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OfflinedeXtrous
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Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin?
    #10018207 - 03/22/09 04:19 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Hey all. I am a really depressed and nervous guy in real life. When I see friends I find it hard to talk and relate to them to the point where I'm losing most of my friends and I can't make any new ones.

Well I've just noticed every time I do ecstasy (not very often) I find it incredibly easy and fun to talk with people. I can relate to them and be totally free from all anxiety and fear of judgement. I've begun to think I have very low serotonin levels which physically make me incapable of relating and talking/joking with people. I've tried so hard all my life just to relate and be able to communicate with people (literally since I was a young boy). It's really frustrating. I don't want to be a loner but it seems that is my destiny unless I can somehow fix this.

Do you think this is a reasonable excuse for my lifelong depression and anxiety?

Has anyone got any help to get my life on track? It's hard for me to even keep a job since I am really really quiet and people generally don't like my personality.

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OfflineCoaster
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: deXtrous]
    #10018210 - 03/22/09 04:21 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

ya dood thats why tons of ppl get on antidepressants
wut they do is exactly like what ecstasy does just a lot less bang
but those meds are very addicting once ur on them its really hard to get off them


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OfflinedeXtrous
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Coaster]
    #10018213 - 03/22/09 04:23 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Yeah mate it's a hard choice.. Live my life as a social outcast with no friends or to get addicted to prescription drugs and improve the way I live... I just kind of want some advice.

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Invisiblenalyudi
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: deXtrous]
    #10018230 - 03/22/09 04:31 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

depression runs in my family. i say you go talk to a doc. with the right combo of meds (which can take time to figure out) i bet things will start looking up. squeeze every little drop of happiness you can out of life, it's too short of a ride to sit back and watch it go by

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OfflineDark_globe
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: nalyudi]
    #10018258 - 03/22/09 04:59 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

do you smoke weed? if so, stop. that fucks with your serotonin levels

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InvisibleBridgeburner
Not spiritual at all.
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Dark_globe]
    #10018273 - 03/22/09 05:07 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

serotonin plays a part but i think it's naive to think that it's all there is.


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OfflinedeXtrous
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10018297 - 03/22/09 05:23 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Dark_globe said:
do you smoke weed? if so, stop. that fucks with your serotonin levels




No I quit smoking weed a couple of months ago, because when I was high it would make my situation even worse to the point where I couldn't even mutter out basic sentences or anything after a bong or two.



Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
serotonin plays a part but i think it's naive to think that it's all there is.




I'm sure this is right but as I said, when I do ecstasy I'm instantly cured from all my anxiety and fear of being judged. I am still a bit of an insensitive asshole when I'm on pills, I still seem to argue with people more than I agree, but, I still believe my serotonin levels are playing a bigger role in my downfall. Like you said, the serotonin is not all there is in need of fixing. It is however the critical thing, the key if you like, that will release me from chains that inhibit my mind. Once my mind is free I will be able to work on my other social problems (for instance getting along with people and being more complimentary in my nature).

It may sound a bit 'emo' or whatever but it just feels like I'm trapped in a never ending, non curable (by natural/psychological means) depression that is seriously putting a big damper on my will to live and be 'normal'. Right now I cannot imagine myself having a girlfriend who I can keep for longer than a couple of weeks. People just get sick of me because I'm very monotonous and boring. It sucks and I really want to change.

Edited by deXtrous (03/22/09 05:23 AM)

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: deXtrous]
    #10018308 - 03/22/09 05:34 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

You control your brain.

If someone thinks depressive thoughts and is always anxious then the unconscious mind associates these feelings with everything and it becomes a perpetuated cycle.

If you start acting the way you want to be - your brain will follow suit.  Pretend to be happy, pretend to not be nervous and keep doing it until you have trained yourself to remove the old associations.  Happiness, contentedness and confidence will become real - the same as the depression and anxiety you have unwittingly manifested is real for you now.  :smile:

Trust me.  We live in an age of lies.  Instant fix pills for everything you can imagine.  Its bullshit.  IMO I could cure many peoples "depression" just by taking them on holiday, teaching them to retrain their thought patterns and have some goals to achieve in their lives.

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InvisibleGr33nTree73
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10018477 - 03/22/09 07:08 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
You control your brain.

If someone thinks depressive thoughts and is always anxious then the unconscious mind associates these feelings with everything and it becomes a perpetuated cycle.

If you start acting the way you want to be - your brain will follow suit.  Pretend to be happy, pretend to not be nervous and keep doing it until you have trained yourself to remove the old associations.  Happiness, contentedness and confidence will become real - the same as the depression and anxiety you have unwittingly manifested is real for you now.  :smile:

Trust me.  We live in an age of lies.  Instant fix pills for everything you can imagine.  Its bullshit.  IMO I could cure many peoples "depression" just by taking them on holiday, teaching them to retrain their thought patterns and have some goals to achieve in their lives.




Antidepressants are bullshit, they are a quick fix, that don't fix anything... they just mask the side effects of depression and make you feel good and as soon as you take them away depression roles back on in.

You wanna get out of depression you have to put in the effort.  Change your attitude, seek out your spirituality (I recently became interested in Buddhism in the last few months), start eating healthy, and get lots of exercise and time outside. 

And if you need something to aid you along the way try St. John's Wort but specifically KIRA brand St. John's Wort.  You can get it quite cheap on amazon and don't be fooled by cheaper extractions, the quality and effect are well worth the price.  You could also try a high end 5-htp extract but make sure it is Standardized extract and not some cheap crap once again as with supplements quality is key


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #10018563 - 03/22/09 07:36 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Yes, its well known about and well studied yet these pharmaceutical companies push to sell their products and unfortunately doctors tend to just go along with the standard practices of providing a quick fix pill.  Many of them don't even realize how heavily their medical profession is influenced by the money from a huge corporation pushing to sell its "quick fix" products.

:sad:

If people doubt their ability to change their selves then look at these articles.  Brain scans have proven that we can physically change our brain chemistry through thought or meditation...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3047291.stm
http://www.physorg.com/news125767090.html
http://www.livescience.com/health/070629_naming_emotions.html

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OfflineJamz
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #10018597 - 03/22/09 07:50 AM (15 years, 10 days ago)

Yes, depression is often related to low levels of seritonin. In some cases medication is required to bring serotonin levels up to where they should but they're a helping hand, not a magic fix - if you don't learn to take control of your state of mind then all the anti-depressent medication in the world isn't going to help you.

I don't know what your particular situation is but I'd recommend you go see a doctor and get a referral to a psych. First line of treatment for depression is usually CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), where you basically learn ways to take control of the shit that gets you down. Quite often that is enough and there's no need to resort to medication (which no secret, is over-prescribed).

Its not worth putting up with shit man, go get help and get yourself back on track!

Edit: just noticed your from australia too. If you go see your GP and get a referral to a psych, your psych treatment gets subsidised by medicare :smile:

Edited by Jamz (03/22/09 07:55 AM)

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OfflinedeXtrous
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Jamz]
    #10097184 - 04/02/09 08:50 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

So.. Which do you think is more effective, St. Johns Wort or 5-HTP? I'm betting they will both work for me since I have all the 'symptoms' of a low serotonin level person.

Cheers for the replies. I don't want to get on any heavy meds like SSRI's.

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: deXtrous]
    #10097350 - 04/02/09 09:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

deXtrous said:
Hey all. I am a really depressed and nervous guy in real life. When I see friends I find it hard to talk and relate to them to the point where I'm losing most of my friends and I can't make any new ones.

Well I've just noticed every time I do ecstasy (not very often) I find it incredibly easy and fun to talk with people. I can relate to them and be totally free from all anxiety and fear of judgement. I've begun to think I have very low serotonin levels which physically make me incapable of relating and talking/joking with people. I've tried so hard all my life just to relate and be able to communicate with people (literally since I was a young boy). It's really frustrating. I don't want to be a loner but it seems that is my destiny unless I can somehow fix this.

Do you think this is a reasonable excuse for my lifelong depression and anxiety?

Has anyone got any help to get my life on track? It's hard for me to even keep a job since I am really really quiet and people generally don't like my personality.




The problem is, is you won't go out of your comfort zone. To make friends you need to have some confidence and GET OUT OF THAT SAFETY BOX. No harm is going to be done upon you by trying to make some new friends. Stop giving a rats ass about people's opinions and just BE YOURSELF.

All ecstasy does is throw you in a safety zone, but that safety zone happens to be everyone. Just GET YOURSELF OUT THERE. Have confidence in your speech, and don't be afraid to speak your mind. You are a man, you are in control, and you can do this. You can have all the friends you want to have, you just have to go out there and meet them.

I can relate to you, when I was younger say 9-14 I had huge, HUGE problems talking to people, and I was just naturally introverted. As I grew older I became more and more extroverted. Just put yourself out there. YOU CAN DO IT.

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OfflineCokedUpHobit64
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10097403 - 04/02/09 09:19 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Ego Death said:
You control your brain.

If someone thinks depressive thoughts and is always anxious then the unconscious mind associates these feelings with everything and it becomes a perpetuated cycle.

If you start acting the way you want to be - your brain will follow suit.  Pretend to be happy, pretend to not be nervous and keep doing it until you have trained yourself to remove the old associations.  Happiness, contentedness and confidence will become real - the same as the depression and anxiety you have unwittingly manifested is real for you now.  :smile:

Trust me.  We live in an age of lies.  Instant fix pills for everything you can imagine.  Its bullshit.  IMO I could cure many peoples "depression" just by taking them on holiday, teaching them to retrain their thought patterns and have some goals to achieve in their lives.




qft

I've never taken anti-depressants, but I've done my fair share of benzos.

Its hard to accept at first theirs no pill you cant take to cure depression and anxiety without any backlash int he long run.

But once you realize you can control it......its a very liberating feeling.

Start pretending to have all the things you want, act confident in public, almost like an asshole, and eventually you wont need to pretend anymore.


--------------------
So good to see you, I've missed you so much.


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Invisibleflexintexan
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Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Fresno Flag
Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: CokedUpHobit64]
    #10098463 - 04/03/09 12:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

There are several respectable theories on serotonin's role in depression. But just because the drug companies sell SSRIs, they will hype it up. Dopamine, epinephrine, and hormones can play a role in depression, and there are better theories beyond simple serotonin. IMO, there is a good one outlining expected outcomes with serotonin and epinepherine that are believed to be predictors for depression and bipolar emotions. Sometimes it isn't the neurotransmitter, but the receptor may be damaged. Even your job or your partner might be the source.

Depending on who treats you with an SSRI and with what type and dosage, treatment ranges from all out bombardment to tweaking serotonin activity and observing for progress.

Don't buy into the simplest answer someone gives you.

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OfflineLouiscypher
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: flexintexan]
    #10098479 - 04/03/09 12:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Salvia Divinorum works well for depression also. I have smoked it several times (10x extract) and the after glow lasts for a few days as a really big uplift in mood. Not suggesting using it but that is the effect I got from it. Pharmaceuticals are more of a money making gimmic than anything. Here is a case study also:


Ms. G is a 26-year-old woman with a history of depression that has shown no significant periods of remission since adolescence and has been predominated by feelings of worthlessness, lack of interest in social activities, an absence of occupational satisfaction, and inability to find "purpose and meaning" in her life. After first seeking treatment for her depression 5 years ago Ms. G was prescribed sertraline, 50 mg daily, which she self-discontinued after 3 months, reporting no significant benefits. Ms. G then underwent a course of cognitive-behavioural therapy for about 6 months, with some improvement but no definitive resolution of her symptoms. Hamilton Depression Rating Scale (HAM-D 1 ) scores during the 6-month period of cognitive-behavioural therapy were consistently in the moderately depressed range (i.e. 19–21).

During a review consultation some 7 months after discontinuing cognitive-behavioural therapy Ms. G claimed to have found relief from her symptoms of depression with use of the herb salvia divinorum sourced through a mail-order herbal supplier. A HAM-D score of 2 confirmed remission of her symptoms of depression at this time. Ms. G claims that she discovered its antidepressant effects accidentally after smoking the herb and had later developed a method of oral consumption which she claimed maintained its antidepressant effects even after she abstained from using it for up to a week.

Despite being cautioned against use of a herb whose safety profile was unknown, she has continued to use a preparation of salvia divinorum leaves taken as an oral dose of 2–3 leaves (1/2 to 3/4 of a gram of leaf material) three times per week (the leaves are chewed and held in the mouth for 15–30 minutes). During this period she has continued to show a total remission of her symptoms of depression according to HAM-D scores in the range of 0–2 and has maintained this improvement for the last 6 months, showing no signs of relapse and reporting only minimal side effects, such as occasional lightheadedness for up to 1 hour after using the herb.

Ms. G volunteered that she has also benefited from occasional intoxicating oral doses of salvia divinorum, consisting of from 8–16 leaves of the herb (approximately 2 to 4 grams), claiming that this herb had engendered a kind of "psychospiritual" awakening, characterized by the discovery of the depth of her sense of self, greater self-confidence, increased feelings of intuitive wisdom and "connectedness to nature."

Discussion

Salvia divinorum is a perennial herb of the Labiateae (mint) family native to the Sierra Mazateca region of Oaxaca, Mexico. 2–4 Its main constituents have been identified as the neoclerodane diterpenes Salvinorin A and B 5,6 while trace elements of several other diterpenes have also been detected. 6 The plant has been used in healing ceremonies by the Mazatec Indians of Oaxaca for centuries and for the treatment of such conditions as anaemia, headache, and rheumatism. 7 The psychoactive effects of the main ingredient Salvinorin A in humans were uncovered recently and it has enjoyed some popularity since that time as a legal, short-acting psychedelic, though its psychoactivity varies considerably depending on dosage and method of ingestion. 8

This unique case may be of interest to the psychiatric and psychopharmacological communities in demonstrating the possible therapeutic effects of the unique active components of salvia divinorum in a case of treatmentresistant depression. While the typical dose used by this patient in maintenance management of her depression, consisting of 2–3 leaves, is well below that reported to cause significant intoxication when taken orally, 8 one cannot discount the possibility that some of the benefits derived from salvia divinorum were due to the psychedelic qualities associated with the larger doses of this herb used occasionally by this patient.

While a discussion of these effects is outside the scope of this paper, the value of psychedelic compounds as research tools and their beneficial effects in the amelioration of symptoms of psychiatric conditions is well established. 9–11 Given that the mechanisms of action of the constituents of salvia divinorum remain unknown and the spectrum of psychedelic effects of this herb appears to be unique, 8 it is not inconceivable that research using the active ingredients from this herb may pinpoint a unique mechanism of antidepressant action for these compounds. This, in turn, could lead to methods for the management of depression or of treatment-resistant subtypes of this condition. This possibility is further enhanced by the recent finding using the screening procedure called Novascreen that Salvinorin A did not show significant inhibition of reference target compounds on any of the 42 known bioreceptors tested. 8 We may be dealing with a highly novel agent that has significant research and therapeutic potential in fields such as psychopharmacology, psychiatry and complementary disciplines such as herbal medicine.

Karl R. Hanes, PhD

Cognitive-Behavioural Treatment Centre, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia


--------------------
1) Cars can hurt you.
2) You cannot fly.
3) It's never a good time to die.
4) Taking your clothes off will draw attention.
5) Keep your mouth shut at all times while in public.
6) Although you may see things that are not there, you won't NOT see things that are there.
7) Don't forget how to breathe.
8) Only carry: a house-key, some loose change, and your address in your shoe.
9) Nobody can tell that you are tripping until you tell them "I'm tripping".
10) No matter how fucked-up you think you are, you'll eventually come down.

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OfflineFruitboot
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Louiscypher]
    #10098598 - 04/03/09 01:34 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

ecstacy not only FUCKS up your seretonin levels but it also shrinks serotonin receptors.  quiting use will restore them, but they will never be as good as they once were.

stop using X dude.  its not giving you any long term benefits.  if anything you are getting double whammyed

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Invisibleflexintexan
Future DO
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Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 517
Loc: Fresno Flag
Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: Fruitboot]
    #10098613 - 04/03/09 01:43 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Fruitboot said:
ecstacy not only FUCKS up your seretonin levels but it also shrinks serotonin receptors.  quiting use will restore them, but they will never be as good as they once were.

stop using X dude.  its not giving you any long term benefits.  if anything you are getting double whammyed




I always thought X was more suitable for couples that want to do battle and break up. I don't understand how it could benefit one person in the long term.

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OfflinedeXtrous
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Registered: 04/24/06
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: flexintexan]
    #10098965 - 04/03/09 05:24 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

SonicKuz said:
There are several respectable theories on serotonin's role in depression. But just because the drug companies sell SSRIs, they will hype it up. Dopamine, epinephrine, and hormones can play a role in depression, and there are better theories beyond simple serotonin. IMO, there is a good one outlining expected outcomes with serotonin and epinepherine that are believed to be predictors for depression and bipolar emotions. Sometimes it isn't the neurotransmitter, but the receptor may be damaged. Even your job or your partner might be the source.

Depending on who treats you with an SSRI and with what type and dosage, treatment ranges from all out bombardment to tweaking serotonin activity and observing for progress.

Don't buy into the simplest answer someone gives you.




Sorry I don't quite understand what you're saying. Are you suggesting I try out some SSRI's to see if they have a positive effect on me even after discontinued use? Or are you backing up other peoples' claims that they are indeed useless and will just resort in further depression once discontinued.



Quote:

Fruitboot said:
ecstacy not only FUCKS up your seretonin levels but it also shrinks serotonin receptors.  quiting use will restore them, but they will never be as good as they once were.

stop using X dude.  its not giving you any long term benefits.  if anything you are getting double whammyed





I do X maybe once every three months, as I said I'm not really a habitual user of x. Besides, I felt this way long before I ever touched ecstasy. Ecstasy actually helped me in realising that there is a possibility that I can be normal in social situations, it gave me faith that maybe one day I can act like that without the drug.

LouiscypherS, that's quite interesting about salvia, such a shame we (Australia) outlawed it so early and I have nowhere to obtain it from (I'm aware you are from WA too but some people just aren't so lucky to have it available).

Thanks for the replies once again. Lately I have been listening to the audio series found here. It involves a lot of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy as mentioned in this thread so hopefully this will lead me somewhere. If this fails I'm seeing a doc.

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Offlinecdubbz111
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Re: Depression = Chemical inbalance of serotonin? [Re: deXtrous]
    #10098984 - 04/03/09 05:46 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

:roulette:  the fact of the matter is that life is depressing, and the only thing you can do is enjoy what you have. I went through the same shit you are, but jesus, i can guarantee that you dont have it
"bad"  shit, see a doc, get some droogz whatever it takes, your goal is to live one amazing life,  if you live it the right way, one life time is all you will need.  My mother told me that on her death bed, its good wisdom to live by.

good luck cuz life sux


--------------------

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