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OfflineMJF
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emotional connotations...
    #10028268 - 03/23/09 06:02 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

have you heard of the study where they discovered babies smile more frequently at pretty faces as apposed to ugly ones?

i'm not sure if i picked the right subject line...and i haven't really formulated an idea.

but if babies are more inclined to smile at pretty faces, could this also apply to other things like sounds, words, shapes, symbols, textures, color, images, or anything really.

and how do these early impressions shape our connotations towards things later in life?

anyone know of any good studies/articles done on these sort of things. i need some reading material.

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MJF]
    #10028386 - 03/23/09 06:19 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I've read that attractive people, on average, gain others' trust much easier than ugly people. Too bad good looks aren't synonymous with good morals.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Cameron]
    #10028740 - 03/23/09 07:17 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

There's heaps of research on this. The 'preferential looking' paradigm is usually used for testing it. I.e. who does the baby look at more often.

Look up "preferential looking" and "baby" and "attractive" on google scholar and you'll find articles.


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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MJF]
    #10028804 - 03/23/09 07:26 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

MJF said:
and how do these early impressions shape our connotations towards things later in life?





I've heard of evolutionary theorist suggesting that attractiveness and anatomical symmetry implies good health and an absence of genetic mutation, therefore babies (and people in general) have a cognitive bias towards paying more attention to attractive people, so that one day we might be able to breed with them.

Extrapolating from this, an example.. a typically 'good looking' person can be really unattractive when sick, whilst a typically 'ugly' person can make themself more attractive when they are at the peak of good physical and mental health. Both are limited by genetics to some extent.


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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MJF]
    #10028818 - 03/23/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 8 days ago)

archtypes bro  :vaped:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Cameron]
    #10031018 - 03/24/09 03:09 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
I've read that attractive people, on average, gain others' trust much easier than ugly people. Too bad good looks aren't synonymous with good morals.





It's a shame that both attractiveness and morality are such subjective terms so we can know what you're talking about. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10031033 - 03/24/09 03:17 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

For the sake of my Ted Bundy example, attractiveness is determined by facial symmetry, and morality by how many random women one has murdered and then corpse-fucked.

Are those boundaries too fuzzy for you? I know you're all about subjective interpretation.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Cameron]
    #10031037 - 03/24/09 03:22 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

attractiveness is determined by facial symmetry




This explain why so many people still have completely tastes in people and what they consider to be attractive. :rolleyes:

Quote:

and morality by how many random women one has murdered and then corpse-fucked.




So one who hasn't done any of these have a perfect morality?

Quote:

Are those boundaries too fuzzy for you? I know you're all about subjective interpretation.




They're completely vague. And please leave aside what you think you know about me, and focus on the subject. :wink:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleMr. Mushrooms
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10031090 - 03/24/09 04:16 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I think he was trying to say that Ted Bundy would be considered attractive to most people and that Ted was immoral.

Do you agree or disagree with those points?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Mr. Mushrooms]
    #10031143 - 03/24/09 05:20 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

I don't know how appealing Ted Bundys' looks are for most people, so I can't answer this question. I also can't give a definite answer regarding the degree of his morality, since, even though this term exists because people created it, it doesn't mean that it is logical or that it exists as a universal truth. I am able to identify what are the general moral norms in the Western civilization, and according to them, I can see how one could draw the conclusion that Ted Bundy was being immoral, but let's not forget that these norms aren't the only ones, nor that they have changed and reshaped so many times before.


--------------------
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
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:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineNoteworthy
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10031173 - 03/24/09 05:58 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

How can anyone be surprised that babies look at attractive people more?
If you werent afraid of being caught staring at someone, you would probably stare at attractive people more too!

It is because attractive people are.. attractive.. ?? how can this be a matter of debate? attractive people are more pleasurable to focus on?

but

What makes someone attractive?

Well if it affects babies then it is likely to do with something about the way that our perceptual systems pick up facial features. Attractive faces probably activate our perceptual machinery in a clear, distinct manner.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Noteworthy]
    #10031187 - 03/24/09 06:04 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Noteworthy said:
...babies look at attractive people more?




Source?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

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:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #10031206 - 03/24/09 06:13 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

Click here for sources from google scholar

The first off the list...

Slater, A., Von der Schulenburg, C., Brown, E., Badenoch, M., Butterworth, G., Parsons, S., et al. (1998). Newborn infants prefer attractive faces. Infant Behavior and Development, 21, 345-354.

Quote:


Abstract

Several previous experiments have found that infants 2 months of age and older will spend more time looking at attractive faces when these are shown paired with faces judged by adults to be unattractive. Two experiments are described whose aim was to find whether the “attractiveness effect” is present soon after birth. In both, pairings of attractive and unattractive female faces (as judged by adult raters) were shown to newborn infants (in the age range 14–151 hours from birth), and in both the infants looked longer at the attractive faces. These findings can be interpreted either in terms of an innate perceptual mechanism that detects and responds specifically to faces, or in terms of rapid learning about faces soon after birth.

Author Keywords: newborns; face perception; attractiveness




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OfflineMJF
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Mufungo]
    #10031336 - 03/24/09 07:19 AM (15 years, 8 days ago)

thanks for posting that Mufango.

MT: i think your argument is a bit too dense for this subject. we can speak about attractiveness and morals from a statistical sense. more people will agree that a symetrical face is attractive rather than it's opposite. and i also think most of us in this world will agree senseless killing of others is morally wrong, whether or not it is a universal truth. 

when you look at the research attractivness really doesn't stay as subjective as one might think.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MJF]
    #10031438 - 03/24/09 08:01 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Ok, what kind of statistics are we taking about? On what part of the globe, on what people, and from which culture do they belong? I didn't read that particular research with the infants (maybe I will a bit later), but from what I gather here, they do seem to respond more positive to people with a symmetric face. It doesn't mean that the infants are perceiving that as being attractiveness. Maybe it is something else in those traits that make them smile. My guess is that it might have something more to do with feeling safe.
Again, I don't know what statistics you're talking about, but I'd like to see what you're talking about.
All the research I have read about attractiveness, was pointing towards the fact that, even of some people find a symmetric face and body to be attractive, people also find other things appealing, such as the particular way someone smiles or laughs, the way their personality is, if they have muscles (which BTW doesn't have to do with body symmetry), and other stuff like that. Saying that the majority are looking for symmetry, when there's insufficient data to show this, is an exaggeration.

As for the killing part, I guess I just need more info about what exactly you understand by senseless killing, and what would constitute a "moral" crime. From where I'm standing, it is impossible to determine how justifiable Ted Bundys murders were, since nobody can get into someone else's mind so well to know exactly what happens there. Why even bring morals into discussion, since its such a flawed system of measurement, and the sense of value it carries with it is for those who are aren't committing murders just because it is immoral?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleMufungo
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10031476 - 03/24/09 08:18 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

There have been preferential looking studies where they compared attractiveness against symmetry and attractiveness got the babies attention over symmetry. So yes, symmetry does not necessarily equal attractive. As for generalisations of attractiveness - it has been consistent even across cultures, and the data seems robust. But that said, it's all a generalisation so it doesn't define attractiveness exactly and nor does it consider or explain individual differences. I don't think there's any research looking into trying to explain why some people (including babies) don't have a preference for looking at the generally attractive people.

I would like to see longitudinal studies to see whether tastes in attractiveness change over decades or longer and see whether babies' preferences mimic changes in adult population tastes.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #10031483 - 03/24/09 08:21 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/resources/pdf/symmetry.pdf


there is tons of research out there to look at. this stuff is cross- cultural too.

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Ok, what kind of statistics are we taking about?



I only know of one kind. The sort you get from controlled experiments/surveys.
Quote:


On what part of the globe, on what people, and from which culture do they belong? I didn't read that particular research with the infants (maybe I will a bit later), but from what I gather here, they do seem to respond more positive to people with a symmetric face. It doesn't mean that the infants are perceiving that as being attractiveness.



You're right in saying that they infants aren't necessarily perceiving them as attractive. But there is a correlation between their reaction to their faces and those faces being attractive. That's the interesting part.
Quote:

Maybe it is something else in those traits that make them smile. My guess is that it might have something more to do with feeling safe.



That is a very interesting guess. But why would the features of a face have anything to do with the babies feelings of safeness....or at least...how does the baby sense the difference?
Quote:


Again, I don't know what statistics you're talking about, but I'd like to see what you're talking about.



see above. and many more out there if you dig a little.
Quote:


All the research I have read about attractiveness, was pointing towards the fact that, even of some people find a symmetric face and body to be attractive, people also find other things appealing, such as the particular way someone smiles or laughs, the way their personality is, if they have muscles (which BTW doesn't have to do with body symmetry), and other stuff like that. Saying that the majority are looking for symmetry, when there's insufficient data to show this, is an exaggeration.




well there definitely is not insufficient data. and i don't know what you are talking about when you say that muscles have nothing to do with body symmetry. i don't think a girl would like the look of a huge right bicep and a tiny left one on a boy. body building judges look for symmetry.
Quote:


As for the killing part, I guess I just need more info about what exactly you understand by senseless killing, and what would constitute a "moral" crime. From where I'm standing, it is impossible to determine how justifiable Ted Bundys murders were, since nobody can get into someone else's mind so well to know exactly what happens there. Why even bring morals into discussion, since its such a flawed system of measurement, and the sense of value it carries with it is for those who are aren't committing murders just because it is immoral?




i agree with this....but morals are brought into this because based on these sorts of experiments it seems as if particular tastes, or connotations, are inherent (that may be a stretch). I think morals are just an evolutionary tool of survival for our species.

Another interesting thing along the same sort of lines is emotional and physiological effects colors can have on us.

Edited by MJF (03/24/09 08:28 AM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Mufungo]
    #10031634 - 03/24/09 09:16 AM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

I would like to see longitudinal studies to see whether tastes in attractiveness change over decades or longer and see whether babies' preferences mimic changes in adult population tastes.




That'd be cool to see indeed. :sherlock:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleCameron
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: MJF]
    #10032972 - 03/24/09 02:07 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

MT: i think your argument is a bit too dense




Understatement of the century? :strokebeard:

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OfflineMJF
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Re: emotional connotations... [Re: Cameron]
    #10033090 - 03/24/09 02:29 PM (15 years, 7 days ago)

i was really hoping to see some more insights into these types of studies or other studies along those same lines....not debate on whether or not there are universal morals.


i think archtypes were mentioned above...

what do ya'll know about these? where do they come from or how did they originate?

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