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OfflineAzen
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$50,000 to invest
    #8632506 - 07/14/08 08:28 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I have been saving for a while and am in a position where I want to do something with the $50K I have instead of letting it just sit in a savings account.  I was going to use it for a down payment on a house, but the market is terrible right now and I don't think that would be a wise investment.  I feel housing will continue to decrease for the next 3-5+ years.

This is going to be a 5 year investment.  Whatever I decide to invest in, I will most likely sell in 5 years to buy a home.  I'm completely ignorant when it comes to the stock market, so I doubt I'll be spending any money there.

At the top of my list is investing all of it into silver.  I know I should have a balanced portfolio, but it just seems right with China and India going through their industrial revolutions.  I was either thinking of buying all in 1oz coins, or 10 or 100oz bars.  Putting $10K or so into gold is also an option, with the rest going into silver.

The way I want to do this has to be anonymous.  I don't want the government digging their greedy hands into my pockets if I make a large amount doing this.  Any advice on how to go about this anonymously would be greatly appreciated.  I think I heard that if I make a purchase of $10K or more that the IRS knows about it.

Other options besides investing in metals would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!


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Offlineillume
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8632522 - 07/14/08 08:39 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Hey Seems like you have researched it pretty well yourself.
The only thing that I would consider other than what you have posted would be steel.

There is no way that I know off to make such transactions without having to provide proof of id.

Good luck, let us know what you decide to go on:thumbup:


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Offlineperosiste
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8632525 - 07/14/08 08:42 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

If you really want to invest in precious metals find your local coin shops.  There you can buy individual coins and small amounts of bullion.  Be sure not to pay to much above the market price for coins as they can be finiky to unload, bullion is best.  doing this you can stock pile large amts of metals that no one knows you have.  Be sure not to buy to much at one place at one time, ebay is also an option.

as far as unloading all this goes be prepared for someone to take a cut Ive had trouble when I try to sell privately but when I go through a reseller I get paid right away its usually about ten percent less.

Im not sure how easy it is to get any more but UBS and RBS are good overseas banks that have domestic branches and they will manage your money for you.


--------------------
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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8632528 - 07/14/08 08:44 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

This is one of the better times to buy a home. Get in while everyone else is scared. Housing will not collapse. It's impossible - we need places to live.

Home prices will rebound. Get in now. By the time you think about moving, you will have seen the rise, and be able to cash in profits.

If history serves as the guide, home buying is the best investment hands down. :heartpump:

Just make sure you pick a nice area, and locked interest rates:smirk:


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Offlinemikebart101
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: AroundtheSon]
    #8632572 - 07/14/08 09:06 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Buy a muscle car/collector car. You will probably double your money within 5 years.


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.


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InvisibleYthanA
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8632947 - 07/14/08 12:34 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Just another perspective here, personally I would recommend a Roth IRA with no-load, low expense-ratio index funds. I'm sure every serious investor has considered the effect of China and India on the demand for precious metals and it's reflected in the current market price. Anyway, even if it looks like a sure thing it's not prudent to invest everything in a single sector unless you have a deep understanding of the market forces at work and years of experience. By all means, set aside a couple grand to speculate as you please. But for the majority of your portfolio I would go with something like VTSMX and VGTSX to diversify and protect your assets. Your returns will be respectable, not extraordinary, but attempting to beat the market has been the downfall of many an investor. And with a Roth IRA you can withdraw your funds at any time to buy a home, or if your situation changes and you decide to defer the purchase you'll be well on your way to building a respectable nest egg.


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8632976 - 07/14/08 12:48 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I forgot to mention...Good work saving all that loot :thumbsup:

You either have good discipline, an inheritance, or drug sales!


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8633106 - 07/14/08 01:35 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

As Ythan suggested, an index fund would be a solid place to keep your money without having to actively worry about it.  But as AroundtheSon noted, this may not be such a bad time to buy a home either!  While the housing market may continue to fall for a while longer, it has already given back a lot of value and so long as you aren't planning on a short-term flip (i.e. you actually plan to LIVE in the house for some time), this seems like a good time to pick one up while mortgage rates are still historically low and home values have fallen.


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Offlinemoho456
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: geokills]
    #8635691 - 07/15/08 12:22 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Let my old man manage it for you, he got 20% returns last quarter. In the current state of the US economy, thats fucking unbelievable.


--------------------
When the going gets wierd, the wierd turn pro.

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Invisiblegoobler
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: moho456]
    #8636818 - 07/15/08 10:11 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

shit that is

where does he work?


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InvisibleLiquidkick
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8638122 - 07/15/08 04:16 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Let me first say.  DO NOT FUCKING INVEST! 

DAYTRADE WITH THE 50,000 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make sure you go long or short! and not have a bias. 

I do prefer to short right now... but it might be ending very soon and might have to start looking for long positions.

DO NOT BUY NAME BRAND STOCKS!  THERE IS NO EDGE IF DAYTRADING!!!!

Enjoy.


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Offlinebukujutsu
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Liquidkick]
    #8639419 - 07/15/08 09:17 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Woah, dude, that's terrible advice. I'm pretty sure most people would agree that day trading is a bad idea(unless the market isn't efficient(I'm undecided) and you have a lot of experience).

moho456, what did your dad do to get 20% returns?


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InvisibleLiquidkick
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: bukujutsu]
    #8639881 - 07/15/08 10:54 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Thats terrible advice you are giving. 

Daytrading is the way.  Of course you are gonna have to learn about the markets.  EITHER WAY!

Why don't you go invest in some shitty Index fund. I gave him my opinion.  He can listen to me or listen to the vast majority of the idiots who "Invests"

Those investors and mutual fund folks saw the dow go under 11k! 

eat that investors.


Edited by Liquidkick (07/15/08 11:21 PM)


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InvisibleYthanA
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Liquidkick]
    #8640613 - 07/16/08 02:18 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah and maybe he should get into the forex market while he's at it. :rolleyes:

Azen, decide for yourself but bukujutsu is right that most people would recommend against day trading because of the high risk and massive amount of work involved. Also, apparently it can turn you into a belligerent prick.


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InvisibleLanaV
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Ythan]
    #8641582 - 07/16/08 10:10 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

"Also, apparently it can turn you into a belligerent prick."

HA :smile:  Thats funny.

Yes, I too would advise against day trading.  But only because you're not a professional trader.  I know guys who day trade and they do well, but it also took years of practice and many accounts that got blown out. 

Liquidkick said "Daytrading is the way.  Of course you are gonna have to learn about the markets.  EITHER WAY"

Key phrase there is "learn about the markets" which usually takes years if not a life time :smile:

If you're in the US, and you want fast access to your funds you may want to think about a bank with a high interest rate.  For example, http://www.anz.com/australia/persbnk/prdsrv/savings/cash_management.asp

ANZ is an Australian bank paying out 7% a year on their savings accounts.  I know I know, its not really much but considering what a US based accounts are offering, this isn't too bad.  Plus, if it takes you awhile to decide on what you're going to do, why not make a little interest while it sits there? 

Just remember, risk vs. reward.    If you're going to take a huge risk you'd better get a huge reward.  If you're going to take a small risk expect a small reward.

Either way, have fun!

Lana


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Offlineperosiste
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Lana]
    #8641798 - 07/16/08 11:26 AM (4 years, 10 months ago)

One thing that I would reccomend if you don't need the money for daily life which I assume you don't is to put the money in a short term cd 3 to 6 months.

The money made on it would be "negligable" but the time spent deciding on investment vehicles and strategies would be priceless.

This is I did when I seriously garnered an interest in investing, and the result was that I didn't jump at the first "good" idea that came my way.  Also any investment worth making can wait a month or two.

If it were my money I would put
30 into a 6 month cd
15 into a 3 month cd
5 leave as cash

The spend as much time as possible researching the ideas that are suggested.

OR

go to vegas and play $1000 hands of blackjack.


BUT DO NOT DAY TRADE

every daytrader that i know except one is a paranoid borderline psychotic supersticious psycho.  The one that isn't only trades one stock and he knows what he is doing (mostly).  Also he has the money to lose.  Day trading with 50k is like playing nickle slots in a gas station.  The odds a against you in every way and the payoff wont match the ante.


--------------------
Risk Management will be the downfall of western civilization


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InvisibleLiquidkick
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Ythan]
    #8642498 - 07/16/08 02:58 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I love how everyone hear is so afraid of day trading.  If you day trade.  Use like 5% of  your capital or better yet 2%.  The other money sits for you to make sure you are above that PDT rule.

Learn technical analysis, market maker traps.  Do not play name brand stocks.  Play the shitty companies due to volatility.  Pump and dumps are very predictable.

Go long/short.  Use protective puts if you want. 

The people who are telling you not to day trade are people who do not understand the markets and how wall street works. 

There is risk, but you should cut losses quickly if you day trade.  Hell you should cut losses quickly every time, swing trader, investor, etc...  YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO TAKE SOME RISK IN ANY STOCK MARKET!

As far as forex.  You can play that too.  Forex tends to follow technical analysis.  It reacts more on macro news.  You'll have to learn a lot about xyz country. 


Hell if you have 50k you can actually start selling naked options which is very lucrative.  You'll of course need to make sure you CYA with spreads. 

Options is where you can make ton of money, but its like statistics on steroids.  Probably take you awhile to learn it. 

The vast majority of the people hear do not know shit and i would not listen to them. 

Especially Ythan and Lana.

They run businesses/program and that's their skill not trading stocks.

I am sure they would have the skills if they they stop being douches.


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InvisibleYthanA
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Azen]
    #8642540 - 07/16/08 03:08 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

:blah:

"Charts are great for predicting the past." -Peter Lynch

"I realized technical analysis didn't work when I turned the charts upside down and didn't get a different answer" -Warren Buffett

"If past history was all there was to the game, the richest people would be librarians." -Warren Buffett

(And just to be fair, "A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltair)

But I guess Peter Lynch and Warren Buffett "don't know shit" either, you're definitely better off listening to some random douche on the internet. :rolleyes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_analysis is the worthwhile alternative if you want to pick your own stocks.


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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Liquidkick]
    #8642548 - 07/16/08 03:10 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

I think that you are ignoring the fact that day trading is simply not as likely to result in success in the long term as is well-planned investing.  Here's what Morningstar has to say about it:

Quote:

Beyond having to expend an incredible amount of effort to track stocks on an hour-by-hour basis, active day traders have three powerful factors working against them. First, trading commissions can rack up quickly, dramatically eroding returns. Second, there are other trading costs in terms of the bid/ask spread, or the small spread between what buyers are bidding and sellers are asking at any moment. These more hidden frictional costs are typically only a small fraction of the stock price, but they can add up to big bucks if incurred often enough. Finally, frequent traders tend not to be tax efficient, and paying more taxes can greatly diminish returns.




Day trading is like gambling: you might win big on occasion, but you are much more likely to lose.  The few day traders who "win" on a regular basis tend to over-publicize their accomplishments, leading to the belief that day trading is a successful strategy.  This belief system is one of the reasons that women tend to be more successful investors than men.

Quote:

In a study of investors at a large discount-brokerage firm during the 1990s, Brad M. Barber and Terrance Odean of the University of California at Davis found that women investors outperformed their male counterparts.

What's their secret? Women are more likely to do research before they make an investment decision, rather than to gamble on a highflier. Once they decide on a stock, they're more likely to stick with it. They trade less often, Barber and Odean found, and the less often you trade the better your returns because you save money on commissions.

Barber and Odean found that men actually traded 45% more often than women -- a result they attributed to overconfidence.




If you find day trading entertaining and lucrative, great!  But recommending it as a sound investment strategy to others seems irresponsible to me.


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InvisibleLiquidkick
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Re: $50,000 to invest [Re: Veritas]
    #8642617 - 07/16/08 03:23 PM (4 years, 10 months ago)

Sigh...

You don't get it.  Whatever...i am done.  I don't care. i am done posting about this after this post.

WARREN BUFFET IS A LONG TERM VALUE INVESTOR. WHICH REQUIRE VALUATION.

You think this guy has the time to understand Company Valuations? 

I had to go through 2 courses modeling companies earnings and running sensitivity, scenario analysis to get a stock price of what a company is worth. 

Do you think he is going to dig through the 10K?  Scour the web for 15+ hours trying to see what new services and products a company is coming out and also value the company against its competitors?  You think he knows how to do discounted cash flows? Dividend discount models?  What are you going to do when you value a bank and find all the off balance sheet items that could affect the valuation?


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