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 sleepy
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 can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? 
#9052248 - 10/09/08 08:15 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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if you can get elecricity and heat from hydrogen, why couldn't someone set up a solar panel which does hydrolysis to make the hydrogen, and there ya have it, your house is off the grid?
Edited by sleepy (10/09/08 08:15 AM)
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 Seuss
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9052293 - 10/09/08 08:37 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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> if you can get elecricity and heat from hydrogen
When you burn hydrogen and oxygen, you can get electricity (and water) out. This is how the space shuttle produced electricity while in orbit.
> why couldn't someone set up a solar panel which does hydrolysis to make the hydrogen, and there ya have it, your house is off the grid?
Efficiency and cost.
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sleepy
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9052370 - 10/09/08 09:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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one panel costing 2000 would produce enough hydrogen to power a whole house, no?
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DieCommie
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9053377 - 10/09/08 02:28 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your house uses electricity, not hydrogen. Why would you take a solar panel -> get electricity -> turn that into hydrogen -> turn back into electricity; thats inefficent. It would be better to just use the electricity the panal gives you and not fuck with hydrogen at all right?
You can do that, but as Seuss said, its extremely expensive and takes alot of space (think more expensive than you house and more space than you plot probably)
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sleepy
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: DieCommie]
#9053624 - 10/09/08 03:23 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Your house uses electricity, not hydrogen. Why would you take a solar panel -> get electricity -> turn that into hydrogen -> turn back into electricity; thats inefficent. It would be better to just use the electricity the panal gives you and not fuck with hydrogen at all right?
its not inefficient, if it was, why do they use it on the space shuttle?
a solar panel can produce enough electricity to get hydrolysis going to produce hydrogen, which is an extremely powerful source of energy. i'm not neccessarily talking about turning the hydrogen into electricty, but burning it to heat water, as well as making electricity. the question is, how much hydrogen can you get from one solar cell? the hardware wouldn't be any bigger than a regular oil burning furnace
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sleepy
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9053639 - 10/09/08 03:25 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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i dont see why this costs alot. youjust need a solar panel, a hydrolysis machine (can be homemade for cheap), then a tank to hold the hydrogen/oxygen, and then a boiler where you burn the h2/02 underneath a copper pipe
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DieCommie
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9053646 - 10/09/08 03:26 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is inefficient. Every time you turn one form of energy into another you lose some. Turning your electricity from the panel into hydrogen causes you to lose some. If you just use the electricity straight from the panel you will have more energy.
Better to heat your water with that electricity rather than turn it into hydrogen and then heat the water.
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DieCommie
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9053655 - 10/09/08 03:29 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sleepy said:
i dont see why this costs alot. youjust need a solar panel, a hydrolysis machine (can be homemade for cheap), then a tank to hold the hydrogen/oxygen, and then a boiler where you burn the h2/02 underneath a copper pipe
Have you run any numbers at all? What kind of wattage are you looking to pull?
There is no way you are doing this with less than an acre of land and tens of thousands of dollars (at least). I wish it were cheap and easy, but it is not.
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Minstrel
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9054019 - 10/09/08 04:25 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
sleepy said:
if you can get elecricity and heat from hydrogen, why couldn't someone set up a solar panel which does hydrolysis to make the hydrogen, and there ya have it, your house is off the grid?
A word on nomenclature. The solar panel would provide current for 'electrolysis' (meaning to cleave with electricity). 'Hydrolysis' is a chemical reaction where water acts to cleave a different molecule. The two refer to different reactions and aren't interchangeable.
If your goal is to get heat energy from the sun, there are specialized solar panels which use a process fluid to directly gather the heat by being irradiated by the sun. This hot process fluid is then used to heat home water so as to reduce the heat-duty on your hot water heater.
The process of going from Sun -> electricity -> hydrogen -> heat will result in much more energy loss due to entropy.
Edited by Minstrel (10/09/08 04:32 PM)
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LuNaTiX
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9054194 - 10/09/08 05:01 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Use salt water and radiowaves!
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Seuss
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9054239 - 10/09/08 05:14 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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> why do they use it on the space shuttle?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. They take up bottled oxygen and bottled hydrogen. Combining the two, they get water and electricity out. They can use the water created for drinking, cooking, etc. They do not take up water, break it apart with solar, then recombine it.
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zouden
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: Seuss]
#9054373 - 10/09/08 05:48 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do they recombine it by combustion or through a fuel cell? Surely it's the latter.
Quote:
LuNaTiX said:
Use salt water and radiowaves!
I'm pretty sure that doesn't work.
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sleepy
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: zouden]
#9054408 - 10/09/08 05:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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aren't they now putting solar cells ontop of cars to make hydrogen and then running the cars on hydrogen? this would just be larger version for the home
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zouden
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9054483 - 10/09/08 06:14 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, they aren't doing that. Only the most advanced ultra-lightweight single-seater experimental cars are solar powered. If you hear about hydrogen-powered cars, they are talking about producing the hydrogen somewhere else then filling a tank in the car.
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ToiletDuk
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9054578 - 10/09/08 06:38 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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It takes a lot more energy to split water into oxygen and hydrogen than burning the hydrogen releases, so your net energy gain is negative.
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zouden
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: ToiletDuk]
#9054596 - 10/09/08 06:42 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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That's right, and since they can barely power a car directly with solar panels, going through the conversion process to hydrogen and back again is currently impossible.
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: zouden]
#9057877 - 10/10/08 11:47 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, in high school I was talking with my drafting teacher about 'why don't they just power cars with a closed hydrogen power cell/ electrolysis engine'. Not until now did I understand the concept of energy loss he was trying to convey.
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axis_bal
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9062653 - 10/11/08 01:07 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think the best description I have heard is that hydrogen can be considered to be like a battery. You put energy in to create hydrogen then later you get energy out of the hydrogen. This makes it portable. The portability is why it is used in cars and the space shuttle. It is not 100% efficient so you would only use it if you needed the portability.
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sleepy
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9062794 - 10/11/08 01:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok now, hear me out, but what if you made like a 5000 gallon tank of water and hooked the electrodes of the electrolysis machine to a lightning rod, and use the lightning to turn it all into hydrogen? would that work?
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trendal
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Re: can you create electricity from pure hydrogen? what about heat? [Re: sleepy]
#9062986 - 10/11/08 02:44 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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You wouldn't be able to get lightning to hit your lightning rod with sufficient frequency to make very much hydrogen a good percentage of the time (and that's IF you could have this setup last more than one strike).
Using lightning for energy, while looking good at first, always ends up being impracticable due to the very sporadic and random nature of lightning strikes.
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