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 SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
 
Registered: 01/15/05
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 modern medicine makes me lol.... 
#8660152 - 07/20/08 08:30 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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the other day my buddy who has spent the last 7 years trying to become an MD tells me that he is going to go into pain managment.
so I said "you are going to be a drug dealer?"
he spins out into this defensive argument bespeckled with "fibromyalgia(sp?)", "terminal patients" and such...
so I ask him "do you really need to spend 11 years or so to learn how to dole out oxycontin and morphine?"
he gets really pissed and starts rattling off reasons why someone needs to be clinically trained to sling heavy duty pain killers and accurately diagnose the amount of pain someone is in.
he seriously believes that there is some scientific (read: objective) way to accurately guage a persons pain.
it amazes me that highly intelligent people can devote a huge chunk of their life without ever questioning the fundamental basis and premise for it all.
I was truthfully unable to even have him comprehend the concept (read: reality) that it is impossible for pain to be objective.
I honestly believe that he is unable to entertain the possibility that (for instance) there is very little variance of menstrual function and women just experience, or perceive cramps relative to their pain threshold.
western healthcare: we work on the premise that happiness, healthiness, and quality are objective lines drawn in the sand and we treat according to where you fall above or below these lines.
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 badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 9,152
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8660197 - 07/20/08 08:38 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone vaguely familiar with the medical field would suggest pain is objective. What did your friend propose as the objective way to measure pain? I may be wrong but in general, a "pain scale" is used.
Did you ask him if there were any non-pharmacological ways to manage particular types of pain?
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 14,105
Last seen: 10 minutes, 7 seconds
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: badchad]
#8660250 - 07/20/08 08:52 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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no, we didnt discuss any non-pharmy ways to combat it... i would be interested to find out if any actually exist within the "respected" medical field.
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doulovebeef
Terminal Frost
Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 254
Loc: In your closet
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: badchad]
#8660252 - 07/20/08 08:54 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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im a phlebotomist and some of my closest friends are MDs. yes there is a pain scale, however im not sure what its called, the weird thing is anything thats none drug based is 'alternative healing' and thats a whole different college.. most docs simply think that handing out meds will take care of everything and anything, what alot of people dont understand is docs who give out the most of a certain medication, the company makes that shit gives out gifts, catered lunches, money bonuses, trips.. so its a vicious cycle..
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daytripper23
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8660267 - 07/20/08 08:58 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hmmm while I probably agree with your sentiment, I would say based on the instance you described you jumped to a conclusion too soon.
Im not sure what pain management is, but I would assume that it is a discipline, that uses medication.
Right, I know if its pain management, we can assume they are not talking about using mushrooms, pot and Acid as tools for a discipline.
But if you draw the line where you did, speculation aside - your probably condemning yourself?
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bradley
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8660706 - 07/20/08 10:59 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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i agree with your sentiment as well but not with all of your arguments. i think pain and happiness have some objective basis (there are many ways to measure these) but that the "objective boundary" is very mirky. Also, you have to account for attitude and really the whole neurological state to determine how much pain pains someone.
Other than that, the drugs suck and the system sucks.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: bradley]
#8660896 - 07/20/08 11:40 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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there are zero objective or quantative measurements that can be taken of pain or happiness.
it is all relative to what we have agreed to be symptoms of what is a happy life or a painful feeling.
"ah, this person is hunched over and grimacing.. they must be a 7 on the pain scale from back complications".
"ah, this person has a nice white smile a majority of the day, they must be a 9 on the happy scale".
pain is nothing more than part of your body telling your brain that you are in pain.... so pain actually doesnt exist beyond our minds.
put on some icy hot and you can "think" it to be cold or hot.... I remember this metallic bar at the epcot center that was the same way... you put your hands on it and you could think it to be either really hot or really cold.
its the same way with pain and happiness.... it doesnt exist outside of your mind. therefor, how can it possibly be objective in any manner?
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deranger
Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8661087 - 07/21/08 12:41 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't get it either man.
people who go to school for 10+ years don't know how to live.
there's much more to life than pursuing some fucking boring career.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8661989 - 07/21/08 09:10 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
"ah, this person is hunched over and grimacing.. they must be a 7 on the pain scale from back complications".
"ah, this person has a nice white smile a majority of the day, they must be a 9 on the happy scale".
I presume they discuss the pain with patient rather than looking at them and making guesses. I'd say there'd be a lot of regular communication with the patient so the doctor can see if the treatment is working, if the dose needs to be adjusted, if there are more suitable drugs for this specific case, etc. It's not just a matter of writing out a script for vicodin. Any old GP can do that.
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I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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bradley
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8662032 - 07/21/08 09:42 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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someone who is sitting in a relaxed posture with a serene smile on their face is probably in less pain that someone hunched on the floor clutching their heart with a look of anguish. Since you don't like the idea of medicine, suppose you are a pain hypnotist and you see these two people side by side. If there is NO objective basis for pain, you have no idea which person to help right?
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Az0th
quantum transfiguration
Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 53,498
Loc: The Void
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8662369 - 07/21/08 11:53 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is the biggest problem with modern medicine imo. Mostly in the fact that they just treat the symptoms (in this case pain) and rarely consider the source.
But hey... let's just pump them full of Fentanyl and everything will be ok.
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~Thought Creates Reality~
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downforpot
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/01
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: Az0th]
#8664415 - 07/21/08 09:02 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
This is the biggest problem with modern medicine imo. Mostly in the fact that they just treat the symptoms (in this case pain) and rarely consider the source.
But hey... let's just pump them full of Fentanyl and everything will be ok.
It will be okay. Just keep pumping the fent.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25
"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 16,587
Loc: Americas
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: Az0th]
#8664867 - 07/21/08 10:36 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
This is the biggest problem with modern medicine imo. Mostly in the fact that they just treat the symptoms (in this case pain) and rarely consider the source.
But hey... let's just pump them full of Fentanyl and everything will be ok.
If by problem you mean limitation, then I agree.
I hope your not suggesting that people with painful conditions or whatever are intentionally being denied treatment they would like to recieve. If anything, the surgeons are all to eager to cut... consult evaluations don't pay the bills.
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gotyerback
SpiritualAdvisor
Registered: 09/05/05
Posts: 353
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: johnm214]
#8665427 - 07/22/08 12:18 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not sure what your point is exactly. I wish pain could be objectively measured. When I see my doctor, I try to describe the pain, but she just wants me to put it on the scale.
Pain meds are hell, but when you are in chronic pain, you do whatever it takes to not be in pain.
PAIN IS A POWERFUL MOTIVATOR.
Until you are in that kind of pain keep laughing at western doctors
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JH05
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/08
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8665499 - 07/22/08 12:29 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 14,105
Last seen: 10 minutes, 7 seconds
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: JH05]
#8665542 - 07/22/08 12:40 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Until you are in that kind of pain keep laughing at western doctors
Im not saying that pain medication is useless, but it isnt a solution. I think that this picture of quang duc proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that pain is merely a symptom of how you perceive physical stimulation.
to see this western medicine phenomena from my perspective would be like trying to make illiterate peopels lives easier by putting pictures up everywhere rather than teach them to read. "just point to the burger you want".
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JH05
Stranger
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8665548 - 07/22/08 12:41 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
YawningAnus said:
I think that this picture of quang duc proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that pain is merely a symptom of how you perceive physical stimulation.
What's it of?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 14,105
Last seen: 10 minutes, 7 seconds
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: JH05]
#8665554 - 07/22/08 12:43 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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JH05
Stranger
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: SneezingPenis]
#8665612 - 07/22/08 12:49 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Anyone who doesn't believe in the paranormal should check that out.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: modern medicine makes me lol.... [Re: JH05]
#8665665 - 07/22/08 12:58 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Paranormal? Was he an alien?
--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
but truth is the hardest thing to see
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