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 neopet nub
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Registered: 11/29/08
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 Coir substrate questions 
#9582272 - 01/10/09 01:05 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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My friend has a few quarts of spawn and was wondering what to do about the low nitrogen levels of coir. At first he went to Starbucks to try and get used coffee grounds, but they laughed at the poor man and turned him away without the coffee.
He proposed to use WBS in the coir to boost the nitrogen. He is also going to try and go to a few more Starbucks to obtain coffee grounds.
What would a good ratio for substrate be? He was thinking:
80% Coir
18% WBS
2% Calci Sand (CaCO3)
or if grounds were found:
70% Coir
28% Coffee Grounds
2% Calci Sand (CaCO3)
Any help would be great!
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 blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are
Registered: 04/26/07
Posts: 5,473
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 Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: neopet nub]
#9582329 - 01/10/09 01:19 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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coir works great on it's own. 20% coffee is a good benchmark for coffee. ive had great results with using fresh coffee also.
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neopet nub
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: blood4blood]
#9582388 - 01/10/09 01:33 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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So you think that the CaCO3 is not necessary? I heard it makes the substrate more contam-resistant.
And do you think the WBS is a good idea to provide more nitrogen or would that harbor contams?
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Oatman2000
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: neopet nub]
#9582598 - 01/10/09 02:14 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't use coffee anymore.
WBS/COIR
Here is a pic of a MS from Sporeworks. Made to LC and injected into WBS and then spawned to straight coir. (Treasure Coast)
Straight coir works great
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 Spawning to COIR
 My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
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4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: Oatman2000]
#9582670 - 01/10/09 02:30 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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WTF is all this talk about nitrogen for? Mushrooms are not plants. You guys need to be careful about paying too much attention to what you read. Coir works fine on its own, or you can mix with coffee, manure, etc. It's all good. Don't add lime to substrates. Gypsum is great though and will be well worth your while to find.
RR
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HybridprX
Biodegrader of coir
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9582785 - 01/10/09 02:47 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've been toying with a recipe for coir, so far so good...
I spawned four liters of coir with 2 liters of corn cob, 1 liter of worm castings and half a filters worth of coffee grounds per two Styrofoam coolers, I spawned using 2liters of wbs, this was done only a few days ago and the substrates are about 75% colonized.
Corn cob is 100% cellulose, mycelium thrive off of substrates rich in cellulose, the worm castings them self contain trace amounts of gypsum plus nitrogen as well as many other beneficial minerals for mycelium, then the coffee adds the stimulant effect of caffeine and helps buffer the p.h of the worm castings which is 6.5 abit lower....I'll post results in a few days.
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Elixier
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
#9582798 - 01/10/09 02:48 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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How much gypsum do you add to a say, a brick of coir?
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blood4blood
Calmer Than You Are
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: Elixier]
#9582820 - 01/10/09 02:52 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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5% gypsum or so of your total substrate. also, isnt wbs your spawn? why are you asking to add it to boost nitrogen?
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shroomzey
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Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 904
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: HybridprX] 1
#9582887 - 01/10/09 03:02 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ok, does anyone really and truly know what exactly mycelium eats?
It has been very difficult for me to pin down what is truly needed in a substrate. Or even what is worth the effort.
Some old hands just say manure straw, or just coir is fine. And some members come in saying they add 5-6 + additives to their substrates.
Quote:
then the coffee adds the stimulant effect of caffeine
Does mycelium really metabolize caffeine?
All I really have to judge is some members posting pictures of their grows, both claiming to get great results. I'd love to do the testing myself, but without the time it's a little hard to.
I really wish there was a researched and tested publication about exactly what certain fungi eat. Anyone wanna bump in with their opinions/experiences?
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200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
 My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them. I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
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dan.23
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: shroomzey]
#9583111 - 01/10/09 03:32 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use a mix of coir and worm castings about the 75/25 mix works great for me!
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johnny_poke
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: Elixier]
#9583458 - 01/10/09 04:22 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Elixier said:
How much gypsum do you add to a say, a brick of coir?
When you guys mention gypsum are we talking about the slap-all-over-your-walls gypsum? Just regular old gypsum plaster right?
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archivist
5-HT
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Posts: 1,003
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: johnny_poke]
#9583660 - 01/10/09 04:53 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah. I ended up going to home depot and they didn't have the bagged horticultural stuff, so I ended up getting some drywall waste product for free. I put it in a bag, bang it a bunch of times with a hammer, and get all this powdered gypsum at the bottom of the bag.
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Boomers420
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: archivist]
#9583733 - 01/10/09 05:01 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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I use regular old Plaster of Paris. Found at any home depot or lowes
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just me
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: Elixier]
#9584171 - 01/10/09 05:53 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Elixier said:
How much gypsum do you add to a say, a brick of coir?
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neopet nub
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: Oatman2000]
#9584720 - 01/10/09 07:24 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Oatman2000 said:
I don't use coffee anymore.
WBS/COIR
Here is a pic of a MS from Sporeworks. Made to LC and injected into WBS and then spawned to straight coir. (Treasure Coast)
Straight coir works great
Yes, my friend has seen the wonders of straight coir but thought that such results were only possible in the first flush. If he is wrong then please state so, since he wishes to pull a few flushes after all of his hard work.
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halffoot
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: neopet nub]
#9587478 - 01/11/09 04:14 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Stupid question possibly, but when you say something like '20% coffee grounds' in a bulk substrate mix, do you mean by weight?
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just me
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: halffoot]
#9587494 - 01/11/09 04:18 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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weight or volume.
bolume' is probably easier to get right with all the jars we have
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"The Downfall of Mankind; is Believing He Has Limitations."
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neopet nub
Stranger
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: just me]
#9588330 - 01/11/09 11:06 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Volume is how I measure everything... It would be so hard to weigh everything out!
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halffoot
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: just me]
#9600662 - 01/13/09 12:45 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
just me said:
weight or volume.
bolume' is probably easier to get right with all the jars we have
Thanks, thats kind of what i figured since everyone always talks about quarts in relation to spawn, but the only units i ever hear to refer to coir are 'bricks' which aren't really either, lol.
So are all coir bricks the same size? If so, approximately how much coffee per brick?
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shroomzey
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: halffoot]
#9601570 - 01/13/09 03:45 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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The size of the coir brick, and how much it will expand to depends on the brand. Really what you want to do is get a brick, put it in a 5 gallon bucket, and add around a gallon of water. Come back 30 minutes later and the brick will have expanded. Most of the time you still have to use your hands to mix it up throughly so it all has the same consistency and hydration. From there you can measure how many quarts you're working with (or liters) and then add your additives by ratio.
Oh and the Starbucks thing, just keep going til you find one that will give you their used coffee grounds. That sucks that they laughed at your friend. They usually have the name of the program called: "Grounds For Gardens". Walk in, say,"Hey, I was wondering if I could use some of your used coffee grounds for my (or my friends) vegetable garden." If they say no, go to the next one til they do.
This is how I prepare coir:
(This is really just an adaptation of another popular coir prep method used here on the boards, I forget who's)
75 coir / 15 vermiculite / 10 coffee
Get two, 5 gallon buckets. Put a gallon of water in a pot on the burner. Drop in how much gypsum you want in the bucket. Once it reaches 110 degree's, pour it into the bucket mix it up a tad, then drop the brick in. After 30 minutes open it up and use some heat resistant rubber gloves to mix up the coir so it is consistent and break up any chunks that haven't expanded yet. Then add in how much coffee you want. I add in some vermiculite. You really don't need much more than that, straight coir by itself is probably fine without coffee. This of the used grounds as kind of a filler, since coir is semi expensive... you can pick up one brick and if you want more substrate just toss in a bit more grounds.
Please don't take my word for this though, I'm just starting to get into agar work and until I have a proven isolate that I can test and do comparisons with, all the things I've been doing have been from the experience of others.
Anywho, once you have your substrate mix all mixed up. Make sure you get a paint strainer from the hardware store thats used for a 5 gallon bucket. Have that placed in your second bucket. Then put all your mixed substrate into that, tie it off with a wire tie or rubber band. (While you're doing all this you can have 2.5 to 3 gallons of water getting up to 170 degrees on the stove) Then right when it hits that temp, pour that steaming stuff into the bucket. And close it up.
Put a couple things under the lid to push the bag down so it stays submerged. If you can, drill a hole in the top of the plastic bucket lid so you can drop in a meat thermometer to watch the temp. It'll usually be around 150's and stay around there for a couple hours. After an hour ana-half or so (while sitting in a corner with a blanket over it) you pull out your bag, set it in your tub. And squeeze it a big, and let it drain/ cool for a good 6-8 hours. Soon as it's cool, spawn.
Lemme see if I can find that link, as it is a pictorial.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668568/an/0/page/0
The reason I heat the water that expands the coir, is so that when you pasteurize(add in that 170 degree water) it doesn't have to drop temperature a huge amount as if it was all room temperature. This ensures the temp drop isn't huge and you retain that heat for that hour ana half.
Second, I like to prepare my WBS with that water that is left over from the pasteurization. When you pull that bag of soaked substrate out there will be this real dark water left over in the bucket. I pour that stuff (minus the organic matter that settles on the bottom) back into a big pot, and then reheat it to use for my 24 WBS soak using this tek:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5668096/an/0/page/0
Again, my success is not proven really. I'm sure I have a lot of things to improve upon. As this is still a new hobby for me. But that is the advice I can give from my limited experience. Best of luck.
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200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them. I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.
Edited by shroomzey (01/13/09 03:51 PM)
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Oatman2000
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Re: Coir substrate questions [Re: shroomzey]
#9603094 - 01/13/09 08:22 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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as for the only one flush thing....
I pull 2 good flushes out of my substrates, and then toss them for mother nature to deal with.
Sometimes i'll place them out in another room to dry out on their own. Any stragglers that just "happen" to pull through without humidity get treated like the gods they are. 
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Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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