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GeoMcCheeseburgers
one-eyed willie


Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 39,543
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A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs.
#8924462 - 09/13/08 06:39 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Voters who hoped that Barack Obama's call for "change" would include revamping U.S. drug policy are finding themselves with reasons to be skeptical.
First there was Obama's flip-flop-flip-flop on the subject of decriminalizing marijuana. Speaking at Northwestern University in January 2004, Obama called America's so-called "war on drugs" an "utter failure," and recommended, "(W)e need to rethink and decriminalize our (nation's) marijuana laws." (Obama's candid remarks, though out of step politically, echo public sentiment. Nearly 3 out of 4 Americans endorsed the policy in a 2002 CNN/Time Magazine poll, and 12 state legislatures have already enacted versions of pot decriminalization -- replacing criminal penalties with fine-only sanctions.)
Nevertheless, Obama reversed his pro-pot position during a televised November 2007 MSNBC debate, raising his hand to indicate his opposition to the policy. Following the debate, a spokesman for Obama claimed that the candidate had misunderstood the moderator's question and declared that Obama had, in fact, "always" supported decriminalization. ( ) Hours later, however, when presented with video footage of Obama's 2004 statements, the campaign reversed course once again, stating to the Washington Times that the Democratic nominee opposed decriminalizing weed. ( )
Since being elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Obama has voiced almost no criticism regarding America's punitive drug policies (despite his previous "utter failure" evaluation). As senator, Obama has championed popular anti-drug legislation like the "Combat Meth Act" and has lobbied in favor of increased funding for drug courts and U.S. drug interdiction efforts south of the border.
Nevertheless, many progressives believe -- perhaps rightly -- that Obama's prior admissions of illicit drug use (which the candidate now describes, without further elaboration, as a "mistake"), coupled with his apparent nonideological, holistic approach to public policy, indicates a willingness to move American drug policy away from the moralist, "do drugs, do time" attitudes associated with the Bush administration. If so, then the sudden pairing with Democrat drug war hawk Joe Biden becomes that much more distressing.
During his 35 years in Congress, political observers note that no Democrat has sponsored "more damaging drug war legislation" than Joe Biden. Biden led the charge in the Senate for passage of the 1986 Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which -- among its numerous notorious provisions -- re-established mandatory minimum sentencing for drug crimes, expanded the use of federal asset forfeiture laws, and established the racially biased 100-to-1 sentencing disparity for the possession of crack versus powder cocaine. (During the mid-'80s, it was hardly unusual for "liberals" such as Biden to endorse punitive drug policies, which at the time enjoyed virtually unanimous support from Congress.) Biden recently offered a mea culpa regarding his former support for the disproportionate sentencing provision, rationalizing, "Our intentions were good, but much of our information was bad."
Biden was also a key architect of the 1988 Anti-Drug Abuse Act, which enacted mandatory sentences for minor crack cocaine possession (five years in prison for possession of more than 5 grams), redefined low-level drug mules as drug "conspirators" (allowing these defendants to face the same penalties as drug kingpins), instituted random workplace drug testing programs for public employees, and established the multibillion-dollar anti-drug propaganda wing of the White House known as the Office of National Drug Control Policy (the federal agency responsible for creating the television ads that claimed that pot smoking sponsors international terrorism -- or at least makes you pregnant). The executive director of the ONDCP, dubbed by Biden as America's "drug czar," was eventually elevated in 1993 to that of a presidential Cabinet position -- arguably the only U.S. Cabinet position that, by law, is mandated to lie to the American public
More than three decades in Congress have done little to quench Biden's drug war lust. In 2001, Delaware's senior senator grilled then drug czar appointee -- now acting drug czar lunatic -- John Walters for several hours over concerns that he might not be tough enough to spearhead America's drug war. Biden also sponsored federal anti-paraphernalia legislation forbidding the interstate sale of glass pipes, bongs and rolling papers. (In 2003, Hollywood actor and comedian Tommy Chong was sentenced to nine months in federal prison for violating the statute. Nevertheless, in an August interview on the "Dr. Drew" syndicated radio show, Chong admitted that he supports the Obama-Biden ticket -- a decision that, if nothing else, illustrates the view among many reformers that regardless of how bad the Dems might be on the drug issue, a McCain-Palin administration would undoubtedly be worse.)
More recently, Biden authored the so-called RAVE Act (aka the Illicit Drug Anti-Proliferation Act) -- clandestinely enacted into law in 2003 as a rider to federal "Amber Alert" legislation -- which permits federal law enforcement to prosecute business owners and event organizers who hold concerts where illicit drug use takes place. The congressman was also instrumental in the passage of the domestic COPS program, which sought to add some 100,000 new law enforcement officers to the state and federal payrolls, as well as expend funding for the Department of Justice, the FBI and the DEA.
Biden is also a staunch supporter of U.S. anti-drug efforts abroad, such as Plan Columbia and Plan Afghanistan, and has even espoused for the use of mycoherbicides such as Fusarium oxysporum -- a genetically engineered fungal plant killer -- in illicit crop eradication efforts. (Fortunately for the planet, more rational minds -- at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, of all places -- nixed the idea, deciding that the deliberate spread of such toxic pathogens would be unsafe for the environment.)
In recent months, Biden has called for a nationwide smoking ban, demanded stricter penalties for those who violate "drug free school zone" laws, and spoken out against efforts to lower the national drinking age to 18. (On the flip side, Biden -- like his running mate -- has expressed verbal support for ending the federal prosecution of state-authorized medical marijuana patients and providers, though both candidates continue to express skepticism regarding the drug's therapeutic use.) Finally, this past July, Biden introduced one of the more laughable pieces of anti-drug legislation in congressional history: Senate Bill 3351, which seeks to crack down on drug traffickers who captain unregistered submarines in international waters. Fortunately, unlike many of his previous efforts, SB3351 lacks the ability to put tens of thousands of Americans -- particularly those of color -- in prison.
So should progressives cite Obama's tapping of Biden as reason to abandon all hope for drug law reform? Not necessarily, though the notable absence of the subject at the Democratic National Convention will likely give some folks -- this author included -- yet another reason to be cynical.
Bottom line: No administration since the Carter administration has proactively taken steps to liberalize federal drug penalties, and there's little indication that Obama and Biden will possess either the desire or the political will to buck this long-running trend.
http://www.alternet.org/election08/97810/obama%27s_biden_pick_signals_%27more_of_the_same%27_stupid_drug_policies/?page=2
I've said it before and I'll say it again... Deadheads for Obama, LOL.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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nonwo
truth seeker



Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1,431
Loc: southern usa
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers]
#8924466 - 09/13/08 06:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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yep
-------------------- yellow red black and white cometogether as humans and fallow the path the creater intended
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers]
#8924550 - 09/13/08 06:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's not as if a vote for McCain is a vote for the legalization of drugs or anything.
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pinkfloydms
!!!!!


Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: Redstorm]
#8924608 - 09/13/08 07:08 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hasn't this already bee posted before and then moved to the drug reform policy?
-------------------- Muppet Said:
so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!
www.panicstream.com
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GeoMcCheeseburgers
one-eyed willie


Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 39,543
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: Redstorm]
#8924620 - 09/13/08 07:10 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: It's not as if a vote for McCain is a vote for the legalization of drugs or anything.
No it's not but McCain doesn't flip flop around trying to create the illusion that it is.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers]
#8924628 - 09/13/08 07:11 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Definitely. Unfortunately, neither of these jokers have individual rights of US citizens held dearly.
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GeoMcCheeseburgers
one-eyed willie


Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 39,543
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: pinkfloydms]
#8924635 - 09/13/08 07:12 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pinkfloydms said: Hasn't this already bee posted before and then moved to the drug reform policy?
If it has been posted before I sincerely apologize. This was my first time reading it and thought it was worthy of posting to give people some idea of what Obama and Biden's view on drug policy is like.
-------------------- m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
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KingOftheThing
the cool fool



Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 27,385
Loc: axe murderer is back
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers]
#8925160 - 09/13/08 09:06 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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what is a vote for mccain palin?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: GeoMcCheeseburgers]
#8925198 - 09/13/08 09:13 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
matt said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: It's not as if a vote for McCain is a vote for the legalization of drugs or anything.
No it's not but McCain doesn't flip flop around trying to create the illusion that it is.
let's call them lies and just say that obama cant keep his straight
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: KingOftheThing]
#8925202 - 09/13/08 09:14 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: what is a vote for mccain palin?
a death sentence, just like a vote for obama
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,568
Loc: Americas
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: KingOftheThing]
#8925212 - 09/13/08 09:16 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingOftheThing said: what is a vote for mccain palin?
What is the relevance?
Another example of the bullshit that is keeping people dissatisfied with government. "I don't like them but I'll vote for them anyways.... cuz I'm sure my opinion is very important to them given that I'll vote for them no matter what bullshit they propose.... Getting taken for granted is a great political strategy"
Vote for who you want to win. I'm voting libertarian.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: johnm214]
#8925216 - 09/13/08 09:18 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: I'm voting libertarian.
while I dont agree with the libertarian party, I agree with your decision
I'm tired of evil in the oval office
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,568
Loc: Americas
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8925356 - 09/13/08 09:56 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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So besides your whinning about what they have on their main page, vague crap that should be changed, what don't you like about the libertarians?
The problem most people have is the lack of social policies. But if you vote for libertarians and they influence the elections in the future, or even if they win every seat, it wouldn't matter. Your state could still be socialist, and then buisness and folks would have some choice if they wanted to live in a free healthcare, can't be fired, free foodstamp state or if they want to live in a state without such programs.
This would keep the states competitive, as they'd loose buisness and workers if their taxes are too high or their bloated budgets are corupt.
Either way, their is no reason why the states can't manage socialized healthcare or whateve the people want- at least they will be taking money from a smaller geographic area and be forced to send the money in that area- unlike now where cities like NY get screwed on taxes and the feds spend their money somewhere else... the folks end up seeing hteir taxes leave to the feds and never come back at all.
But thanks for the support. I don't support the green party, but at least the talk somewhat straight. If people would vote for the folks they support we wouldn't have these issues of the lesser evil bullshit or "vote for who will win" fallacy, or the dumb idea that you need to win elections to influence them and the politicians running.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: johnm214]
#8925786 - 09/13/08 11:26 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: So besides your whinning about what they have on their main page, vague crap that should be changed, what don't you like about the libertarians?
double dealing politics, they want to give citizenship to illegals, folks that have committed fraud to remain in this country and work many of the places they've worked while claiming to take a firm stance against fraud, they wish to eliminate laws that impede qualified people from getting work, this would include unskilled labor but open the immigration doors to provide unskilled labor thus impeding many citizens from obtaining jobs. how exactly do you secure the border and still open them to free immigration, how will it benefit our economy of the money is leaving the country?
most of their ideals I do support, the immigration issue is probably the one I like the least, to me it's pandering to one group to gain more votes, the same thing everyone else is doing
Quote:
The problem most people have is the lack of social policies.
that's one of the things that appeals to me, I've been a firm believer in hard work to support yourself and family or just die off and stop burdening society
too lazy to look for a job, just seeking a hand out? come on in and we'll put you to work, we have trash, floors and toilets all the work the trustees do can be handled by welfare seekers our roadways could remain clean, in exchange you get a days pay
Quote:
Either way, their is no reason why the states can't manage socialized healthcare or whateve the people want- at least they will be taking money from a smaller geographic area and be forced to send the money in that area-
while it sounds good what happens with the influx of illegals and freeloaders that are burdening the system already, if my state has pay as you go health care and the next one over has socialized medicine, what stops people from bankrupting the coffers of the hospitals, of course the benefit is that it's still left up to the states, not forced upon us by the feds
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,568
Loc: Americas
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8926255 - 09/14/08 01:11 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Either way, their is no reason why the states can't manage socialized healthcare or whateve the people want- at least they will be taking money from a smaller geographic area and be forced to send the money in that area-
while it sounds good what happens with the influx of illegals and freeloaders that are burdening the system already, if my state has pay as you go health care and the next one over has socialized medicine, what stops people from bankrupting the coffers of the hospitals, of course the benefit is that it's still left up to the states, not forced upon us by the feds
What does it matter? If the state wants to pay for their care then they will incure financial burdens that the citezins can elect to discontinue or move out of that state. If the state wants to mandate hospitals treat those folks, something I think is unconstitutional, then the hospitals can leave the state- the citezins will not have good health care, and eventually a choice will e made if they want to have hospitals at all, besides publicly funded ones that are crouded and crappy.
Mind you that the only reason their is a nationwide mandate for hospitals to treat people is that all those with an emergency room must provide stabilizing treatment to anyone that walks in. The libertarians would not continue such a law that tells private parties they must treat people who don't pay them.
The fact is that while stabilizing treatment sounds like no big deal, someone coming in with stomach pain can demand CT scans and all manner of tests and workups to find they ate a week old burrito. The hosptial that doesn't correctly diagnose the person can be sued. The hosptial that refuses the person will be fined or sued by the feds
The difference in cost in most cases of an ER visit between diagnosis and stabilization vs full treatment is negligible, since all ER's are made to do is to stop you from dieing anyways. ER's do stabilize you- that's it.
Mind you someone that comes in with a gunshot wound can demand a month of critical care and surgery despite having no money. The hospital cannot discriminate against me, if I have the money to pay for treatment, vs the guy who just robbed a bank and was shot.
Whether or not this is a good idea, it is an unfunded mandate from the feds that would not be continued by the libertarians. The states would be free to continue this program, pay for the folks care, pay for citizens care only, or discontinue it entirely and let charity hospitals do whatever they like.
s
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pinkfloydms
!!!!!


Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: johnm214]
#8926309 - 09/14/08 01:22 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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So basically what your saying is you don't give a shit about anyone but yourself?
-------------------- Muppet Said:
so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!
www.panicstream.com
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: johnm214]
#8926325 - 09/14/08 01:24 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: someone coming in with stomach pain can demand CT scans and all manner of tests and workups to find they ate a week old burrito.
funny, I went into a hospital with stomach pains, I requested 4 simple, cheap tests, instead they insisted on doing an xray and an ekg, after telling me there's noting they can find, me requesting my tests again and them refusing, they handed me a pill and said 'this will help'... help what?
were they expecting to find that I'd accidentally swallowed a matchbox car on the Xray, was the EKG going to tell them I was having a heart attack in my spleen? My insurance company contested payment because they were running unnecessary tests I went elsewhere to get the tests run that I wanted
I wonder why the cost of health care is getting up there...
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 168,346
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: pinkfloydms]
#8926339 - 09/14/08 01:25 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
pinkfloydms said: So basically what your saying is you don't give a shit about anyone but yourself?
I know I'm saying that, well me and those I care about, if I decide to help someone it should be someone of my choosing, not someone that the government says I have to help
-------------------- there are 923 words in the english language that do not follow the "I before E"
rule, there are 44 words in the english language that follow the rule. this is
the shit our education funding is paying for and these liberals want more money
for education to keep making students stupid
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,568
Loc: Americas
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: pinkfloydms]
#8926375 - 09/14/08 01:31 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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irrelevant
if you have any critiques of my position feel free to state them. Your inuendo seems to have nothing to do with what I stated.
If you want to establish how the policies above are selfish go ahead.
For the record I'm one of those uninsured folks that is hurt by the current system. As someone that would like to be able to pay for my healthcare services without declaring bandkruptcy I guess I am selfish, which is not a bad thing at all, but I also feel my proposals would benefit other folks that are impoverished, have no insurance, and would like affordable healthcare.
You think we'd see a doctor bill 3, 000+ for a colonoscopy only to get paid a full consideration of 800 by an insurance company in a free market?
I can't afford 3,000 dollars, and I don't care to have to pay to be in the insured club just so I can have the benifit of paying a non-inflated rate.
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pinkfloydms
!!!!!


Registered: 05/27/04
Posts: 4,470
Loc: City of Dreams
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Re: A vote for Obama / Biden is a vote for the war on drugs. [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8926391 - 09/14/08 01:34 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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So you would understand if someone you loved was hurt, went to the hospital and was turned away, and then died.
I think the malpractice suits should definitely stop. That's bullshit when someone tries to help you and then gets sued for it. It's the medical practice for the most part that is to blame. There is no reason for them to charge out the ass like they do to get help. Maybe that starts back at the cost of med school though and the cost of meds in general. Who knows where it starts but something should be done.
If the doctors didn't grossly overcharge then insurance rates would definitely drop and then we wouldn't have to worry about footing the bill for so many people.
My views anyway.
-------------------- Muppet Said:
so yeah:
- 'sex' five times
- once with a man
- once with a cadaver
- and thrice with actual women(all of which were prostitutes)
Best story ever!
www.panicstream.com
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