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 Fungalution
Fellow Shroomer
Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Earth... I think?
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Sorry lost the photo from above here it is again. I think something like this could work. I have no idea what the sterile liquid nutrient would consist of. Each time you picked it would need to be in sterile conditions as well.
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 mbrown3391
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Registered: 08/22/08
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Quote:
mbrown3391 said:
No technically speaking mushrooms cannot be grown hydroponically simply because the word hydroponic applies only to plants. but the concept is almost identical: growing with only inert substances and liquids
Cheesenoonions, i have already stated that hydroponics can technically only apply to plants. Just look at the thread name! Hydroponic is in quotes.
Everyone is wrapped up in the word hydroponic, when that has nothing to do with this thread. I meant it only figuratively. The topic of the thread is growing mushrooms using only inert media and liquid nutrients, allowing the potential for extended fruiting periods. I said that this was comparable to hydroponics, not that it actually was. So forget i ever used the word.
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fee
Im he who is the
Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 13,228
Loc: amsterdam
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 Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms?  [Re: mbrown3391]
#8879459 - 09/04/08 11:04 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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wouldnt taking perlite and soaking it with a nutrient rich water and growing mushrooms from that be considered hydroponic?
in theory (well the theory im my head any way) says this to be true
or does hydroponic mean adding nutrient later in its life cycle.
if not im pretty sure I can pull that off, if fact I have come very close but it was with very course verm and it worked, not great but I had veil breaking fruits.
so define what your looking for
cause what I gather doesnt seem so hard
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Wiccan_Seeker said:
Have you actually seen what poledancers do?
Its not subjective, it IS erotic activity.
There are more practical ways to slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department.
[quote]fapjack said:
My grandma always said I"'d rather have a rock hard acorn being drilled into me by a man, than some soggy baguette being flicked into me by a fairy."[/quote]
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InTheRainySeason
Stalker
Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 282
Loc: Hostile territory
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http://i37.tinypic.com/6sw747.jpg
I think something like this might work. I don't know if it would kill the plant or not. The mycelium would hold a lot of oxygen when aerated I think. But it might choke the roots eventually. If it didn't choke the plant then it would probably take over and there wouldn't be room for any kind of common hydro contamination that kills the plants.
Might have to remove excess mycelium once in a while if it worked.
Edited by InTheRainySeason (09/04/08 11:08 PM)
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HazeyRoms
The Pro Sonn
Registered: 07/19/08
Posts: 539
Loc: Wisconsin
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Quote:
AdoreChampignons said:
Quote:
HazeyRoms said:
-Lots of fugis grows from liquids and slurrys, that does not mean mushrooms can.
I'm sure that is true. The TV reporter covering the story didn't say what kind of fungus they were using. It may have been a strain of mushroom or may be a mixture of fungi.
-Uhh what they call "Mushroom Beer"(ONLY the commercial version of this kind of beer). It is a fungis that grows and grows off of 1 certain kind of fermented substance and keeps overlapping until it starts to grow a 'mushroom like thing' but doesn't drop spores and the cap is no way detachable from the 'so called stem or stipe'
-But until I see proof, there is no "MUSHROOM" that grows off of liquids.
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-Sonn, Hazey here. And I'm bacc. Anyone in Wisconsin, PM me. Unity my nillas/niggas.
-"5 Nike duffle bags??? How much does all that weigh?? - Just 30 pounds Bruhh, relax my nilla, it don't stink like weed so we're all good."-(Penis Envy Moments)-
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cheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: fee]
#8882159 - 09/05/08 02:35 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hydroponics usually omit adding any kind of carbohydrates or aminos to the "liquid". You can pretty much draw that line. Hydroponics provides a liquid environment (not food) to the autotrophic plant so that it can take these inorganic molecules and make it's own food.... i.e more complex biomolecules (carbs etc).
In growing mushies, you have to provide the food (biomolecules) because mushies, mammals, reptiles, etc cannot produce their own food. So feeding something liquids is still feeding.
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cheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: mbrown3391]
#8882290 - 09/05/08 03:01 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Relax. I read what you wrote and I think you know what you're talking about. If you check my post, it was a reply to fungulation who remarked that he didn't think so and so was relevant and "why can't you do this" and also provided the IV analogy.
I think you could get things to fruit. I am just thinking the sponge might not soak things up so well with mycelia running through it, and karo should be supplemented because it may not work so well potency-wise since it lacks amino acids.
Otherwise, I don't see why you shouldn't try it out.
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LateForTheFuture
Old Hand
Registered: 02/24/03
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Quote:
cheesenoonions said:
Hydroponics usually omit adding any kind of carbohydrates or aminos to the "liquid". You can pretty much draw that line. Hydroponics provides a liquid environment (not food) to the autotrophic plant so that it can take these inorganic molecules and make it's own food.... i.e more complex biomolecules (carbs etc).
In growing mushies, you have to provide the food (biomolecules) because mushies, mammals, reptiles, etc cannot produce their own food. So feeding something liquids is still feeding.
I have had quite a few debates with others on this. Good point, kudos your way.
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Fungalution
Fellow Shroomer
Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 129
Loc: Earth... I think?
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I don't think this thread was made to argue the semantics of the work hydroponic but it might be good to clarify the definition. I don't think any one has posted the definition yet so here you go.
Hydroponics (from the Greek words hydro (water) and ponos (labour) is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, usually without soil. Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral nutrient solution only or in an inert medium, such as perlite, gravel, or mineral wool.
This is Wikipedia's definition. Not very good IMHO. But basically is saying it is the way of growing plants through a water bases solution. I really don't see why the term could not be used accurately in a situation were you grow mushrooms through a water based solution. The Greek word does not exclude it only to plants. They use plants as an example as it is what it is used for. Just because plants need different nutrients than mushrooms makes no difference. You are still providing what they need to grow through a water based method. I hope that makes everything as clear as mud. But this really is not about "hydroponic" mushrooms, it is about growing mushrooms from an inert substrate using a water based solution to provide the nutrition they need to grow. In hopes that you can continue feeding and continue getting mushrooms to grow from the same "sponge" or what ever is used (a very interesting topic IMHO). So who is going to give this a go?
Cheesenoonions: I don't know much about hydroponics but it looks like there are hydro nutes that are full of carbohydrates.
http://organic-hydroponicsupplies.thebigtomato.com/shared/StoreFront/default.asp?CS=tbt&StoreType=BtoC&Count1=230175197&Count2=147315621&ProductID=2222&Target=products.asp&gclid=CN7tz423xZUCFRJexwodPGr-hg
So you must be able to feed carbs (food)to a plant and they must be able to use it.
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worowa
Professor
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: Fungalution]
#8883470 - 09/05/08 07:51 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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ponere-Latin for place, is where ponics is derived from, according to my Macquarie dictionary.
A Loofah sponge would grow mushies.
My thoughts are that mycelium don't eat themselves, and mushies arise at the perimeter-where new growth is. They need to move, like how a fairy ring grows outwards. I reckon you could grow some with liquid nutrients, but not get continuous fruitings without allowing new mycelium to grow.
I imagine plants growing hydroponically also need room to move, or they die. The roots will get pot-bound, so you prune them-just supplying nutes is not enough.
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R10tGuNn3r
Don Tron
Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 674
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: worowa]
#8884233 - 09/05/08 10:52 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
worowa said:
ponere-Latin for place, is where ponics is derived from, according to my Macquarie dictionary.
A Loofah sponge would grow mushies.
My thoughts are that mycelium don't eat themselves, and mushies arise at the perimeter-where new growth is. They need to move, like how a fairy ring grows outwards. I reckon you could grow some with liquid nutrients, but not get continuous fruitings without allowing new mycelium to grow.
I imagine plants growing hydroponically also need room to move, or they die. The roots will get pot-bound, so you prune them-just supplying nutes is not enough.
i've been following this thread off and on.. from what im getting is mycelium cant grow on just liquid nutrient alone because it doesnt digest liquid nutrient alone... it needs something with substance... now myc spreads very rapidly so maby getting a hydroponic mushroom isnt about the liquid being the nutrient... look at the liquid as the medium to deliver the myc to its food.... in a sense... a liquid culture... that can be added nutrient to... ie karo and water to replenish the myc... where you dunk a cake in this giant liquid culture for 24 hours... and take it out and boom... instant colonization... well not instant but a lot quicker than regular... then take the cake out to fruit it once its colonized...
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The mushroom is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.
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mbrown3391
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Registered: 08/22/08
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: R10tGuNn3r]
#8884754 - 09/06/08 01:24 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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There is no difference between solid carbohydrates and dissolved carbohydrates as far as the mycelium is concerned. The only reason that mushrooms need "substance", as you say, is so that the mycelium has something to colonize. The sponge provides this.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? (moved)
#8884789 - 09/06/08 01:37 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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 This thread was moved from Advanced Mycology.
Reason:
Quote:
mbrown3391 said:
There is no difference between solid carbohydrates and dissolved carbohydrates as far as the mycelium is concerned. The only reason that mushrooms need "substance", as you say, is so that the mycelium has something to colonize. The sponge provides this.
You are flat-out wrong. In addition, all these ideas have been tried dozens and dozens of times with the same exact results. . .zero.
I'll move this thread to cultivation. It's drifted too far off topic in advanced.
RR
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!
Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 1,678
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? (moved) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8884813 - 09/06/08 01:51 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Prehaps the nutrients doesn't matter but the way mycelium works growing a "network" of rhizomorphs that work as feeding sites would be effected as it wouldn't grow through out the liquids as it does in a normal substrate.
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coda said:
imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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R10tGuNn3r
Don Tron
Registered: 08/06/08
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? (moved) [Re: flavoraid]
#8885342 - 09/06/08 06:15 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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my only point is.. maby the secret to "hydroponic" shrooms is in the lc used to propagate the cakes... every time i've seen a lc its been used to inject a cake the same as spores would be... take a mass lc of an isolate... dunk a sterilized brf cake in the lc of the isolate... leave it in the fruiting chamber to do its thing.. moisture content will un-fuck its self... (the moisture will evap from the cake leaving a humid fc) i bet colonization and fruiting will happen well before the expected colonize, birth, dunk, roll cakes... stay on top of humidity in the fc and average fruiting and growing peramiters and you may have a quicker way to get these shrooms a rollin
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The mushroom is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.
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cheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: Fungalution]
#8885469 - 09/06/08 08:38 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fungalution said:
Hydroponics (from the Greek words hydro (water) and ponos (labour) is a method of growing plants using mineral nutrient solutions, usually without soil. Terrestrial plants may be grown with their roots in the mineral nutrient solution only or in an inert medium, such as perlite, gravel, or mineral wool.
This is Wikipedia's definition. Not very good IMHO. But basically is saying it is the way of growing plants through a water bases solution. I really don't see why the term could not be used accurately in a situation were you grow mushrooms through a water based solution. The Greek word does not exclude it only to plants.
If you "don't see why", then you don't see why. You should wiki photosynthesis. It's bare bones, but it'll suffice in leu of actually reading two or three chapters in a biochemistry textbook.
The greek words do not "exclude" anything not having to do with "water labor." If you only use the greek roots as gospel to understand the definition of a word, then, in this case, giving birth in water can be considered hydroponic as well as working as a life guard.
The link you provided says:
"It starts when one of our plant scientists was loading up on carbohydrates before a weight-lifting competition."
AND
"So he did groundbreaking research and discovered that yes, your plants run out of carbohydrates during bloom phase so the plants get tired and stop making bigger, better flowers."
This is just a lie. One of our scientists? Ground breaking research? And in case you were wondering, those kinoki footpads don't work either, but that doesn't stop anyone from posting their "groundbreaking" effects on the websites that try to sell them.
My discipline isn't botany, it's biochemistry, so I can't definitively say that carbohydrates can't diffuse (I'm referring to Active and Passive here) through the cell walls of roots. I can't say that given this, it may help with flowering. But I CAN say you shouldn't buy this product. lol. What I CAN say is the general consensus is that plants do not normally use their root systems to suck up carbohydrates from soil. Even in the most extreme example of carnivorous plants, the plants "digest" insects as a source of nitrogen, NOT as a source of food. If you're thinking that because things like Nitrogen and Phosphorous are called nutrients when referring to plant biochemistry, and because it's also possible to generically refer to the carbohydrates and amino acids that fungi use for food as nutrients that the two are interchangeable....you are wrong.
Breast feeding is not hydroponic. Feeding someone through a tube or IV is not hydroponic, feeding birds liquids is not hydropnic and growing bacteria and fungi in liquid culture is not hydroponic.
Again. The basic idea is that plants take up inorganic molecules from their roots and use them to make their own food through photosynthesis. Hydroponic is more of an environment that the grower provides than a type of feeding regimen. You're getting confused because of the word nutrient. It's a broad description of many, many things. And in case you wiki "nutrient" and see that it states that plants externally digest things.....that's also incorrect.
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mbrown3391
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Registered: 08/22/08
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We all know that mycelium can grow off of liquid nutrients. This is why liquid cultures can work. Why is it so much a stretch to assume that they could also colonize a sponge saturated in the same liquid?
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RogerRabbit
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: mbrown3391]
#8888640 - 09/07/08 12:01 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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It isn't a stretch. They could. They just wouldn't fruit unless the sponge was natural and they were feeding off of it, not the LC.
RR
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mbrown3391
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#8888660 - 09/07/08 12:06 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would be interested in learning more then about what mycelium needs to fruit exactly. Explanations or links to literature dealing with this topic would be much appreciated.
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cheesenoonions
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Registered: 04/02/01
Posts: 584
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Re: "Hydroponic" Mushrooms? [Re: mbrown3391]
#8889531 - 09/07/08 04:15 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Who's saying it's a stretch? I think you can get your sponge to colonize. There are also posts in here that have pictures of people with mycelium fruiting in jars off of liquid culture. I'm wondering how absorbent the sponge will be fully colonized. So get to it and post some pics.
Edited by cheesenoonions (09/07/08 04:29 AM)
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