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OfflineNalim
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7863177 - 01/11/08 03:10 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Ariocarpus fissuratus is known as the false peyote. So your list is pretty flawed. Or rather the nomenclature you use.


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Invisiblecactu
culture and magic
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Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7863361 - 01/11/08 04:09 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

hello look like is the dry seasom .
i love this thread,
i can fell almost quoting some times.
here is a good place for ´pictures of most all the types a variability of mexico of ariocarpus
http://server3.foros.net/viewtopic.php?p=1507&mforum=JardinMex
i have access to the central part of distributiun of the species listed that include some mamilarias , coriphathas and astrofytum , ariocarpus really love to see some serius study on the subject ,
let get this thread going and adding information i´´ love to help and focus on the difussa myth ....


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: cactu]
    #7864203 - 01/11/08 12:02 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I know Ariocarpus fissuratus is THE false peyote.


I list them differently.


I put A. fissuratus under "Lost peyotes" because I think it might have real psychoactive properties.

Quote:


I'd really love to see some serious study on the subject.





Me too!


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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OfflineNalim
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7864394 - 01/11/08 12:50 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

As I said: your nomenclature is flawed. I can call a lobelia for false peyote, that doesn't make it so.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Nalim]
    #7864425 - 01/11/08 12:59 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

well.

Then we will have to lump the psychoactive ones in with the false or non-psychoactive ones.

I'm only using these terms for this project.



"Peyote"- This is THE Peyote, and the only accepted Peyote of our modern culture.
"Lost Peyotes"- Truly Psychoactive Peyotes not currently accepted by our modern culture.
"Medicinal Peyotes"- Peyote with Medicinal, but not Psychoactive properties.
"False Peyotes"- Peyotes which only resemble Lophophora in appearce, but do not have Psychoactive or Medicinal properties.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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InvisibleEllisDSoxS
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: royer]
    #7865604 - 01/11/08 05:43 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Is that links for sources, or just links in general? If it's all links, that's a bit odd.

Interesting stuff. Any information about "white Peyote"? I forget the proper name, and all I really recall is that it had a higher mescaline content and is possibly extinct.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7865675 - 01/11/08 06:06 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

I have never heard about that...

If you have any more info, or you remember the botanical name, PLEASE let me know!


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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InvisibleKnoa6
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7866722 - 01/11/08 10:38 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

FarFromHere said:
I have never heard about that...




nor have I.
We should ask cactu.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7867145 - 01/12/08 12:26 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

ask who?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7867256 - 01/12/08 12:55 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

me neither white peyote sound like maybe the extremly heary peyote and can look more white but that will only make a variant of a specie and may be the name some indian give to this type of peyote, people claim that the best stuff is the one from san luis potosi in the area there is clearly diferences in the poblation of peyotes is most notice in the type of grow ,like fror exaple the hayry conditions and the lack of it , and the diferent color of flowers , the most usual pinkish and then diferent tone of pink and with stripes of more redish color.
if it have a high level of mescaline i can only thing in a true peyote and not another species i mean a lophophora, and not for example ariocarpus and the peyote here is calll the blue deer for it color the way they only look white is for the hairs, humm , will have to check this,, but for real the hairy ones are more active in my experience..
all my best


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: cactu]
    #7867318 - 01/12/08 01:17 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

O that's you.


Epithlantha micromeris is sometimes called "dark skinned peyote" even tho it is sort of whiteish due to it's covering of spines...

Perhaps the skin under the spines is a dark shade...

Does anybody know?

I'd still like to hear more about this "white peyote".

Is it Lophophora?

or another species?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7867364 - 01/12/08 01:36 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

That is interesting because it is suggested San Luis Potosi is outside williamsii range and is where diffusa grows; diffusa is said to be lacking/only trace amounts of mescaline.  I take this with a grain of salt and would believe anyone with with personal experience over this information.  Thank you cactu for your perspective, it is always valued. :thumbup:

I heard about the "white peyote" a good while ago.  I want to say it was supposed to be a very small population of whitish peyote growing in the mountains of New Mexico that was awfully potent.  I don't know if there's any truth to it.  There's a good chance it's a complete myth and even if it was true, chances are it would probably be extinct by now.  If it ever existed, it was probably just a distinct phenotype of williamsii due to its isolation.

Teo, don't do with this what you did with blue peruvianus.  No offense buddy.  Thanks.


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tradelist


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InvisibleKnoa6
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: plainswalker]
    #7868167 - 01/12/08 08:04 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

This is a good thread dealing with subjects I have been interested in as well, Teo. I may bioassay a few Ariocarpus fissuratus leaves off my plant for the cause.

It's not too big and I don't want to kill it either.


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7868398 - 01/12/08 11:05 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

i don´t think is safe to thread the commond names as real i mean they can bary from place to place, from taxonomist , to taxonomist, can be use as a direcction, but not too specific, the name of white and high level of mescaline is wierd ..to found that level of mescaline out sIde a true lophophora ..will be lovely to see some albino in nature after all we have seem many in artificial conditions but those can NOT live to much in nature.. maybe a variegated plant that can look more whitish , also i gueSs the variegated are more active aren´t day i don´t know where i read that.
ALL MY BEST.


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


Edited by cactu (01/12/08 11:31 AM)


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Invisiblecactu
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: cactu]
    #7868509 - 01/12/08 11:47 AM (6 years, 11 months ago)

-plainswalker said:
That is interesting because it is suggested San Luis Potosi is outside williamsii range and is where diffusa grows; diffusa is said to be lacking/only trace amounts of mescaline. I take this with a grain of salt and would believe anyone with with personal experience over this information. Thank you cactu for your perspective, it is always valued.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
well the lophophora williansi range is from san luis potosi to Texas with him variations and different form , and of course differences in the poblation of san Luis postosi and from example the north end Texas can and are different a bit , even in chemical make up also if this was not enough chemical balances vary in peyote due to type of soil,genetic,state of grow (young and old), and if you add the morphological variation, and different species, well you have a plethora Of possibilities, but let stick to the studies,
san Luis potosi is the souther range of l. williansi , the only place where l. difussa grow is in the state of queretaro, in a small area in between the population of Vizarrón, Bucareli and
Tolimán .
Lophophora fricii grow in Laguna Viesca en el estado de Coahuila, México.
Lophophora fricii forma albiflora grow close to Viesca en el Estado de Coahuila,
Lophophora jourdaniana is not a natural specie but a man made hibrid
Lophophora koehresii grow in laguna Río Verde, San Francisco, Las Tablas to las Palomas in the state of San Luis Potosí.THIS MAY THE ONE I´M FINDIN IN THOSE LOCATION LOOK MY TREAD IN THE GROW LOGS HUNTING THE BLUE DEER WIRIKUTA EPISODE 1.
Lophophora williamsii GROWS IN THE STATE of San Luis Potosí, Zacatecas, Durango, Chihuahua,Coahuila, Tamaulipas, Nuevo Leon and in Texas (EUA).also several varietys in all the localities tipical localities Huizache en el Estado de San Luis Potosí, México.
Lophophora williamsii var. caespitosa grow in a new place La Perdida en el Estado de Tamaulipas, México.
Lophophora williamsii var. decipiens is a doub specie is very similar to fricii grow in El Amparo, en el Estado de Coahuila.
Lophophora williamsii var. texana well grow in jupiter.
good pictures here and infohttp://www.cronicascactuseras.com/CactusCenterClub/Especiesygeneros/DrGood/peyote_lophophora_williamsii_01.htm
until know i consider that in lophophora are only two genus
williansis and difusa all others are some varietys of williansii and few from diffussa , many cactus can have diferent color of flowers as many other species do ,many where create in artificial conditions, and of course isolation and diferent climate and vegetation and soil can chage morfological appearence but is like dogs all are the same specie but yet so diferent , that why the genetic code is so plastid that can interact with the enviroment to active other genes and change morphological appeareance and after many generation create a new species, so until ¡then¡ i consider other variabilitis and names valid just in case of identification fron especific area, especific morphological appearence. flower color,alcalods ,etc, other then that they have the same chemical make up of course with the natural imbalance i mention before, but will be genetically compatible why i said this easy because they can interbreed with each other and make hybrid, i guees you can not hibridize l. difussa and l. williansii , if not it had alredy been done .
http://server3.foros.net/viewtopic.php?p=3754&mforum=JardinMex

all my best vibrations to you all


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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa  al lado se puede sentir  que valio  la pena  haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se  convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo


Edited by cactu (01/12/08 12:38 PM)


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Offlineplainswalker
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: cactu]
    #7868963 - 01/12/08 02:50 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

Doh. You're exactly right. I was mixing up San Luis Potosi and Queretaro in my head. Thank you for the correction.


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tradelist


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: plainswalker]
    #7869340 - 01/12/08 04:55 PM (6 years, 11 months ago)

This thread is starting off nicely.

I'll post a bunch of stuff later.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7880886 - 01/15/08 12:48 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Just got three "Peyotes" from S.S.-

Strombocactus disciformis

Epithelantha micromeris

Ariocarpus Fissuratus var. lloydii


I'll post pics soon!


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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OfflineTurntableJunky
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7880890 - 01/15/08 12:49 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:banbanban:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: TurntableJunky]
    #7880910 - 01/15/08 12:52 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Your starting drama.

I have not broken any rules in my last post.

You are off topic and attempting to start trouble.

Please stop.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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