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 Arden
לנשום
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7,648
Loc: Α & Ω 
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 Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt 
#8907098 - 09/10/08 03:33 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt
CERN, Switzerland (CNN) -- Scientists Wednesday applauded as one of t
he most ambitious experiments ever conceived got successfully underway, with protons being fired around a 27-kilometer (17-mile) tunnel deep beneath the border of France and Switzerland in an attempt to unlock the secrets of the universe.
Scientists applaud during the switch on operation of the Large Hadron Collider.
The Large Hadron Collider -- a $9 billion particle accelerator designed to simulate conditions of the Big Bang that created the physical Universe -- was switched on at 0732 GMT to cheers and applause from experts gathered to witness the event.
While observers were left nonplussed by the anticlimactic flashing dots on a TV screen that signalled the machine's successful test run, among teams of scientists involved around the world there were jubilant celebrations and popping champagne corks.
In the coming months, the collider is expected to begin smashing particles into each other by sending two beams of protons around the tunnel in opposite directions.
Skeptics, who claim that the experiment could lead to the creation of a black hole capable of swallowing the planet, failed in a legal bid to halt the project at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research.
Others have branded it a colossal waste of cash, draining resources from its multinational collaborators that could have been spent on scientific research with more tangible benefits to mankind.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy hailed the project as a major achievement for Europe.
"The repercussions of this scientific investment without precedent in the history of humanity will be essential not only for the intimate knowledge of our universe, but also for the direct applications in fields as varied as intensive calculation or even medicine," he said. Video Watch as Big Bang experiment gets underway »
The collider will operate at higher energies and intensities in the next year, potentially generating enough data to make a discovery by 2009, experts say.
They say the experiment has the potential to confirm theories that physicists have been working on for decades including the possible existence of extra dimensions. They also hope to find a theoretical particle called the Higgs boson -- sometimes referred to as the "God particle," which has never been detected, but would help explain why matter has mass.
The collider will recreate the conditions of less than a millionth of a second after the Big Bang, when there was a hot "soup" of tiny particles called quarks and gluons, to look at how the universe evolved, said John Harris, U.S. coordinator for ALICE, a huge detector specialized to analyze that question.
Since this is exploratory science, the collider may uncover surprises that contradict prevailing theories, but which are just as interesting, said Joseph Lykken, theoretical physicist at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory.
"When Columbus sails west, he thought he was going to find something. He didn't find what he thought he was going to find, but he did find something interesting," said Lykken, who works on the Compact Muon Solenoid, one of six experiments inside the collider complex.
Why should the layperson care about this particular exploration? Years ago, when electrons were first identified, no one knew what they were good for, but they have since transformed our entire economy, said Howard Gordon, deputy research program manager for the collider's ATLAS experiment.
"The transformative effect of this research will be to understand the world we live in much better," said Gordon, at Brookhaven National Laboratory. "It's important for just who we are, what we are."
Fears have emerged that the collider could produce black holes that could suck up anything around them -- including the whole Earth. Such fears prompted legal actions in the U.S. and Europe to halt the operation of the Large Hadron Collider, alleging safety concerns regarding black holes and other phenomena that could theoretically emerge.
Although physicists acknowledge that the collider could, in theory, create small black holes, they say they do not pose any risk. A study released Friday by CERN scientists explains that any black hole created would be tiny, and would not have enough energy to stick around very long before dissolving. Five collider collaborators who did not pen the report independently told CNN there would be no danger from potential black holes.
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John Huth, who works on the collider's ATLAS experiment, called such fears "baloney" in a recent interview, and noted that in normal physics, even if the black hole were stable, it could just pass through the Earth without being detected or without interacting at all.
"The gravitational force is so weak that you'd have to wait many, many, many, many, many lifetimes of the universe before one of these things could [get] big enough to even get close to being a problem," said Huth, professor of physics at Harvard University.
LINK: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/09/10/lhc.collider/index.html
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DieCommie
El Guapo
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Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Arden]
#8907905 - 09/10/08 06:09 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok
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 PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
 
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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 Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#8908352 - 09/10/08 07:59 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read yesterday that they had originally called it the "Goddamn Particle" because -
they had not found it yet, but changed it to "God Particle" for more acceptance..... 
>^;;^<
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I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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iateshaggy
i haxor 360s
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8908668 - 09/10/08 08:54 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
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 Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: iateshaggy]
#8908804 - 09/10/08 09:22 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Instant classic.....!
>^;;^<
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I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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watchoutnow
mind'sonrecord/itsbeingviewed
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: iateshaggy]
#8910294 - 09/11/08 02:05 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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hilarious!!!
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I quit. Touch it.
"My views ain't changed to live humane wait" -Eminem
"Ya'll make me too rounded and I'm addicted, WTF I'm drunk. Wtf I'm high. Wtf I'm... Not sober... Sober block." -me crazily self.
"From that what, knowledge of self - determination!" -Blackstar
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Ever since I got braces shit gets stuck in my teeth.
Make me *** bitch!
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arbalest
wut kent?
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: iateshaggy]
#8910919 - 09/11/08 06:46 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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skin_
d^_^b
Registered: 03/08/08
Posts: 2,552
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: iateshaggy]
#8911059 - 09/11/08 08:20 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
iateshaggy said:
http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
Ahahaha, that's great.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: skin_]
#8914647 - 09/11/08 09:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Discuss Politics
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shroomzey
Humble Student
Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 904
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Ferris]
#8954303 - 09/19/08 01:12 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Skeptics, who claim that the experiment could lead to the creation of a black hole capable of swallowing the planet, failed in a legal bid to halt the project at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research."
Hmmm... maybe those black-holes out there were other worlds doing exactly what were doing now? LOL?
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200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were.
 My Glovebox
Find a respected member of the community and study them. I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more.
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Annom
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Arden]
#8958564 - 09/20/08 01:42 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Incident in LHC sector 34
Geneva, 20 September 2008. During commissioning (without beam) of the final LHC sector (sector 34) at high current for operation at 5 TeV, an incident occurred at mid-day on Friday 19 September resulting in a large helium leak into the tunnel. Preliminary investigations indicate that the most likely cause of the problem was a faulty electrical connection between two magnets, which probably melted at high current leading to mechanical failure. CERN ’s strict safety regulations ensured that at no time was there any risk to people.
A full investigation is underway, but it is already clear that the sector will have to be warmed up for repairs to take place. This implies a minimum of two months down time for LHC operation. For the same fault, not uncommon in a normally conducting machine, the repair time would be a matter of days.
Further details will be made available as soon as they are known.
http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2008/PR09.08E.html
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Annom]
#8958586 - 09/20/08 01:49 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Damn, that sounds worse than the original impression that I got.
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Discuss Politics
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CokedUpHobit64
Registered: 10/01/07
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Ferris]
#8962277 - 09/21/08 10:58 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Just when the waiting is over, more waiting. Sucks.
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So good to see you, I've missed you so much.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: CokedUpHobit64]
#8962448 - 09/21/08 11:34 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I bet some silly Swiss maintenence worker spilled hot chocolate on the magnet.
Or tea, or whatever they drink in SwissLand.
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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway
If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy
He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Plasmid
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: shroomzey]
#8963435 - 09/21/08 02:53 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomzey said:
Hmmm... maybe those black-holes out there were other worlds doing exactly what were doing now? LOL?
My sister helps edit and write for a monthly news magazine and one of her jobs is to check facts. Being the scientist in the immediate family, she asks me her science questions. One of them was along the lines of, "Could the LHC actually blow the world up? Is it possible?"
I found it pretty funny when I told her that nobody would really know until the LHC was tested, but that if we really thought the universe would blow up, that probably nobody would run the LHC.
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deimya
tofu and monocle
Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Madtowntripper]
#8964452 - 09/21/08 06:45 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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In Zürich they drink coffee, cigarette and tea. I don't know about Geneva 
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durian_2008
cornucopian eating an elephant
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: deimya]
#8965037 - 09/21/08 09:12 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Have you ever noticed how religious fundamentalists are portrayed by that Jodie Foster movie, "Contact?"
On the net, real-life people are getting painted with the same brush, for pointing out the danger inherent to monkeying with the "glue of the universe."
Are any of you metaphysical types aware of themes, including either a rising or descending spiral, and a perpendicular ray, pointing either upward or downwards?
To me, this reminisces of monopoles, flywheels, and theosophy.
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Enphenitie
Psychonaut in Training
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: durian_2008]
#11452727 - 11/14/09 11:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Higgs Boson!
I thought really hard to recall that.
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Adamist
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Posts: 9,855
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: durian_2008]
#11483531 - 11/19/09 04:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Have you ever noticed how religious fundamentalists are portrayed by that Jodie Foster movie, "Contact?"
On the net, real-life people are getting painted with the same brush, for pointing out the danger inherent to monkeying with the "glue of the universe."
Are any of you metaphysical types aware of themes, including either a rising or descending spiral, and a perpendicular ray, pointing either upward or downwards?
To me, this reminisces of monopoles, flywheels, and theosophy.
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 { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
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Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Arden]
#11483547 - 11/19/09 04:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt
"The gravitational force is so weak that you'd have to wait many, many, many, many, many lifetimes of the universe before one of these things could [get] big enough to even get close to being a problem," said Huth, professor of physics at Harvard University.
That'd be pretty ironic if we cause a galactic disaster 10 trillion years from now and all these black holes start appearing from nowhere swallowing up the galactic federation, and eveyones like "WTF where are these black holes coming from??!"
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Adamist
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Flop Johnson]
#11483563 - 11/19/09 05:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That would be a shitty joke if nature only allowed us to evolve to the point where we're capable of inadvertently creating black holes to swallow us up!
It would be a pretty harsh punishment for being just a bit too curious. 
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{ { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } }
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durian_2008
cornucopian eating an elephant
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Adamist]
#11485695 - 11/19/09 03:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Have you ever noticed how religious fundamentalists are portrayed by that Jodie Foster movie, "Contact?"
An alleged terrorist was arrested, working on the LHC, and, in another similarity to the movie, "Contact," replicas of the device have been created in other countries.
CERN is to be restarted tomorrow, FWIW.
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durian_2008
cornucopian eating an elephant
Registered: 04/02/08
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: durian_2008]
#11492131 - 11/20/09 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Either, I was mistaken, or the date has been moved to this weekend.
IMHO, CERN is to Singularity seekers, what the full moon is to lunatics.
In being a grandiose public work, in making people suggestible to the possibility of unknown-unknowns, in representing the hopes and dreams of billions of people, the collider might lead to breakthroughs, which are social, as well as scientific.
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snoot
look alive ∞
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: durian_2008]
#11495437 - 11/20/09 10:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Have you ever noticed how religious fundamentalists are portrayed by that Jodie Foster movie, "Contact?"
An alleged terrorist was arrested, working on the LHC, and, in another similarity to the movie, "Contact," replicas of the device have been created in other countries.
CERN is to be restarted tomorrow, FWIW.
replicas? have you any proof of that?
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
doja designs
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durian_2008
cornucopian eating an elephant
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: snoot]
#11497871 - 11/21/09 12:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
durian_2008 said:
Have you ever noticed how religious fundamentalists are portrayed by that Jodie Foster movie, "Contact?"...
An alleged terrorist was arrested, working on the LHC, and, in another similarity to the movie, "Contact," replicas of the device have been created in other countries.
CERN is to be restarted tomorrow, FWIW.
Quote:
snoot said:
replicas? have you any proof of that?
Not on-hand, but the press releases are out there.
As I recall, Russia and their Communist allies claimed they could do the job cheaper, either with linear versions or with smaller, circular ones.
But, as I have said earlier, occult principles might be important factors.
There are ascending spirals, which sometimes intercept eachother. This may be approximated by that paths of hadrons on a circular course, or in the flow of electrons in some alleged free energy devices.
In any case, there is an underlying expectation that whole will be greater than the sum of the parts.
Especially, in quantum physics, expectation is said to effect the observed results.
This project has our collective attention.
It might be viewed as an exercise in group faith, like the proverbial "Great Work," in which everyone comes together, of one accord - at least in liminality.
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S33D
this side up
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Posts: 510
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: durian_2008]
#11502044 - 11/22/09 01:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cern- Large Hadron Collider
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/
LHC news & updates
http://lhc.web.cern.ch/lhc/News.htm
The collider is scheduled to fire sometime this month. 
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If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits eighty-eight miles per hour... you're gonna see some serious shit.
~Dr. Emmett Brown
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: S33D]
#11505195 - 11/22/09 06:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't wait for the next line of excuses as to why their equipment failed or why they got no results.
I am willing to wager someone an entire months pay-check that they will never discover this 'God' particle.
Any takers?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11505201 - 11/22/09 06:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why not? Every other predicted particle in the standard model has been found. (who the fuck calls it a god particle anyway? I never hear that except for on the internet.)
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11506457 - 11/22/09 09:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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OK, but we must come to an agreement on the timeline becuase we both know that it is likely with all the money spent that if the discovery is not made the scientists are not just going to give up their pay checks and go home so easily.
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt *DELETED* [Re: RationalEgo]
#11506663 - 11/22/09 09:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by FerrisReason for deletion: .
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Discuss Politics
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Ferris]
#11507092 - 11/22/09 10:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its the big money ticket is what it is, the jackpot, the star prize, the main reason why so godamn much money has been invested.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11507135 - 11/22/09 10:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Kind of... It's expected to be found, and if that is all they find then that will be sort of a disappointment. They are looking for data that will go beyond the standard model, they are looking for something that they dont expect. Otherwise high energy people become the victim of their own success, making a model so good that no high energy phenomenon can be found that cant be explained by it.
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snoot
look alive ∞
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11507190 - 11/22/09 10:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
OK, but we must come to an agreement on the timeline becuase we both know that it is likely with all the money spent that if the discovery is not made the scientists are not just going to give up their pay checks and go home so easily.
There is much more going on at the LHC then the search for the HiggsBoson.
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
doja designs
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11514072 - 11/23/09 09:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Kind of... It's expected to be found, and if that is all they find then that will be sort of a disappointment. They are looking for data that will go beyond the standard model, they are looking for something that they dont expect. Otherwise high energy people become the victim of their own success, making a model so good that no high energy phenomenon can be found that cant be explained by it.
They made a successful run of it today. Still up for that wager?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11514376 - 11/23/09 10:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What wager? I dont fucking know what they will find, Im not a physicist and neither are you. You just want to make bets off of gut feelings and intuition? Go to vegas.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11514981 - 11/23/09 11:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Meh, you implied that you would take my wager. Its not gut or intuition either, I have my reasons for thinking that this particle does not exist. Namely my lack in confidence of the theories that would be proven correct if it were discovered. 
But if you don't want to take me up on the bet, that's fine. Perhpas someone else will.
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Chespirito
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,258
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11515106 - 11/23/09 11:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What kind of time frame would we be talking about here
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt *DELETED* [Re: Chespirito]
#11515160 - 11/24/09 12:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by FerrisReason for deletion: .
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Discuss Politics
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: RationalEgo]
#11515200 - 11/24/09 12:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Its not gut or intuition either, I have my reasons for thinking that this particle does not exist. Namely my lack in confidence of the theories that would be proven correct if it were discovered.
That sounds precisely like gut and intuition to me. Regardless, no theory is going to be "proven correct" no matter what happens, thats not how science works. The standard model has already been shown to be consistent and accurate to energy levels in the hundreds of GeVs. If the higgs is found at the LHC that range will be increased to the TeVs. If the higgs isn't found that alone will not devalidate the standard model.
So you dont believe in cosmology/general relativity or particle/quantum physics huh? And all with no evidence whatsoever, and in spite of enormous evidence otherwise... That doesn't sound very 'rational', I think your screen name is a misnomer.
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Ferris]
#11515216 - 11/24/09 12:12 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ferris said:
The CERN LEP Collider operated for 11 years to get to a 95% confidence level that the Higgs didn't exist in it's particular mass range. It shouldn't take that long for Hadron, but to make the bet even, it'd have to be 2-3 years I'd venture.
I would surprised if it took that long. The data will probably be taken in the first few years, and then analyzed in the next few years. I would guess that after ten years of operation would be sufficient.
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RationalEgo
Principium Individuationis
Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,071
Loc: Boston
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11515334 - 11/24/09 12:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
RationalEgo said:
Its not gut or intuition either, I have my reasons for thinking that this particle does not exist. Namely my lack in confidence of the theories that would be proven correct if it were discovered.
That sounds precisely like gut and intuition to me. Regardless, no theory is going to be "proven correct" no matter what happens, thats not how science works. The standard model has already been shown to be consistent and accurate to energy levels in the hundreds of GeVs. If the higgs is found at the LHC that range will be increased to the TeVs. If the higgs isn't found that alone will not devalidate the standard model.
So you dont believe in cosmology/general relativity or particle/quantum physics huh? And all with no evidence whatsoever, and in spite of enormous evidence otherwise... That doesn't sound very 'rational', I think your screen name is a misnomer.
You are putting words in my mouth, I never said that I did not believe in all those theories, but I do see problems with the cosmological model(as I have discussed with you previously) and with some of the quantum theories (string and M theory in particular).
My central issue is with some aspects of todays scientific method itself. I think theories should be constructed based upon facts observed not postulated and mathematically abstracted then sought to be proven correct by observation.
Especially with regard to the BB theory where when the observations do not match the current theory, the scientific solution has been to grasp at new mathematical abstractions to hold the initials theory together in light of new observations.
My whole point boils down to the philisophical argument of induction versus deduction.
Anyhow I am not a physicist and am certainly not qualified in the subjects, but I do have an active interest in some fields and am taking some classes in those specifics.
Edited by RationalEgo (11/24/09 12:41 AM)
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11517086 - 11/24/09 09:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Ferris said:
The CERN LEP Collider operated for 11 years to get to a 95% confidence level that the Higgs didn't exist in it's particular mass range. It shouldn't take that long for Hadron, but to make the bet even, it'd have to be 2-3 years I'd venture.
I would surprised if it took that long. The data will probably be taken in the first few years, and then analyzed in the next few years. I would guess that after ten years of operation would be sufficient.
They run millions and billions of cycles, then look at statistics. It can take a long time to get teh results, even if the work is already done.
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Doc_T]
#11517224 - 11/24/09 10:27 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thought that was what I said 
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11517535 - 11/24/09 11:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I thought you were saying "it might be quick" and I was saying "it might not be quick".
Lotta coffee and weed going on, I could be wrong. 
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 42,267
Last seen: 15 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Doc_T]
#11520792 - 11/24/09 07:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The LHC is not even going to be running at it's designed range (7TEV) for at least two years and has yet to surpass the energy of the Fermilab accelerator. It is running on training wheels now although they managed to tune a collision sooner than they thought. Patience.
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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 8,861
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11522036 - 11/24/09 10:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Ferris said:
The CERN LEP Collider operated for 11 years to get to a 95% confidence level that the Higgs didn't exist in it's particular mass range. It shouldn't take that long for Hadron, but to make the bet even, it'd have to be 2-3 years I'd venture.
I would surprised if it took that long. The data will probably be taken in the first few years, and then analyzed in the next few years. I would guess that after ten years of operation would be sufficient.
based on the LHC's track record, and givin the nature of the machine itll take a couple years before they are colliding at full capacititty.
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
doja designs
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DieCommie
El Guapo
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 25,374
Loc: Street of Dreams
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Doc_T]
#11522662 - 11/24/09 11:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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My guess was about ten years.
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snoot
look alive ∞
Registered: 01/30/05
Posts: 8,861
Loc: 45º parallel
Last seen: 1 day, 16 hours
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11532928 - 11/26/09 06:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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its hard to predict that far in the future this day in age, as new shit will always be invented stuff we cannot predict that may help or worsen our chances of being more efficient at doing.  .
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∞
I am incapable of conceiving infinity, and yet I do not accept finity.
- Simone de Beauvoir -
doja designs
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: DieCommie]
#11533794 - 11/26/09 09:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
My guess was about ten years.
Oh, me too! 
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,158
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Doc_T]
#11536540 - 11/27/09 12:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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$10 says they will have more than 5TeV by March 2010!
Actually, lets make a pool out of this!
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The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift for which we neither understand nor deserve. We should be grateful for it and hope that it will remain valid in future research -- EUGENE P WIGNER
The universe is not only queerer than we suppose; it is queerer than we can suppose -- J.B.S. HALDANE
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: cortex]
#11536713 - 11/27/09 01:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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if you smoked anti-matter weed in a anti-matter pipe, would your lungs explode?
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Doc_T
Random Dude
Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: hidenseek]
#11539544 - 11/27/09 09:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
hidenseek said:
if you smoked anti-matter weed in a anti-matter pipe, would your lungs explode?
You'd have to be in an atmosphere of anti-air, right? 
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You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Ferris
PsychedelicJourneyman
Registered: 03/12/06
Posts: 11,529
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt *DELETED* [Re: Doc_T]
#11581285 - 12/04/09 02:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by FerrisReason for deletion: .
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Discuss Politics
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hidenseek
loafter
Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 4,586
Loc: Etoba-mi-coke
Last seen: 4 months, 28 days
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: Ferris]
#11583634 - 12/04/09 02:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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sonds like some "bomb" weed
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cortex
[ H ] ψ = [ E ] ψ
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 15,158
Loc: Gedankenexperiment
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Re: Large Hadron Collider fired up in 'God particle' hunt [Re: hidenseek]
#11584365 - 12/04/09 04:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
The miracle of the appropriateness of the language of mathematics for the formulation of the laws of physics is a wonderful gift for which we neither understand nor deserve. We should be grateful for it and hope that it will remain valid in future research -- EUGENE P WIGNER
The universe is not only queerer than we suppose; it is queerer than we can suppose -- J.B.S. HALDANE
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