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OfflineFarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~
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"Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti
    #7857444 - 01/10/08 03:04 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

"Peyotes, False Peyotes and other psychoactive Cacti"


Hi, I am Far From Here...

This is my first post here on the shroomy.

I have a project which I have begin working on- Cultivating the "Peyotes" and "False Peyotes" of Mexico and the USA.



I cataorgize the "Peyotes and Fasle Peyotes" as follows-

"Peyote"- This is THE Peyote, and the only accepted Peyote of our modern culture.

Lophophora williamsii

"Lost Peyotes"- Truly Psychoactive Peyotes not currently accepted by our modern culture.

(Suspects)
Ariocarpus fissuratus
Ariocarpus kotschoubeyanus
Coryphantha species
Lophophora diffusa
Mammillaria species
Pelecyphora strobiliformis
Strombocactus disciformis
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele
Turbinicarpus pseudopectinatus

"Medicinal Peyotes"- Peyote with Medicinal, but not Psychoactive properties.

(Suspect)
Epithelantha micromeris


"False Peyotes"- Peyotes which only resemble Lophophora in appearce, but do not have Psychoactive or Medicinal properties.

(Suspects)
Astrophytum asterias
Aztekium ritteri
Obregonia denegrii



(List due to change as we learn more about these cacti)


Here is some info on the Subject-






ARIOCARPUS RETUSUS SCHEIDW. - Cactaceae (Peyote Cimarron/Tsuwiri)

-------------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: This cactus has only little to do with the real Peyote. By some Indian tribes it's called Tsuwiri which means "False Peyote" since it has similar effects. By some tribes it's also called chautle or chaute. The Tarahumara Indians tell that Ariocarpus is stronger than Peyote and they use it in their rituals. Other Indian tribes like the Huichol's tell that Ariocarpus is a plant of the devil and that it's really dangerous to use. Some tribes tell that the impure man who searchs peyote finds the false peyote and goes mad, or at least has a bad trip. There are also other species of Ariocarpus which are ritually employed, for example Ariocarpus Fissuratus which is called Sunami and considered stronger than Peyote. If I find more informations I will cover these cactii's in a future release.
USAGE: I don't think it's a very good recreational drug, first we don't know a lot about it and second I think for any normal person it would be quite expensive to buy the needed amount of cactii's, but it may be worth trying if you have the oppurtunity. The cactus may be chewed fresh or dried, probably it may be also brewed in a tea. Start with low doses.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: The active principles of A.Retusus are several Phenylethylamine derivates: Hordenine, N-Methyltyramine (0.02%) and trace amounts N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenethylamine and N-methyl-4-B-phenethylamine. A substance called Retusine (3,3',4',7-tetramethoxy-5-hydroxytlavon) is also contained. An interesting thing about Ariocarpus retusus is that pharmacologically the alkaloid content is too low in order to be psychoactive.
EFFECTS: Not much is known, although the effects are reported to be similar to those of Mescaline.
DANGERS: Unfortunately I'm not able to tell about the dangers of the A.Retusus use, but I think there are some risks since the Huichol tell that this cactus is evil. I think Trichoreus Pachanoi or Lophophora Williamsii (Anhalonium Lewinii - Peyote) is the better and safer way to use cactii's, however I know people who want to try everything once.
SOURCES: This cactus, like peyote grows in rocky deserts, I was able to spot an exemplar at Londons Kew Gardens. You may also able to buy it at some greater gardener shop but I only suppose. Unfortunately Ariocarpus is a very, very slow growing cactus and needs years to mature.




CORYPHANTA MACROMERIS - Cactaceae (Donana)
--------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: C.macromeris is valued as medicine among a lot of Indian tribes.
USAGE: In order to eat the cactus the spines are removed and 8-12 of the fresh or dried cactiis are eaten on an empty stomach. They may be chewed or crushed and brewed for 1 hour as tea. One of my references says that approx. 1 kilogram of dried cactiis are needed in order to produce a psychoactive effect. The same reference suggests to perform an extraction. I really wonder why some reference says that 10 cactiis are needed and another says that a kilogram is needed.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: The active principle is Macromerine (L-alpha-3,4-dimethoxyphenyl-beta- dimethylaminoethanol), a substance with approx. 1/5 the gram potency of Mescaline. Coryphanta also contains trace amounts of: Normacromerine, N-formylnormacromerine, Tyramine, N-methyltyramine, Hordenine, N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenethylamin, Metanephrin and Synephrin. Other species of Coryphanta which contain Macromerine are: C.compacta, C.pectinada, C.elephantideus, C.runyonii, C.cornifera var. echineus. Species which contain the other minor alkaloids are: C.cornifera, C.durangensis, C.ottonis, C.poselgeriana and C.ramillosa. Other species of Coryphanta have also been reported as hallucinogens, for example C.palmerii. EFFECTS: The effects are reported to be very similar to those of Mescaline. Macromerine is a legal substances in most countries.
DANGERS: This substance should not be taken in high doses along with strong MAOI's. No other dangers are known.

ECHINOCEREUS TRIGLOCHIDIATUS - Cactaceae (Pitallito/Hikuri)
---------------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: The Tarahumara Indians consider both E.Triglochidiatus and E.salmdyckianus a so-called false Peyote. USAGE: Probably the cactus is chewed or brewed as tea however we have no reports of its exact usage.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: A tryptamine derivate has been reported.
EFFECTS: We have no reports of its effects, they may differ from those of Mescaline since the active principle is a tryptamine.
DANGERS: Little is known about this cactus, start with low doses.


EPITHELANTHA MICROMERIS - Cactaceae (Hikuli Mulato/Hikuli Rosapara)
----------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: This cactus is another so-called false Peyote of the Tarahumara Indians. Medicine men take Hikuli Mulato to make their sight clearer and permit them to commune with sorcerers. It is taken by runners as stimulant and 'protector,. The Indians also believe it prolongs life. Some botanists consider E.Micromeris a cactus of the species Mamillaria micromeris in a later phase of his life.
USAGE: Exact preparation is not known, probably the cactus may be chewed or brewed as tea.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: Alkaloids and triterpenes have been reported.
EFFECTS: Unfortunately we have no reports, they may be similar to mescaline since its a false Peyote however there was no mescaline reported.
DANGERS: We know very little about this cactus, start with low doses.


MAMMILLARIA SENILIS - Cactaceae (Wichuriki/Hikuli)
------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: Among the most important 'false peyotes, of the Tarahumara Indians are several species of Mammillaria, including: M.senilis, M.heyderii, M.craigii, M.grahamii, M.micromeris.
USAGE: Ritually the cactus is split open, sometimes roasted, and the central tissue is used. The top of the plant, divested of its spines, is the most powerful part. Probably a psychoactive tea may also be brewed.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-phenylethylamine has been isolated from M.heyderii, a species closely related to M.craigii.
EFFECTS: Deep sleep, during which a person is said to travel great distances, and brilliant colors characterize the intoxication.
DANGERS: Not known, start with small doses.




PACHYCEREUS PECTEN-ABORIGINUM - Cactaceae (Cawe/Wichowaka)
----------------------------- RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: Its a plant of many uses among the Indians, the Tarahumara who call the plant Cawe or Wichowaka use it for intoxication. The term Wichowaka also means 'insanity, in the Tarahumara language.
USAGE: The Indians take a drink made from the juice of the young branches as a narcotic. I wonder if brewing a tea from the cactus would work.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: Recently the substance 4-hydroxy-3-methoxyphenyl-ethylamine and 4 tetra-hydroisoquinoline alkaloids were isolated from P.pecten-aboriginum.
EFFECTS: It is reported to cause dizziness and visual hallucinations. DANGERS: Very little is known, probably quite safe but start with small doses if you want to try.


PELECYPHORA ASELLIFORMIS - Cactaceae (Peyotillo)
------------------------ RITUAL EMPLOYMENT: Although definitive proof must await further field work, there are suspicions that this round cactus may be valued in Mexico as a 'false Peyote,. It is locally known as Peyote and Peyotillo.
USAGE: Not reported, I suppose the cactus is chewed and swallowed, brewing a tea should also work.
ACTIVE PRINCIPLES: The cactus contains trace amounts of Mescaline (too few to be psychoactive) and little amounts of: Anhalidine, Anhaladine, Hordenine, N-methylmescaline, Pellotine, 3-dimethyltrichocereine, B-phenylethylamine, N-methyl-B-phenylethylamine, 3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenylethylamine, N-methyl-3,4-dimethoxy-B-phenylethylamine and 4-methoxy-B-phenylethylamine. Most of these alkaloids are also found in Peyote but in much greater concentration.
EFFECTS: If it really is psychoactive the effects probably are quite similar to those of Peyote.
DANGERS: Unfortunately not known, probably quite safe, start with small doses.







PLANTS CONFUSED WITH OR CALLED PEYOTE
Two factors have led to the confusion of various plants and the name peyote: (1) a similarity of appearance because of pubescence, a globose shape, or growth habit, and (2) a similar physiological effect or use for medicinal or religious purposes. In fact, most of the plants that are sometimes called "peyote" possess both of these characters.
Many alkaloid-containing cacti are commonly called "peyote" but they are not in the genus Lophophora, and, even though some of the alkaloids are the same, probably they have few or no physiological actions similar to the true peyote. Cacti that have at one time or another been called "peyote" or the Spanish diminutive "peyotillo" are:
Ariocarpus fissuratus—more frequently called "living rock" or "chautle" but also "peyote cimarr6n."
A. kotschoubeyanus—usually called "Pezuna de venado" or "pata de venado."
A. retusus—usually called "chautle" or "chaute."
Astrophytum asterias—surprisingly similar in appearance to Lophophora.
A. capricorne—also called "biznaga de estropajo."
A. myriostigma—called "peyote cimarr6n," "mitra," and "birrete de obispo" (bishop's cap or miter).
Aztekium ritterii—another small, globose cactus with superficial resemblance to Lophophora.
Mammillaria (Dolichothele) longimamma—sometimes called "peyotillo."
M. (Solisia) pectinifera
Obregonia denegrii
Pelecyphora aselliformis—commonly called "peyotillo" and sold as such in the native markets. Contains some of the alkaloids possessed by Lophophora, including small amounts of mescaline.
Strombocactus disciformis—similar in appearance to Lophophora and occurring in the same general area as L. diffusa.
Turbinicarpus pseudopectinata

Other plant families, including the Compositae, Crassulaceae, Leguminosae, and Solanaceae, also have representatives that occasionally are called "peyote." A member of the Compositae was first described as a type of peyote by the Spanish physician, Francisco Hernandez, in his early study of the plants of New Spain.[19] In his book he described two peyotes: the first, Peyotl Zacatecensi, clearly was Lophophora, whereas the other, Peyotl Xochimilcensi, apparently was Cacalia cordifolia, a Compositae which had "velvety tubers" and was used medicinally. Other sunflowers of the closely-related genus Senecio have also been called such things as "peyote del Valle de Mexico" and "peyote de Tepic."
"Mescal" is the correct name for the alcoholic beverage obtained from the century plant, Agave americana, but was also used by missionaries and officials of the Bureau of Indian Affairs for peyote. Possibly this was an attempt to confuse Congressmen and the public into thinking that peyote was an "intoxicant" similar to alcohol, but it just may have been a case of incorrect information perpetuated unwittingly.
The name "mescal beans" has also been applied incorrectly to peyote but actually is the common name of Sophora secundiflora of the Leguminosae. The beans of this plant contain cytisine, a toxic pyridine that causes nausea, convulsions, hallucinations, and even death if taken in too large quantities.[20] The colorful red beans have been used for centuries both in Mexico and the United States by the Indians for medicinal and ceremonial purposes, and sometimes the seeds of this desert shrub are worn as necklaces by the leaders of peyote ceremonies. The stimulatory and hallucinatory nature of these beans probably led to the confusion with peyote, especially when the latter occasionally was called "mescal." The probable relationship of the old mescal bean ceremony and the modern peyote cult also may have led to confusion by white men.

Coryphantha compacta



Epithalantha micromeris



Pelecyphora aselliformis




More info
Still more info[/url]








A few pics of "Peyotes and False Peyotes"-

Ariocarpus fissuratus




Strombocactus Disciformis


Turbinicarpus pseudopectinatus














My plan is to eventually have 3-5 of each of these so that I may preserve the species and the genetics. When they began to flower, I will send seeds out to the community for the cost of shipping, in order to propagate the species and preserve the genetics.

What I'm asking for is some help.

I've only grown cacti from seed once.

So I may indeed fail.(Though I will try again, and again)

Perhaps some of you will take up my quest in an attempt to preserve these beautiful and wonderful medicinal cacti.

If anyone has any suggestions of what species to add to my list, please let me know.

My priority are the "Peyotes", as their habitat is being destoryed the fastest, but eventually I would like to grow ALL suspected psychoactive or medicinal cacti.

I would like to make a comprehensive list of suspected psychoactive or medicinal cacti, please let me know if I’ve missed a species.

I simply cannot believe we overlook the potential of these amazing plants.

Trichocereus and Lophophora are the only cacti we hold in reverence, yet so many other beneifical cacti exist.

Lets get out there and find them!



Comprehensive list of Peyotes-

Ariocarpus agavoides
A. fissuratus
A. kotschoubeyanus
A. retusus
Armatocereus laetus
Astrophytum asterias
A. capricorne
A. myriostigma
Aztekium ritterii
Coryphantha compacta
C. elephantidens
C. macromeris
C. palmerii
C. rosea
Dolichothele longimamma
Epithalantha micromeris
Gymnocalycium spp.
Leuchtenbergia principis
Lophophora williamsii
Lophophora diffusa
Mammillaria spp.
Mammillaria craigii
M. grahamii
M. heydeii
Mamillopsis senilis
Obregonia denegrii
Pelecyphora aselliformis
P. pseudopectinata
Solisia pectinata
Strombocactus disciformis
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele
T. pseudopectinatus


Comprehensive list of Psychoactive Cacti (Other than those listed as "Peyotes")-


Carnegiea gigantea
Echinocactus spp.
Echinocactus grandis
E. grusonii
E. visnaga
Echinocereus salm-dyckianus
E. triglochidiatus
Epiphyllum spp.
Matucana madisoniorum
Neoraimondia macrostibas
Opuntia leptocaulis
Pachycereus pecten-aboriginum
Trichocereus species


Candidates for Ingestion-

Coryphantha species
Epithalantha micromeris
Mammillaria spp.
Pelecyphora aselliformis or P. pseudopectinata
Strombocactus disciformis
Turbinicarpus pseudomacrochele or T. pseudopectinatus




Research needs to be done into the actual effects of these cacti.

I say we debate over species and dosage, have people donate cacti and get somebody to ingest one and write a full report.

What do y'all think?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


Edited by royer9864 (01/10/08 06:25 AM)


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OfflineCoaster
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7857480 - 01/10/08 03:16 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

they kinda look like pinapples


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Coaster]
    #7857484 - 01/10/08 03:18 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

They taste like pineapples, coaster! :smirk:


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Offlineroyer
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7857709 - 01/10/08 06:22 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

please read the rules of the ethno forum and follow them please, no non sponsor links will be allowed!


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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7857821 - 01/10/08 08:31 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

hi teo, welcome back :crankey:

Quote:

Research needs to be done into the actual effects of these cacti.

I say we debate over species and dosage, have people donate cacti and get somebody to ingest one and write a full report.

What do y'all think?




i say take this to the psychedelic experience forum and debate it there.


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Offlineeve69
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7857947 - 01/10/08 09:25 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

It would be neat to have a safe place for some Ariocarpus - like a whole couple hillsides, but people couldn't know about them to keep them safe for as slowly as they grow. This is a study that therefore will be done in private. I would like to work with Coryphanta. Too many of them for a dose to make them a good rip off, but one can extract or condense qualities.


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...or something







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OfflineDr. uarewotueat
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7858007 - 01/10/08 09:45 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

btw teo, please dont insult me by denying this is u...
u made an almost identical post at the corroboree forums under the teot'z screen name...


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Edited by uarewotueat (01/10/08 11:54 AM)


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Offlinefelixhigh
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Dr. uarewotueat]
    #7858123 - 01/10/08 10:25 AM (6 years, 10 months ago)

:hehehe:


FH


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: felixhigh]
    #7859224 - 01/10/08 02:30 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I say take this to the psychedelic experience forum and debate it there.





Does this mean I should start another thread over there?

Because a huge part of them is gonna be about cultivation.

I plan on growing from seeds and I'm sure I'll have lots of questions that maybe somebody could help me with...


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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7861285 - 01/10/08 09:47 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I thought u where perma-banned Teo?
farfromhere is even your email address from your old account here, plus this is almost the same post you made under the "Teo" name in the botanical swap here.
I thought you would try a little harder to be incognito :shrug:

but at least there will be some action in the garden now!
Welcome back!


Edited by Knoa6 (01/10/08 09:48 PM)


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7861324 - 01/10/08 09:55 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

The mods let me back on.

But "Teo" is dead.

"Teo" was an idiot.

I'm older and wiser now and I hope people will just let "Teotzlcoatl" die.

Knoa I'd appreciate if you edited you post and remove all that stuff about that "teo" guy.

Please nobody bring "teo" up anymore, I want to start over...

Now does anybody have anything to say about CACTUSES?


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7861385 - 01/10/08 10:09 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

you will always be Teo to me...:happyheart:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7861391 - 01/10/08 10:12 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Well the cats out of the bag anyways...

Will the next person who posts please talk about cacti?



Edited by FarFromHere (01/10/08 10:13 PM)


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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7861404 - 01/10/08 10:14 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Knoa6 said:
but at least there will be some action in the garden now!
Welcome back!



yeah man tell me about it. I come in here all the time and there isnt shit for new threads much lately. the garden is like the only section I really use much in the shroomery.


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Yay people can run their mouth and belittle me on here and when I defend myself its not ok.  What a fucking great place this is huh??      Then people can give me bad ratings and when I return the favor  an admin deletes it for them.
  WELL FUCK YOU ASSHOLES
  I SEE HOW THIS PLACE IS


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: cpw1971]
    #7861418 - 01/10/08 10:17 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I'm walking on thin ice, I've got to be good and keep everyone happy, or I get the boot!


--------------------
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Edited by FarFromHere (01/10/08 11:10 PM)


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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7861483 - 01/10/08 10:29 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I can appreciate your enthusiasm Teo, and this is a good post IMO. Just stay off the "genetically superior true blue Trichocereus peruvianus" subject:rofl:


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7861731 - 01/10/08 11:05 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

A Blue T. peruvianus with long red spines that is extremely entheogenically potent?!?






PREPOSTEROUS!!! :smirk:









Back to the issue at hand...


Is anyone esle interested in this research and the effects of these mysterious cacti?


Edited by FarFromHere (01/10/08 11:09 PM)


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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7861797 - 01/10/08 11:13 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Astrophytum asteria has medicinal value to some tribes.


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OfflineFarFromHere
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: Knoa6]
    #7861810 - 01/10/08 11:16 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

Really?

Could you post some info or PM me a link?

That's interesting.

I thought it was a "False Peyote" only resembling Lophophora in appearace and not medicinal or entheogenic use.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb


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Registered: 04/25/07
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Re: "Peyotes and False Peyotes" and other psychoactive Cacti [Re: FarFromHere]
    #7861828 - 01/10/08 11:18 PM (6 years, 10 months ago)

I know you thought that.

I'll find a link sometime l8r I'm sleepy  :sheesha:


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