|
 leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,227
Last seen: 4 months, 22 days
|
 Re: Meditation is useless  [Re: Lakefingers]
#8713415 - 08/01/08 08:09 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
the person using meditation is not the person who benefits from it
hence it is use-less
it cannot be used
it is in fact, being used by what we are not currently, and letting ourselves be tuned up.
--------------------
Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
|
 dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: leery11]
#8713427 - 08/01/08 08:14 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
leery11 said:
it is in fact, being used by what we are not currently, and letting ourselves be tuned up.
We are just as we are right this very second. And that is good enough. No need for a tune-up, just to be how we are.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
Edited by dblaney (08/02/08 12:25 AM)
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,954
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: dblaney]
#8713868 - 08/01/08 10:10 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
anatta is not another self it is no self
but leery is right too
the self that sat down is a different event from the self that gets up.
cervantes, I am glad that the comment I made did not negatively impact you.
i don't think that that point needs to be any sharper,
but if you are bleeding wisdom, it is a good thing.
--------------------
~~~~~
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
i don't think that that point needs to be any sharper
And an extra point for you for correctly using a doubled "that that" in a sentence...! 
>^;;^<
--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,859
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill 
Last seen: 5 hours, 16 minutes
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
cervantes, I am glad that the comment I made did not negatively impact you.
i don't think that that point needs to be any sharper,
but if you are bleeding wisdom, it is a good thing.
I'm sorry RGV... did I do something to you in order to inspire your snarky, cunning, and sharply worded sarcasm?
Perhaps it was when I taught you the difference between personalisms and passive-aggression?
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
 Re: Meditation is useless [Re: Cervantes]
#8714212 - 08/01/08 11:59 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I don't see sarcasm in that response, but, I wasn't looking for it either.... 
>^;;^<
--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
|
dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
anatta is not another self it is no self
but leery is right too
the self that sat down is a different event from the self that gets up.
cervantes, I am glad that the comment I made did not negatively impact you.
i don't think that that point needs to be any sharper,
but if you are bleeding wisdom, it is a good thing.
Post edited to better convey my sentiment.
--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
|
Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,859
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill
Last seen: 5 hours, 16 minutes
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8714295 - 08/02/08 12:28 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Red has been quite subversive... but he keeps jabbing me about a time a few weeks ago when I caught him using a personalism in one of his arguments and called his ass out.
--------------------
I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,954
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: Cervantes]
#8714720 - 08/02/08 03:13 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
whaaat?
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
|
often meditation is also a copying and pasting
or posting in threads
or any looking for or doing according to
|
Lakefingers
Registered: 08/26/05
Posts: 5,660
Loc: mumuland
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: dblaney]
#8714829 - 08/02/08 04:05 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
to discover whether something is useful
requires more than discussing checklists of uses,
such as uses of tools for..., or bags of tricks, or mind-state enablers, or one or more steps of twelve, or cures, or utilitarian ideals (as some of you had said, meditating is good for others).
use is a machine (a device that works and transfers things)
but what is its use? yes, something else - the work guided by other postulates.
why was the machine made?
perhaps there's a *made in* logo on this machine:
it says, made in East Asia
and lots of people want their own
we discuss this as if we can become knowledgeable about the purpose of meditation,
but isn't meditation the purpose?
and isn't this practice, this compassion (wisdom), something quite different than knowing?
meditation presences as a rounding, a deconstruction through restructuring,
meditation often comes about not because of praxis but theory.
and as made in india it is also the reflection of oneself in others, the meditators,
the competition,
the gods among us who encourage our uses of modal verbs,
who instill in us wanton states (states of lack, envy, awareness of something *higher*),
thus behind the uses are "shoulds" and "musts"
why do some buddhas meditate and others not?
|
capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: Lakefingers]
#8714942 - 08/02/08 05:06 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
wise words grasshopper..
But what did you think..? that sitting crosslegged and dwelling on your breathing patterns was going to perform miracles.
although I doubt setting yourself on fire in an act of self-immolation would be accomplished without the aid of meditation. To sit their in mediative trance and burn yourself alive is pretty real. Cause I'd freak out and start rolling around screaming. So the point is if you want to set yourself on fire to show how bad your are, meditate.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
|
 Re: Meditation is useless [Re: dblaney]
#8714983 - 08/02/08 05:29 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
dblaney said:
Meditation is useless
Did you mean to say,
Meditation is: "Use Less"
?
>^;;^<
--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,954
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8715099 - 08/02/08 08:02 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
use suitably
--------------------
~~~~~
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,860
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
yah, sure.
you already transcended quoting verbatim as a primo and comforting way of communicating,
right?
c'mon
quoting sounds smart!
quoting and repeating smart stuff even seems right!
if someone has this habit,
it will take lots of effort to get more original spontaneous and genuine.
do you have problems with that view?
This definitely reminds me of one of our newest posters (posers) here.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
BraveWolf
Not one, not many
Registered: 03/03/07
Posts: 17
Last seen: 9 months, 21 days
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: dblaney]
#8715299 - 08/02/08 10:07 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
I get frustrated with the words of the old masters sometimes:
How are you?
Sun-faced Buddha and Moon-faced Buddha.
I want to reach back in time and say, "Knock it off you stupid old fuck and answer the question!"
I've read through all 4 pages of posts in this thread. On page 1 I felt annoyance at the OP for engaging in just the kind of befuddling and oblique dialog quoted above. By page 4 I remembered that comments like his ignite my passions and force me to assess them; to assess my attachments; my value factory which operates round the clock churning out judgments.
My problem, as always, is dualism - which, of course, means there is also no problem at all. I was originally drawn to meditation by gaining ideas, now I understand that there was nothing to gain in the first place. But doesn't that mean I have gained something? To say meditation is useful is correct - to say that meditation is useless is also correct. This isn't pointless double-talk. (And yes, I know, by my own argument it is also pointless double-talk). As a meaningful statement it describes with woeful inadequacy the true nature of my own notions. When I found what I was looking for through meditation I looked at language and saw a broken toy from childhood. Language is born of dualism and is equipped only to divide our immediate experience into is and is not, now and not now, good and not good.
Most of the time I'm a chatter-box who loves to hear himself talk. Most of the time I'm in love with that broken toy from childhood called language. But sometimes, while walking my dog on a cool and breezy Tuesday evening, I have nothing left to say but Sun-faced Buddha and Moon-faced Buddha.
By all means, meditate to gain, and in so doing gain no-gaining.
--------------------
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you.
Don't go back to sleep.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,860
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: capliberty]
#8715307 - 08/02/08 10:08 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
capliberty said:
wise words grasshopper..
But what did you think..? that sitting crosslegged and dwelling on your breathing patterns was going to perform miracles.
although I doubt setting yourself on fire in an act of self-immolation would be accomplished without the aid of meditation. To sit their in mediative trance and burn yourself alive is pretty real. Cause I'd freak out and start rolling around screaming. So the point is if you want to set yourself on fire to show how bad your are, meditate.
So I can do more than just use meditation for napping.
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 14,954
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: BraveWolf]
#8715791 - 08/02/08 12:58 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
BraveWolf said:
.....
Most of the time I'm a chatter-box who loves to hear himself talk. Most of the time I'm in love with that broken toy from childhood called language. But sometimes, while walking my dog on a cool and breezy Tuesday evening, I have nothing left to say but Sun-faced Buddha and Moon-faced Buddha.
By all means, meditate to gain, and in so doing gain no-gaining.
like paddling a canoe on both sides in order to go down the middle.
I like the cadence of your delivery.
that broken toy from childhood is more about cadence than it is about dualism.
- language development comes from associativity with the singsongsounds and what is happenning when they are heard.
dualism is a refinement, it is a guantlet tossing, it is territoriality and lies.
it is a twisted thing, a terrible challenge, you are up against the wall, and have to split.
dualism is from pre-adolescence, the sinister part of the schoolyard, and the terror from parents out of control.
--------------------
~~~~~
|
ExplosiveMango
HallucinogenusDigitallus
Registered: 07/12/05
Posts: 3,222
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
|
|
Yeah I actually realized that there was homonymity in the statement that I caught on. It is useless, and useful- presuming a singular self the statement is contradictory. Realizing the multiplicity of self- the meditative self is allowed to exist uselessly, the waking self is allowed to relax and refine usefully.
--------------------
Know your self.
Know your substance.
Know your source.
The most distorted perspective possible is the perspective that yours is not distorted.
Edited by ExplosiveMango (08/02/08 04:23 PM)
|
lucid
Jack's AlteredConsciousness
Registered: 03/29/03
Posts: 6,296
Loc: up on the bidet
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
|
Re: Meditation is useless [Re: leery11]
#8716479 - 08/02/08 04:13 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
|
|
ironicly meditation is supposed to be "useless"
i.e. not "trying" to acheive anything.
i consider meditation an act of experiencing the joy of experiencing.
like making love
making love to the present moment if u will....
--------------------
"no-mind un-thinks no-thought..."
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
Anonymous
