far as i could surmise from guides and pictures i've seen, but right after they were inoculated I went on a week and a half vacation and turned on some heat in my incubator for while i'd be gone (hindsight this was stupid and unnecessary- I live in southern california) , thinking the temp would hover around 80. It turned out, once i got back, that the original jars (pictured above) were making progress, though not as much as i had hoped and the second batch was and is still completely void of any signs of growth. Was the temperature too hot? I heard it takes over 100 degrees to kill mycelium and I doubt my incubator ever got that high, but it was certainly too high to be colonizing. What is the best thing to do with these jars now? They appear to still be sterile, although i'd imagine they could use some more water now. Inoculate again? Dump and restart?

Fruiting Chamber questions. Fresh air exchange? How much air are we talking about here. i have a glass fish tank with a plastic top I can poke holes in, is this enough? Or should I be fanning it out once/a couple times a day as well? Thanks for all your help!

Edit: Updates are in post below.

Edited by soulrock (04/12/09 08:00 PM)

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Offlinesoulrock
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Updates [Re: soulrock]
    #10106034 - 04/04/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Update #1: 1st and 2nd are from first batch. 3rd is from second batch.

Update #2: 4th picture is of the most active part of my cakes. I just started seeing the first signs of pins two days ago. Any thing worth seeing here? What are the tell-tale signs of not enough humidity? I ask because I think my hygrometer is broken. It's brand new but only cost 5 dollars and is plastic, cannot be adjusted. It never goes above 70% while in the tank, or wrapped in a soaking wet cloth over night. It seems to adjust much more accurately at lower humidities (places like my room, bathroom after a shower, etc). Finally, does anyone have a link to a good fruiting/picking guide? Thanks!

Notes: I've been fanning 2-3 times a day and misting 1-2. I may not need to be misting, it's just hard to tell if my humidity is up high enough, there is a lot of condensation on the sides of the glass, something i've heard to mean humidity is probably high enough.

Update #3: The mushrooms seem to be growing a little droopy. It's sort of difficult to tell from the pictures, but they just don't seem to be growing too rigidly. Also, my main question was about the one in the middle. It kind of split open and as you can hopefully see the cap turned up a little and some gills are exposed, although i'd assume it's no where near time to be sporulating, any thoughts? I was thinking about making just picking that one to give the others a better chance.

Note: Image 4 and 5 are of same cake.

Pictures

  • 1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

Edited by soulrock (04/13/09 09:02 PM)

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Offlineinit
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10106052 - 04/04/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Edit: I see the giant pics now! lol

My multispore PF grow has been colonizing for about 4.5 weeks as well, so that's not completely unheard of. It does look a bit wet in those jars, but the mycelium seems to be colonizing it pretty well. Have they reached 100% yet? As long as there are no contams, and they look pretty good to me (but I am a newb), they should be fine. Better see what other people have to say though.

It's possible that the temperature was too high in your incubator, but all you can really do is wait and see what happens. I would just wait and see what the jars do. Reinoculating sounds risky and I wouldn't go that route, since it doesn't cost much to make a new batch, especially now that you have more experience! :smile: You could dump and restart, if you need the jars, but until you know the jars are done for good, you might as well wait it out (and buy new jars?).

As for FAE, I've read that "fresh air exchange" is defined as completely replacing the air inside the fruiting chamber once every hour. I'm not sure if your fish tank setup would provide enough air exchange to fruit mushrooms. Have you looked into the shotgun FC?

http://www.mushroomvideos.com/Terrarium-Tek

People swear by this design, and RogerRabbit won't steer you wrong :wink: I made one of these myself and can't wait to use it. I'd recommend this over your fish tank, unless you want to fiddle around with air pumps and humidifiers and stuff. Otherwise I think you'd need to fan that thing a LOT to get sufficient FAE, even if you drill a couple holes in the top.

How long has it been since you inoculated the second batch? None of them are showing growth? If there's nothing after 2-3 weeks, they're probably goners.

Hope that helps answer some of your questions. Good luck! :thumbup:

Edited by init (04/04/09 04:39 PM)

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OfflineArthurSalenez
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10106093 - 04/04/09 04:43 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

soulrock said:
Okay so these are my pf tek jars. As far as I could tell back when these cakes were freshly sterilized and inoculated they were a little bit too wet and therefore took on a pasty-ish texture, at least by sight. I think the parts that were too wet ended up drying too dense to be colonized by the mycelium and so my cakes look a little spotty, but I think they're done by now. They've been incubating for about 4.5 weeks (??). About a week and a half in I thought they were not going to work as they were too wet and so i did a whole separate batch, this time I mixed the substrate (roommate did it last time). The result looked perfect, as far as i could surmise from guides and pictures i've seen, but right after they were inoculated I went on a week and a half vacation and turned on some heat in my incubator for while i'd be gone (hindsight this was stupid and unnecessary- I live in southern california) , thinking the temp would hover around 80. It turned out, once i got back, that the original jars (pictured above) were making progress, though not as much as i had hoped and the second batch was and is still completely void of any signs of growth. Was the temperature too hot? I heard it takes over 100 degrees to kill mycelium and I doubt my incubator ever got that high, but it was certainly too high to be colonizing. What is the best thing to do with these jars now? They appear to still be sterile, although i'd imagine they could use some more water now. Inoculate again? Dump and restart?

Fruiting Chamber questions.
Fresh air exchange? How much air are we talking about here. i have a glass fish tank with a plastic top I can poke holes in, is this enough? Or should I be fanning it out once/a couple times a day as well? Thanks for all your help!

EDIT: Can't upload pictures. Any help on that as well!?





Hmm, your jars must have encouraged bacterial growth from the high temperature. Also, if the jars are too wet then it as well might take awhile to fully colonize. Keep them around and see what happens, my jars looked yellowish too from the metabolites. Took well over a month to colonize 100%. You can try using the search engine and find similar cases. As for the fruiting chamber, I suggest you get a tube from walmart and watch the RR videos on how to make a shotgun terrarium.

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Offlinesoulrock
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: ArthurSalenez]
    #10106153 - 04/04/09 04:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks for the suggestions and help. I have limited space to place a FC and so that was why I settled on the fish tank in the first place as supposed to doing a big shotgun tank. I'd like to go that route next time (I'll be moving around here and there over the summer so round two must wait till August). Now I must do what I can for FAE with what I have. I was originally going to place those air-stone like rods under the perlite in my FC but had a hard time finding them and now i'm low on cash.

So judging from the pictures I posted, looks like I should wait another couple of days? Two days ago I started adding some 12 on/12 off light action to the mix with the intention of stimulating pinning. Good idea? Maybe continue this for a few days, dunk roll, and fruit?

As far as my second batch goes, it looks like i'll have to just dump them out. I have no expectation of them growing anything at this point and I kind of just have them around because I thought maybe there was a good way to re-do them without starting over. Oh well.

Thanks again for all the help!

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Offlinejust me
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10106282 - 04/04/09 05:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

fruit the first batch if they all look like that


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--------------------------------------------------

-pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs-

"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: just me]
    #10106525 - 04/04/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Cool, I was hoping I'd hear someone with some experience (at least in terms of posts on this site! :cool: ) tell me that they are ready to go because I had a feeling they may be and I have a music festival to go to in three weeks so I have to get this process started.

My last remaining question is about FAE. Basically I'm working with a glass box with a plastic lid. I can have as many holes on top as needed and have an electric fan. I wonder if I can rig something up to direct air from the fan to the bottom of the tank (where all the CO2 sits). Has anyone done this with a rotary fan? I was thinking of building attaching a vent down the side of the container with plastic that would make a path from the fan to the bottom of the FC. If that makes sense... I'd buy some air-stones if I could find some cheap...

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Offlinejust me
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10106590 - 04/04/09 06:45 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

i sold my sould for 5000 of those post. theyre not really mine

with a solid FC your best bet will be to keep the whole thing solid and just FAN OFTEN

make sure you roll your cakes in dry verm, then mist a lot for the first day to hydrate the verm.

btw, post count dont mean shit other than i like to talk a lot


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--------------------------------------------------

-pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs-

"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Offlinejust me
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: just me]
    #10106600 - 04/04/09 06:47 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

hey soulrock.

do you know what a PmP is?

check em out

but really man, if you dont wanna throw down $10 to build a shotgun FC, then you might be very limited in this hobby


--------------------

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-pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs-

"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: just me]
    #10107201 - 04/04/09 08:36 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, the cakes are in the fridge. Everything looked fine while birthing them, no visible contaminants, etc. I've looked into the poor man's pod (PmP) before but like I said, I had a hard time finding the air stones.

How does the PmP compare with the shotgun method? Seems like the PmP would be much better and that the shotgun method is more of a poor man's FC than the PmP is itself.

And by fanning often, I've read a lot of different things. Like 3-5 times a day?

Finally, where can I find the one who purchases souls for 5,000 posts. Thanks.

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Offlinejust me
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10107282 - 04/04/09 08:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

the soul purchaser is around.

itll find you, dont worry. :lol:

i feel the shotgun is far superior to the PmP (i say this as i sit right next to two PmP's humming away as i type) for several reasons.

And yeah 3-5 times a day is a good amount to fan.

Youll have it dialed in b4 you know it.

Btw, i hope by "cakes in the fridge" you mean youre dunking them and you stuck whatever theyre in, into the fridge.

honestly, you dont need to put them into the fridge. dunking in room temperature works. some say better


--------------------

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-pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs-

"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: just me]
    #10107417 - 04/04/09 09:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Ya they are in water, fully submerged. Room temperature here is almost twice the temp of 40 degrees so I'll leave them in there at least this time around. Thanks for the help though, I'll be sure to post some results!

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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10107434 - 04/04/09 09:27 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

ok. suit yourself, but a "cold shock" is unnecissary for cubensis species

it might actually be a bit counterproductive. the cold sloooooows down the mycelium


--------------------

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-pEaCeLoVeGoDbLeSs-

"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."

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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: just me]
    #10153880 - 04/12/09 07:02 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Updated my 2nd OP with an Update #2. The title doesn't quite correspond anymore, but I thought I'd keep the original thread. Just a little pin porn for you guys. Now i know why everyone gets all worked up over pins- they grow up so fast! It's exciting to check on them every 6 hours or so and see the growth.

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: soulrock]
    #10154360 - 04/12/09 08:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

take yoru dunking cakes out of the fridge. Cold shcoking has no benifit to cubensis and will just slow things down.

ditch the incubator, room temp is fine.


if you just have a tub without any means of air exchange, you will have to fan out every hour.

Fresh air exchange is a very important pinning trigger, you will also experience a much higher contamination rates with poor FAE.

Shotgun fruiting chamber is the easiest and cheapest method of fruiting a batch of cakes. just mist then fan 4-5 times daily.

PMP works ok too, but that requires buying an air pump and airstone. Not really my defination of a poormans pod. soda bottles sound more like a poor mans pod to me.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Offlinesoulrock
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Re: Time to Birth, etc. [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10154574 - 04/12/09 09:11 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Veda_Sticks, I think you are a little confused about where I am in this grow. If you take a look at the pictures posted in the 2nd post, you will see that I am already well into the fruiting stages and so information regarding previous steps is mostly irrelevant and useless for me. I'd suppose that the information could be useful for others, but frankly, the information in question is available everywhere and I was more curious about specifics within the constraints that I am currently working under. I certainly appreciate the help though.

Anyway, what is pertinent is information you mentioned about FAE and fanning. As I have mentioned I do not seem to have a properly working hygrometer and so I am concerned about my RH% getting too low from too much ventilation. My tub is closed with no holes (not airtight by any means) and so I have been fanning about 2-3 times a day, but would you say more is necessary? I remember reading something RR wrote about B+'s not needing as much FAE as other species due to their relatively high tolerance of CO2

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Offlinesoulrock
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Prematurely pick deformed mushroom? [Re: soulrock]
    #10160915 - 04/13/09 09:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Updated 2nd OP again, but here's a higher resolution picture so you get an idea for what I mean. Any suggestions? Thanks!


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