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Offlineshroomathan
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Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber * 4
    #10059925 - 03/28/09 12:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

...


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

Edited by shroomathan (05/23/09 07:54 PM)

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Offlinebrndnrchrdsn
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Registered: 03/17/09
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Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10062704 - 03/28/09 09:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Ok, I basicly did the same thing, but with 2 rubbermaid containers of the same size, and a fish tank heater.  I used 4 veggie cans to create the space between the tubs, and tied the top one down.  I then put a blanket over the top, and set the 1/2 pint jars of rye on top of an upside down tin baking pan (to keep them from getting too hot on the bottom).  I got the inside of the tub to a consistant 86 f (30c).  I was feeling very proud of myself!

Then I read on this forum that its better to just keep the jars at room temp. (70 - 75 f).  I was like :confused:  so I unplugged the fish tank heater...

  About an hour later I read this....  why is there so much conflicting information out there?  What is the best tech for growing bulk?  Is there a place where I can just sit down and watch a video and learn all I need to know?

P.S. I did a lot of research before I even ordered the spores.  I watched this 1hr 40mn  video like 6 times over to make sure I had all the supplies I needed.  I spent like $200 on supplies (including a PC)  I traveled 20 miles to get some actual "rye seed" from this farm supply store. (this was after driving all around my city going from lowes, to home depot, to wal-mart and finding nothing but rye grass seed)  Can anyone point me in the right direction?

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OfflineRedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: brndnrchrdsn]
    #10062723 - 03/28/09 09:41 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

You can use WBS.  And why not just do everything at room temperature (70-75f), it does work better.  Ask any trusted cultivator.
EDIT: also, having the jars in a sealed container is bad too.


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

Edited by RedDevil420 (03/28/09 09:41 PM)

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Offlineoh_you_know
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Posts: 2,282
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Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: RedDevil420]
    #10062775 - 03/28/09 09:48 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

your jars look contam'd. at least one. they dont look white like myc


--------------------
My Journal

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OfflineDarkLotus
Its All Sunshine...
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Registered: 02/17/09
Posts: 135
Loc: Right next to the Beach, ...
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: oh_you_know]
    #10062966 - 03/28/09 10:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

TiT = Terrible Incubation Technique. Nice pictorial tho..


--------------------
"keep your schnoz clean ears open choppers zipped up
food clothes medicine 'cuz hungry naked sick sucks"

-Aesop Rock

"Walk through the time flux hand and hand with clear mind
Thoughts are harmonious like the rhythm of wind chimes"

-Twiztid

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
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Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: DarkLotus]
    #10063015 - 03/28/09 10:33 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I like what you did.. but they do look kinda bad.. I have done that too.. but the only thing is the incubation... room temp is fine.. if it is comfy for you, its comfy for the mushies.. I noticed that putting them in a heated environment actually can make the moisture "sweat", if you will, out of the substrate, resulting in puddles at the bottom of the jars and condensation on the inside of the jars.. although, if you are not having these issues, than you are good..

But with any grains like wbs, rye, popcorn, etc., you can get the bad end of the stick very quickly.. lol.. a small puddle can quickly rot the substrate.. it gets quite stinky, as well.. haha

again, it all depends on your climate.. if you are having it go well, then by all means, keep it that way, but try to keep a jar somewhere at room temp just to test what works better..

Edited by DJYoshaBYD (03/28/09 10:35 PM)

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Offlineshroomathan
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Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: oh_you_know]
    #10063250 - 03/28/09 11:15 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'm quite sure its myc because over night there appeared a few more white spots (I'll show all the pics later cause Ive just made a night of it....)
It may look like mold but this can be traced back to bad photo conditions (artificial light, flash, glass jars).
Furthermore I'm convinced by RR that 28° C are the optimum. You can go up with temperatures to about 35 degrees. If you exceed most of mushrooms will die, but before they will increase faster (but they dont grow optimally). At birthday-time you can shock them one night or incubate them at fruiting conditions immediately (a few degrees over room temperature)
You can watch RR's videos at http://www.mushroomvideos.com/ for detailed instructions


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
Male

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10063294 - 03/28/09 11:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

that is true, but did you take into account that the myc also generates its own heat? If your inc chamber is at 78 degrees, your temps in the middle of the jar could be as high as ~85 degrees...

RR is right.. but room temp also is a VERY VERY cheap way to go, and incubating does not increase as much time as you might think.. have you tried to do it without incubating? I get quart jars of wbs colonized in 10 days just sticking them in a cupboard with no heat source.. just room temp..

the only reason I say your jars look bad, is because the grain looks really dark, which is usually meaning that they are kinda rotting..

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
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Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #10063385 - 03/28/09 11:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I hope my jars are fresh :wink: I ordered them and inoculated 2 day later. My PC is arriving by mail...on monday I hope so! So was forced to buy jars cause I don't have one yet.
I also want to point out thats my very first indoor shroom project (you can take a look at my azurescens outdoor project).
I'm not sure if my arrangement is adaptable to everybody...I simply show a cheap and easy way - maybe to start with like me. And by the way everything is quite fine.
I'm aware that I have to learn and experience a lot and I'm looking forward to it...
shroom shroom


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
Male

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10063423 - 03/28/09 11:55 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I wasnt knocking you, my friend.. just offering advice.. lol..

shroom shroom

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
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Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #10063446 - 03/28/09 11:58 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I know dude :wink:
was only issuing a statement :cool:


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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InvisibleDJYoshaBYD
Male

Registered: 04/07/07
Posts: 2,405
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10063458 - 03/29/09 12:01 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

k.... AWKWAAAARDDDD.. hahahahahaha

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
Male


Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #10065303 - 03/29/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I'll show 2 more pics to persuade every doubters: its myc not mold


 

further will follow...


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
Male


Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10078220 - 03/31/09 01:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Pics of the above-shown jar with only one small point. you can see it developed very well within a few day. Like the others too...


 


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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Invisiblefreespeech
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Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 1,745
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Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10078296 - 03/31/09 02:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Your methods seem like a lot of extra work. I let my jars colonize at room temperature out in the open.

Let's see pics of your results with your setup, then we'll know what's up. :yesnod: Your most recent jar pic doesn't look that awesome.

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
Male


Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: freespeech]
    #10078675 - 03/31/09 05:59 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

there are no probs to let them grow at room temperature...but :wink:
you have to serve them humidity (to a very high level). of course you can do this with perlite or something equ. but
of you raise temp your shrooms with grow a lot faster! I've read in great post that temp should be little bit above room temps. Read:

"I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know"

I adopted temp too after I've read this post.



     

All the mycelium is white like on the 2nd pic...only looks little bit grey and dark to due light cond.


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

Edited by shroomathan (03/31/09 06:06 AM)

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10079006 - 03/31/09 08:25 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

shroomathan said:
there are no probs to let them grow at room temperature...but :wink:
you have to serve them humidity (to a very high level). of course you can do this with perlite or something equ. but
of you raise temp your shrooms with grow a lot faster! I've read in great post that temp should be little bit above room temps. Read:

"I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know"

I adopted temp too after I've read this post.



     

All the mycelium is white like on the 2nd pic...only looks little bit grey and dark to due light cond.




Dont take this the wrong way.

But you should really follow the entire method out before posting a howto, and id really suggest doing alot more reading and a little more experience also. You have picked up alot of misinformation. I spend alot of time correcting misinformation and it jsut keeps coming back. Even misinformation for years and years ago.

During incubation, you dont need high rh, it could acutualy be bad for your jars. Your using a filter to keep contamination out, if your filter gets damp contaminants can grow right through your filter. You dont need rh until fruiting. Your your iner tub is sealed so it wont be getting high rh.

Now having your incubation tub sealed is an issue. Your jars need gas exchange, and having them in a sealed tub is likely to not give them adequate gas exchange.

jars dont prefer to be colinised in the dark, it doesnt really make a difference, infact some say that jars colinised in the presence of light pin faster once in birthed and in fruiting conditions


I would avoid using that setup for fruiting, while the heated water may provide high rh  its also a breading ground for moulds and bacteria. moulds and bacteria.

Stick with proven methods like the shotgun fruiting chamber.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

Edited by veda_sticks (03/31/09 10:27 AM)

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OfflineRedDevil420
Antichrist

Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10079458 - 03/31/09 10:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
Quote:

shroomathan said:
there are no probs to let them grow at room temperature...but :wink:
you have to serve them humidity (to a very high level). of course you can do this with perlite or something equ. but
of you raise temp your shrooms with grow a lot faster! I've read in great post that temp should be little bit above room temps. Read:

"I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know"

I adopted temp too after I've read this post.



     

All the mycelium is white like on the 2nd pic...only looks little bit grey and dark to due light cond.




Dont take this the wrong way.

But you should really follow the entire method out before posting a howto, and id really suggest doing alot more reading and a little more experience also. You have picked up alot of misinformation. I spend alot of time correcting misinformation and it jsut keeps coming back. Even misinformation for years and years ago.

During incubation, you dont need high rh, it could acutualy be bad for your jars. Your using a filter to keep contamination out, if your filter gets damp contaminants can grow right through your filter. You dont need rh until fruiting. Your your iner tub is sealed so it wont be getting high rh.

Now having your incubation tub sealed is an issue. Your jars need gas exchange, and having them in a sealed tub is likely to not give them adequate gas exchange.

jars dont prefer to be colinised in the dark, it doesnt really make a difference, infact some say that jars colinised in the presence of light pin faster.


I would avoid using that setup for fruiting, while the heated water may provide high rh  its also a breading ground for moulds and bacteria. moulds and bacteria.

Stick with proven methods like the shotgun fruiting chamber.



:rofl2: so true


--------------------
I'm Just Making This All Up.
Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW.
Coir Monotubs FTW.
Sterile Technique FTW.
Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW.
Ralphster's Spores FTW.

Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball

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Offlineshroomathan
shroomer
Male


Registered: 03/19/09 Happy 15th Shroomiversary!
Posts: 57
Loc: Center of Europe
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: RedDevil420]
    #10223347 - 04/23/09 10:51 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I'm quite sure I've read enough posts and did a lot of other research, but of course I haven't had time yet to experiment cause I've just startet with shrooms shortly ago.

I post some more pics to show you the progress of my mycelium (and yes...it is myc!)

       

I also inoculated a PF cake. I know that it is TIT-made, but I simply tried to get the rest out of my syringe. I set my cam to show the current date, so that I don't have to write down everytime. the cake has a very untypically color which can be traced back to the usage of seramis (clay). I used self-grinded rice flour and I added a very small amount of supermarket-rye-flour too.

     
The black line is drawn with a whiteboard marker - only to see progresses of colonization



These are the latest pics of myc in the jars. I cased them 2 days ago.

   


and of course the cake:
     

and all together


--------------------
Ich kann tun was ich will, wenn ich will, aber ich vermag nicht es zu wollen, weil die entgegenstehenden Motive zu viel Gewalt über mich haben, als dass ich es könnte!
  means
I can do what I will, if I will, but I cannot will this, because the opposing motives have too much power over me to be able to will it!

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Invisibleshroomzey
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Posts: 904
Re: How to: very cheap and easy incubation AND fruiting chamber [Re: shroomathan]
    #10223383 - 04/23/09 10:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

shroomathan said:
... I've just startet with shrooms shortly ago.





I'm backing up veda on everything he said.  There is a lot of misinformation in this, and posting it as a tek makes me cringe.

I'm sure we both know how annoying it is to keep seeing out-dated info being brought back in the form of advice or teks...

For any new people reading this... this should definitely serve as something NOT to do...


--------------------

200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them.  I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.

Edited by shroomzey (04/23/09 11:00 PM)

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