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Clordio said:
I apologize but could you elaborate on the meaning of these archetypes jivJaN?

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Clordio said:
I apologize but could you elaborate on the meaning of these archetypes jivJaN?

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These are symbols from the "tarot" explained as examples of the archetypes which the our galaxy/logos sets up for all beings evolving spiritually.
I guess cosmonauts explanation is close , although i like to think of all such things as mysterious and really hard to explain with preciseness.
Basically its like a curriculum you go through with personal experience until you gain the necessary knowledge to go to the next phase of evolution.
Culminating at the end with contact with intelligent infinity , and then the choice of how you will be further evolving and what kind of environment you will find yourself in.
Service-to-self and Service-to-others entities through evolution in the densities 4 and above , constantly strive to  polarize more towards one of these two "options" ( + ; - )
For this reason harmonious co-existing of both types of beings is very difficult if not impossible on the same planetary sphere. Also the teachings are very different , as the negatively polarized or STS try to absorb this light for the self and deal with control through fear and have a very hierarchical "society" similar to our current one , only on a much higher level of awareness , intelligence and technology.
The STO dedicate themselves to polarizing positively  through the teachings of oneness and radiating love and light to others to help the evolution of all sentient beings.
in a nutshell
This is why the choice is at the end of this "curriculum" in this school(planet earth) which is supposed to teach the lessons of love , peace and the importance of free will.
Many have claimed to have experienced this state of oneness , when you kinda feel like all knowledge is available to you , there is no time and no individuality .
You are .. God.
Also.. many people with intense experiences have actually reported being offered a choice in such a profoundly enlightened state during a psychedelic/meditative experience.
I personally look at this as network you can log on to .. with psilocybin or ayahuasca if you are skilled enough and if you have come to a point where you need this contact.
In my certainly limited understanding i have come to a conclusion that contact with intelligent infinity is something we can all achieve through these helper plants , or fungi..
or with the dmt in our bodies or if induced from an external source.
Meditation being one of the most important factors.
I can validate my own opinion , i guess , with personal experience.. and the choice was made.
So.. if anyone else knows what the hell im talking about .. the question still remains :
What did you do ?

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eve69 said:
22=0 as The Fool is never scored as the 22nd card. 

Tarot is never meant to be seen as some sort of ascension tool. Rather it is a book of possibilities, for the most part also manifest.  Meaning that it dies not pertain to strictly spiritual life. If so then it would have been transcending to the tarot, or off the wheel. 

Where do you get the notion of 'ascension' from anyway. It's not Judeochristian, nor is it Eastern. Nor also is it Occult from the Western perspective. I am thinking you're reading some spiritual con artist like Creme or Prophet.

So again I ask, from where is this vocabulary?

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The Tarot and the Archetypes are simply a metaphor.
The Ascension i speak of is the alignment with the galactic center .
Our planet is a sentient being which is getting close to the end of its own cycle , thus ending its 3rd density experience and going into the 4th.
During this transition entities on its plane are harvested and through time/space via star-gates of some sorts are transported to this new 4th density plane of our planet.
Those who have more to learn through the incarnational experience of 3rd density will find themselves on another planetary sphere that still exist in this density and is hospitable for the above mentioned entities.
My knowledge , if it is such , comes from various sources and from personal experience with meditation and altered states.(psychedelics , dreaming .. and in general a very magical life i have been leading for quite some time know. Shining with synchronicity , paranormal events and the obvious progress within this physical illusion we co-create during this experience.
The quotations along with the descriptions of the archetypes come from the books called The Law of One series.
It was written by Don Elkins , Carla Reuckert  and Jim McCarty.
Carla was channeling a 7th density entity who calls himself RA.
He.. is actually what they call a social memory complex that completed their ascension a long time ago with our  measurements of "time".
They naively tried to help by coming personally to our planet and attempting to spread their knowledge.
They built the pyramids , were and still are , as they claim , humble messengers of the Law of One.
As their visitations and teachings were distorted by are still limited perception , they were perceived as gods and many  other distortions followed , thus they were carmically involved and have had to continue with their service.
These sessions actually validated many of the thoughts and theories i had before even finding this material , thus i was more drawn to it.
The idea of this transformation , ascension ...call it what you may has become a widely spread notion so far  and i am merely presenting another way of looking at it which does not stem only from the reading material , nor do i try to steer people towards it.
For those who find MY writings in "resonance" with their own seeking process , i present a question. Which still  hasnt been answered btw..
The vocabulary is irrelevant. I always try to stress the importance of the message rather than its origins or the individual behind it.
Play with the idea if you wish , and remember all the profound experiences you had , if you have ...
and if you find some connection with what i am saying , let me know what you think.. or what you have done.
No one has to go along .. and many people wont have the slightest clue of what im talking about. All is good. We are here to communicate and ponder on the mystery however it may be presented by some nutcase out there like me.
So never mind the sources ..
Belief systems  such as religion have never done any good.. at least so far. So cast aside any stereotypical category you might place me in.. and  we might even find common ground with this discussion

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lavod said:
I have some major trouble with that sts/sto concept.  When you read into much of this channeled information, I find that there are many instances of hypocrisy.  For instance, these people(channelers of the Ra material, Cassiopaean, etc) claim that there is much deception from 4th density sts yet fully trust the information they receive by claiming that it is from 6th or 7th density.  It would be okay if the information made sense(it usually could be considered to make sense, sometimes not), but their excuse can always be that we are bound by 3rd density concepts. 

But what I'm saying is that I get the impression that this channeled material sets off many red flags for deception with me.  They'll claim that we're all deluded for trusting belief systems and religion, yet if you accept them are you not following a belief system?  I resonate with (technically)channeled material myself, Thelema, and am not saying that all channeled material is bogus.  I accept and trust Thelema due to the fact that not only do I consider it to make sense, but it is something that allows for the development of dynamic individuality.  I do not get the impression that a so-called higher power is trying to deceive humanity by denouncing concepts which they themselves epitomize.  I also think the channeler of Thelema, Aleister Crowley, was extremely intelligent and trustworthy, if not terribly eccentric and misunderstood(he had to be).  Laura Knight-Jadczyk of Cassiopaean material fame is a delusional criminal, pure and simple.  If she comes back to the U.S., she will be throw in jail for her house raffle scam.  A pure fraud.  If you go to her message board, if you question the material, you will get banned instantly.  Sorry for my rant, it's just that the Ra material and Cassiopaean garbage(perhaps the Marciniak stuff too, but I do'nt know much about it) tends to embody the very things they supposedly go against if you think about it.  I could go on with more stuff, but I'll cease for now.  I'd say take all channeled material with a grain of salt and question frequently(I did with Thelema, the 3rd chapter is very hard to accept at first, and eventually could not fault it).

I agree with eve69 in that the Tarot is not an ascension tool.  All the cards tie into each other.  Is not Malkuth in Kether?  I tend to accept the tarot correspondences listed in 777 with the paths of the tree of life.  Seems more complete.  Tarot relationship with the alignment of the galactic center seems flimsy to me.

Post below: Clubs??

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Like i said in an earlier post .. forget the source..
Im not trying to make a debate here. People should always trust in their own intuition and if something doesnt sound right with you , by all means disregard it.
The Forum is Mysticism and Paranormal , so it would be obvious that these theories could be the subject of discussion and that is exactly what i  intended.
I know that many people are starting to tune into the whole 2012 story.
David Wilcocks 2012 Enigma was the most watched video on google in december 08.
And the whole idea behind it is this ascension.
Maybe im getting something wrong here but , i dont exactly go to whiskey drinking posts and tell them that alcohol is bad.
I never said that the tarot was an ascension tool.
I did say it was a metaphor though..

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Clordio said:
If one were to be a certain archetype, could that same person achieve another archetype in that same lifespan?

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jivJaN said:

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Clordio said:
If one were to be a certain archetype, could that same person achieve another archetype in that same lifespan?

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Im not sure if i understand your question.
Maybe you can rephrase ?

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If I were to come into the world as the fool, is there a chance that I could progress to the world in this lifetime, or is death and rebirth necessary for that progression.

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consider this... you can do whatever you want, but will you succeed?
depends entirely on how much you put effort in to it...

but in this case, why rush?
you have plenty time experimenting, making choices... doing whatever you want to do... so even if one could progress through all "levels" in one life time... so many opportunities for learning(or whatever) would be lost(for the lack of better word)...

death and rebirth are not necessary, in my humble opinion... but i see that question no more different than "can i sleep now for 20yrs and then i will spend rest of my life awake?" perhaps one can... but it is close to pointless

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sirjeth said:
Bloodbath - The Ascension

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Now I'm not sure about this ...

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ivander said:

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sirjeth said:
Bloodbath - The Ascension

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Now I'm not sure about this ...

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MisterMuscaria said:
All the tarot cards from that particular set coorelate to a zodiac sign, for example, mine to XV.

As I understand the archetypes also coorelate to gods of various pantheons as well as positions in the tree of life itself(as has been mentioned before).

As I understand; to ascend is to be the flawless embodiement of that archetype (or as other traditions would call it; supersoul, christself, godhead).'
"The harvest" as in harvest of souls was always a notion that scared me after a profound psychedellic experience. I had believed I was witnessing it happen and this happened IMMEDIATLEY after ascenscion of true self into my earthly body.

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No one needs to be flawless...
Such a thing does not exist.
All it really takes is being slightly more oriented towards helping others.

You can be 49 % "EVIL"  (david wilcocks words) he can be a goofy mf sometimes..
Also.. the harvest is from each density to a higher one. Doesnt happen only once.
To be a self conscious being , that would  mean that at some point you were harvested from 2nd to 3rd density.
I would like to hear more about your experience if you feel like giving some more details..
I didnt quite get the last part

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jivJaN said:
Well.. this is my take on that situation.
Free will is a notion i give the most importance. Therefore influencing others  in any way would be the perpetuation of the cyclic nature of manipulation. No matter what my intentions actually are.
To lead by example .. yes .. but by demonstrating love and compassion for the fellow man.
You know .. some people have no idea whats going on.
And they would probably say the same for us
Its all a matter of perception and in the end tolerance plays a big role.
If we go around telling people they got it all wrong , we would be no different than the next bully out there.
I believe the change is occurring. And there aint a damn thing any of us can do about it , unless you got a ticket to another solar system
Soon enough people will start asking questions...
If they are directed our way... we might just have an answer. "Time" will tell .
This is not to say that values we believe in should not be defended even now.
I am very protective when it comes to children , animals and nature in general.
You should not see your self as being in a stalemate..
A fairly disharmonious environment such as this one on our planet .. can produce disharmony within yourself. And by giving in .. you do no good for the planet or its inhabitants. These natural catastrophes weve been having at an increasing rate is precisely because we are not in harmony with the planets vibration and the in-streaming energies from the galactic center.
I do agree it can be hard to find that spot of joy and peace within you , when the outside is pulling you back constantly..
This is where integrity kicks in..
I love you .. but i will not be manipulated. This might even be the biggest task..
Shaking off fear.. insecurity.. doubt..
I dont hope that people will follow my path.
We are all on our own path.
But it seems like were all starting to walk towards that shimmery light in the distance..
And im just so god damn excited about the times ahead.
I think its a real privilege to be here now..
People usually get depressed when they have nothing to look forward to..
But we have something to look forward to now.
Just stay positive
Sounds corny .. and overused.. but its true.
I feel like im going to a huge galactic rave.. im just working on my dance moves !

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I love your inspiring words. 

Just be mindful that practicing compassion and refraining from interference with free will are but one path among many.  All paths still lead to ascension; some with a motif of Power and some with a motif of Love.