|
 Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
 virus1824
Mr Mushroom
 
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
|
 incubation myths facts and nonsense? 
#10092172 - 04/02/09 03:20 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Hi everyone,
Since 05 I've been producing mushrooms on and off.
Did alot of reading through the forums back to 2002.
I read up and since the last 2 years the consensus has been to incubate your jars at a lower temperature to keep contams down.
There's alot of factors that contribute to a good grow, unfortunately there are also conflicting things. so i would like to ask some questions.
I always had huge problems with incubations. although i have almost no contaminations whatsoever, the jars take eons to get through. some say they thrive on high co2 others say they stall at high co2, put youre jars upside down, unscrew the lid and whatnot.
i know high co2 is required for incubation, i have read the mushroom cultivator like 6 times over. though i also read that high co2 stalls growth. quite confusing
my last jars took 2 months to fully colonize (small bottles, they are now in the fruiting chamber) no contaminations whatsoever. Though i did not apply protective layer only some tin foil. Incubated them in 24C. After putting them in the FC and put casing on it the mycelium grew like hell.
so my questions are.
for rye:
How wet has the rye have to be. how can i tell? i put them in big jars for 16 hours, drain them add em to a pot. And PC em (with only tin foil on the tops) And how does this affect incubation.
When a jar stalls, or appears to be stalling, what are the biggest factors[for rye] ?
If a jar stalls, what are the best methods for countering and assessing the cause.
How full does a jar have to be, what produces the best results?
I see people putting them full to the top, others only half full.
Myself i put them 2/3 full to allow them to consume oxygen.
Right now i am waiting to get some prints of my grow make an LC and just squirt 10cc in small jars so they actually grow full between 8 days, and not 3,4 weeks. But if the problem is more fundamental this will have little to no effect.
And yes this has been discussed alot, i have read alot. and i have tried alot. even unscrew the lids.. forgive me! It's just a little confusing. and i would really like to achieve a fully colonized jar in less than 2 weeks. Please help me!
--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
Edited by virus1824 (04/02/09 03:54 AM)
|
German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: virus1824]
#10092232 - 04/02/09 03:59 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
i put them in big jars for 16 hours, drain them add em to a pot. And PC em
You need to simmer the rye. This will load it with moisture to field capacity and heat it up, so the surplus water can evaporate from the outside of the grains better.
You'll get the best results if the inside is at 100% field capacity while the outside is dry.
You can tell that you have reached 100% saturation when the first kernels start to pop open. Take them off the heat and drain. I even use a hair dryer on the grains sometimes if I want to get them to dry quicker.
If you print your shrooms, the prints will not be sterile. If you throw the spores into an LC directly, you won't be able to tell if you aren't cultivating contams along with your mycelium. Spores from homemade prints should always be grown out on agar first.
Thinking that using 10cc instead of 1cc or 2cc is going to improve things is wrong. Especially if you are using small jars. All that'll happen is that you'll get the inside friggin wet. This is counterproductive (do you have any idea how many spores fit into 1cc of spore solution?). If you are using an LC, just use 1cc to 2cc max, but shake up the jar vigorously after inoculation to distribute the mycelium throughout the jar.
--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
|
virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: German Kahuna]
#10092240 - 04/02/09 04:06 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
You need to simmer the rye. This will load it with moisture to field capacity and heat it up, so the surplus water can evaporate from the outside of the grains better.
You'll get the best results if the inside is at 100% field capacity while the outside is dry."
Will that not happen anyway when i pc the rye?
edit: on re-reading the guide 'from syringe to print using rye'
It indeed says to simmer it first. cant believe i read over that small part. So without simmering it first the rye is to dry after pc'ing?
And good tip on the lc! I think the best for me is to grow on agar first then on grain and use agar's grain lc tek after.
--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
Edited by virus1824 (04/02/09 04:12 AM)
|
German Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: virus1824]
#10092277 - 04/02/09 04:24 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
virus1824 said:
Will that not happen anyway when i pc the rye?
edit: on re-reading the guide 'from syringe to print using rye'
It indeed says to simmer it first. cant believe i read over that small part. So without simmering it first the rye is to dry after pc'ing?
Exactly. The PCing doesn't add any moisture to the grains. Plus, like I said, boiling the rye heats the kernels up and helps to evaporate the water on the outside. It is possible that in the past the moisture inside the kernels was too low while at the same time there was too much moisture in the actual jars. Both factors will cause slower growth.
The grains should actually be dry on the outside (they should not leave wet spots on a paper towel or newspaper). The only real moisture you want is inside the grains.
--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".
|
 veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK 
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: German Kahuna]
#10092308 - 04/02/09 04:44 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
I think he is refering to an older method of doing jars which involved loading the jars with grain and water. Moisture content is critical in substrates. Get it too wet and that will certainly cause slow colinisation and can lead to bacterial growth. General rule is if your grains are wet on the outside, its no good. You want to outside dry. Not only will it colinise faster, your grains wont stick together and will be easily to break apart.
Also when your simmering your grain, you dont want too many burst kernels, if you get alot of burst kernels, it will release starch and that will just act like glue making it impossibnle to break apart your grains after 30% colinisation.
Fill your jars 2/3 full, you need to leave space to shake your jars, and if your doing grain to grain you may need to leave a little more space as you will be adding some more grain.
Improper gas exchange will slow down and stall colinisation. The inoculation holes will provide gas exchange, but remember you will need a filter to stop contamination getting in your jars. Tyvek/filter discs/ polfyill are all comon methods. Just having holes in your lids with foil covering them isnt so good.
You have been here along time so there is alot of informatin that has been found to be wrong or outdated.
with incubation temperatures, a core temp above 83F will slow mycelial growth while benifiting thermophilic moulds and bacteria. Since colinising mycelium will produce heat as it metobolises a substrate you will want to incubate lower than 83F. 1/2 pf jars will produce a few degrees of heat so 80F is about the upper limit. With larger grain jars and bulk substrates heat production can be much higher so lower temps are better, 75-78F.
10CC is alot of liquid to add to a substrate, which will through of the moisture content. If your substrate is made up correctly, from LC it should colinise in arund a week from 2 CC of liquid culture.
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
|
veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: veda_sticks]
#10092309 - 04/02/09 04:44 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Look up RR's rye grain tek. He gets perfect moisture content everytime, and even takes a few seconds to laugh at everyone in his DVD :-)
--------------------
PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
|
virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: veda_sticks]
#10092377 - 04/02/09 05:11 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
i thank you very much for your comments so far. Good information which i think will speed up colonization alot in future grows 
If anyone has more tips feel free!
--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
|
galadar
Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 981
Loc: in a monotub!
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: virus1824]
#10092405 - 04/02/09 05:21 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Use the old rye method. it works great. no need to soak or simmer. just make sure you shake after the PC.
and for lids use 1/4 hole filled with polyfil, somewhat tight so that it doesnt fall out.
and another hole with Silicon dabbed on both sides. it makes a great self healing lid. very very simple method.
wipe silicon with alcohol, flame needle and inject while red. inject with 2-3cc of Lc at one side against the glass. let colonize till 20-25% then shake and break up all the fungus. in the next few days itll be 100%
i still wish i could find rye for dirt dirt dirt cheap..
till then im sticking to wbs.
Edited by galadar (04/02/09 05:36 AM)
|
virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: galadar]
#10092430 - 04/02/09 05:31 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
i still wish i could find rye for dirt dirt dirt cheap..
till then im sticking to wbs.
I get my rye for 90 cents a kilo, from a windmill. i dont know where you come from. but i suppose everywhere there are stores that sell ingredients for baking bread.
--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
|
galadar
Registered: 05/09/07
Posts: 981
Loc: in a monotub!
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: virus1824]
#10092440 - 04/02/09 05:35 AM (15 years, 18 days ago) |
|
|
i live in a very very HUGE city in the northeast.
everything is expensive..
i get 40lbs of wbs for $10 tho. so yea
|
sublimehypocrisy
The Astronomer
Registered: 04/13/09
Posts: 84
Loc: Arizona the desert
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
|
Re: incubation myths facts and nonsense? [Re: galadar]
#10178601 - 04/16/09 03:24 PM (15 years, 3 days ago) |
|
|
I wanna know about the co2 also! Is more co2 better? should I melt some dry ice next to my jars? =P
--------------------
Now, please excuse me while I smoke this hash.
|
virus1824
Mr Mushroom
Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Europe
|
|
well as far as i have learned you need high co2 for incubation but you need to allow for some gas exchange because the mycelium needs oxygen to keep growing. to high co2 stalls colonization.
Also to big a hole will allow to let the top of the substrate dry out so it wont colonize so dont make the hole to big
--------------------
A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend
|
ABC
Stranger
Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1,439
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
|
|
I like to think of colonizing myc as a limbless infant that you bury 3 inches underground. It needs oxygen to survive, but not that much.
Too much CO2 is bad because it will stop growth. This can be avoided by leaving your jars where they have access to open air.
Too much (it'll take a lot) O2 is bad because it can cause early pinning. This can be avoided by keeping the lid on.
Myc doesn't need to think or move around much, like humans do, so they don't need that much oxygen to colonize.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
PJDIDDLE
Fd3000
1 2 3 4 all )
f8L
MAIA
Pavement
Abudiwa
Demiurge