Quote:

---

b2x said:
Substrate *definitely* affects potency.

---

Quote:

---

Rahz said:
Just curious if anyone knows of parameters that affect potency.
(Genetics, substrate, and to an extent, obviously, environment. If you grow them terribly, the first two wont be of much help.

Shrooms grown at 72 -vs- grown at 90?
Fruiting or incubation?
For fruiting. Use the standard around 70.
For incubation NEVER go up around 90.
Your mycelium can die, and surely will die as you approach numbers like 100 without a doubt. Remember, inside the jars, especially after the mycelium starts to process nutes and expand, it throws off it's own heat. The temp inside the jar will be above the outside temp. Overkill often results in failures. The opposite, with proper moisture content, quick colonization.
Low FAE -vs- high FAE?
Former bad, unless you have double tubs etc.
The latter is great. Again, an enviromental factor that's important.
filtered air -vs- unfiltered?
Cleaner=Better
But it wont up your potency. Maybe just maybe, certain "dirty" things microbes etc COULD have negative effects. But we are getting really anal at that point.
If you don't have contams, great.
Without some lab experiments, I doubt someone could answer that other then to say, little if anything at all. And most likely no effect.
But it can prevent contams. Which will spoil everything.

---

It's really about genetics and substrate, for the most part. And as long as your environment isn't terrible.
Those are the factors that will determine potency. And those claiming it's one or the other in this thread are simply wrong. Plain and simple. Too say one or the other neglects to mention the complex relationship between genetics AND substrate.

Example: Think it's just genetics?
Well then I suppose I'll let you select the genetics, and I'll grow with a "poo pie". And you can use a brick. Or, not a good one. You use a rice cake. And I'll use compost and straw.
It's never just one or the other. But certain batches will be stronger then others. Clone one, expand the tissue multiple times. And then fruit it on a high potency sub like hose poo.

Have fun!

EDIT:

Quote:

---

deathw said:
I could have sworn that rr posted about this one and that potency has to do with strain not substrate but don't quote me on him

---

Quote:

---

Krackers said:
I was almost certain that (on very good authority) genetics, exclusively, determine potency while all else simply affects yield...

---

Quote:

---

Psilocybeingzz said:
I find it surprising, and doubtful, that RR would claim it's just one factor. Please find his quote on the matter ASAP. Thanks.

---

Quote:

---

RogerRabbit said:
This subject has been written on extensively. The search feature here is your friend. Potency is genetic. Build your substrates with the food fungi needs, and leave the potency to the mycelium.
RR

---

Quote:

---

RogerRabbit said:
Agreed. Like many growers, at one time I set out in the search of the perfect substrate. The tryptamine/phan threads have been around for a long time, so of course I also included a few substrate materials high in those, such as seaweed. Then, N became the all important nutrient. I tried horse manure, chicken manure, cow manure, worm castings, etc., and the results were always the same. Extremely potent mushrooms came from good isolates whether it was on plain straw, or horse manure or compost. It didn't matter if coffee was added, or worm castings, anything. At the same time, performance from multispore inoculations were all over the scale every grow.

I've honestly never found a substrate additive that increases potency. If one is out there, it's yet to be found.
RR

---

Quote:

---

RogerRabbit said:
The most important factor for potency is genetics. With multi-spore inoculation, it's a roll of the dice. BRF cakes are more nutritious than any other method, by the way. If anyone doubts that, try making a 1/2 pint horse manure cake and see what happens.

Substrates such as horse/cow manure, and coir, worm castings, straw, etc., are bulk substates, which means they need to be used in large amounts to be of much benefit. They can greatly expand the size of your crop when you spawn brf cakes or grains into ten to twenty times as much straw, but they don't impact potency. If there was a single substrate that would make your mushies more potent, don't you think the experienced growers would be pointing you to it?

We recommend horse manure because it has a good texture and can be used by itself with excellent results. The same holds true for straw. Coir and worm castings benefit from the addition of a bit of vermiculite to break them up and coffee grinds of course will help any substrate to perform better. However, they affect the size of the fruits and total yield, not potency.

If you want consistant potency, you'll want to learn strain isolation on agar so you can capture the specific genetics you want, and grow it time and time again, rather than depending on the roll of the dice with multispore inoculation.
RR

---

Quote:

---

Psilocybeingzz said:

Quote:

---

Rahz said:
Just curious if anyone knows of parameters that affect potency.
(Genetics, substrate, and to an extent, obviously, environment. If you grow them terribly, the first two wont be of much help.

Shrooms grown at 72 -vs- grown at 90?
Fruiting or incubation?
For fruiting. Use the standard around 70.
For incubation NEVER go up around 90.
Your mycelium can die, and surely will die as you approach numbers like 100 without a doubt. Remember, inside the jars, especially after the mycelium starts to process nutes and expand, it throws off it's own heat. The temp inside the jar will be above the outside temp. Overkill often results in failures. The opposite, with proper moisture content, quick colonization.
Low FAE -vs- high FAE?
Former bad, unless you have double tubs etc.
The latter is great. Again, an enviromental factor that's important.
filtered air -vs- unfiltered?
Cleaner=Better
But it wont up your potency. Maybe just maybe, certain "dirty" things microbes etc COULD have negative effects. But we are getting really anal at that point.
If you don't have contams, great.
Without some lab experiments, I doubt someone could answer that other then to say, little if anything at all. And most likely no effect.
But it can prevent contams. Which will spoil everything.

---

It's really about genetics and substrate, for the most part. And as long as your environment isn't terrible.
Those are the factors that will determine potency. And those claiming it's one or the other in this thread are simply wrong. Plain and simple. Too say one or the other neglects to mention the complex relationship between genetics AND substrate.

Example: Think it's just genetics?
Well then I suppose I'll let you select the genetics, and I'll grow with a "poo pie". And you can use a brick. Or, not a good one. You use a rice cake. And I'll use compost and straw.
It's never just one or the other. But certain batches will be stronger then others. Clone one, expand the tissue multiple times. And then fruit it on a high potency sub like hose poo.

Have fun!

EDIT:

Quote:

---

deathw said:
I could have sworn that rr posted about this one and that potency has to do with strain not substrate but don't quote me on him

---

I find it surprising, and doubtful, that RR would claim it's just one factor. Please find his quote on the matter ASAP. Thanks.

---

Quote:

---

If you want consistant potency, you'll want to learn strain isolation on agar so you can capture the specific genetics you want, and grow it time and time again, rather than depending on the roll of the dice with multispore inoculation.

---

Quote:

---

RogerRabbit said:
The most important factor for potency is genetics. With multi-spore inoculation, it's a roll of the dice. BRF cakes are more nutritious than any other method, by the way. If anyone doubts that, try making a 1/2 pint horse manure cake and see what happens.

---

I'll stick with BRF cakes for now