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Luddite said:
  Being a chemist with a BS in chemistry from a university 

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Reeeeeeeeeeeeally.....

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zorbman said:
I like how they brought out the fact that 'Loose Change' began as a work of fiction and then transformed into a documentary.

I also found it interesting how sloppy their research was initially. They have made numerous revisions to the film and evidently are working on more.

If you are really dedicated to truth why so many easily discovered mistakes?

Then I learned that their researcher, Jason Bermas, believes that the moon landing was faked. Then it all made sense. These people are cherry-picking information consistent with their theory and discarding the rest. They are no better than Dick Cheney in that regard. They began with a premise and collect only facts consistent with that premise.

These people aren't dedicated to finding the truth at all.
They are pushing propoganda.

Personally I'm tired of propoganda from both extremes in American politics.

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Do you know if these guys live in the United States?

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AG Tek said:
That show was pretty good. I was finally glad to see a some what "impartial" media.

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Annapurna1 said:

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AG Tek said:
That show was pretty good. I was finally glad to see a some what "impartial" media.

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about as impartial as fox noise...in debunking alex jones (whom i never believed much)..they came across as being pro-bush..missing the point that both alex jones and king georges' versions of events are based on the unproven assumption that 9/11 could not have been entirely the work of a few deranged lunatics...

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I've seen absolute indisputable proof that it was an airplane that hit the Pentagon and not a missile. On 9/11 I was in Crystal City, Virginia, which is a couple miles south of the Pentagon and I saw the huge plume of black smoke that could only have come from the jet fuel that a large jet airplane would have been carrying. I looked at the smoke numerous times that day for hours until I went home. Being a chemist with a BS in chemistry from a university, I know the smoke must have come from jet fuel.

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DieCommie said:
You are fooling yourself. There was no "pro-Bush vibe" at all. Discrediting anti-bush zealots is not "pro-Bush"

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wilshire said:
this is pretty good:

http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/911truth.html

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zorbman said:
Do you know how many hours of flying time they logged before the attacks?

You keep saying "a couple of hours in a Cessna".
How many hours of research have you done on this subject?

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lonestar2004 said:

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Luddite said:
Being a chemist with a BS in chemistry from a university 

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Reeeeeeeeeeeeally.....

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Several big name pilots and reputable people have estimated it'd take nearly 300 hours of simulation time and several dry runs before being able to do it successfully. Meanwhile, these simulators aren't available to the public and are in use twenty four hours a day by airliners and government agencies. You're going to tell me some islamic guys off the street did this?

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zorbman said:
There is already a thread on that topic.

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trippindad82 said:
And they just magically find the remains of the terrorists that somehow survived a plane crash into the building and a supposed pancake collapse that initiated on the very floor that their bodies smashed into.

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plus a virtually unscathed passport belonging to a terrorist hijacker on-board one of the planes that was flown directly into the world trade center

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zappaisgod said:
Like I said over and over again;  Trooferism is a religion.  No sense arguing with these people, they will eventually be consigned to the dustbin of history as an amusing footnote in mental health journals.  Like the guy who thought his toenails were extra-terrestrial beings(OLF).  They are equally rational.

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My pumpkin, I'm sorry you feel that way about me.

I just have a tough time believing that such a large number of coincidences and occurrences "with the lowest probability of happening" (even the NIST report states this and then ignores it) all took place on the same day.

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trippindad82 said:


I just have a tough time believing that such a large number of coincidences and occurrences "with the lowest probability of happening" (even the NIST report states this and then ignores it) all took place on the same day.

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And they just magically find the remains of the terrorists that somehow survived a plane crash into the building and a supposed pancake collapse that initiated on the very floor that their bodies smashed into.

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No it doesn't. Not at all. Link it. Do you deny that Islamic whackjobs hijacked two planes and plowed them into the towers? Do you deny that planes plowed into the towers at all? If you answer yes to either question you are living in an alternate reality. Have fun on Venus.

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I in no way claim that nothing other than that happened. I have seen the footage of the planes hitting the 2/3 buildings. What I do say is there is a conspiracy about is the denial of foreknowledge. I'm not saying that Bush and company planned and carried out these attacks themselves. I am saying that certain persons had foreknowledge of the attacks and used them to their advantage. I am saying that explosives were planted within the buildings. Video footage exists of firefighters and a building security guard talking about the sounds and pulses of the explosions. This is a fact that has been ignored by all three investigations. Then there are the put options placed on both airlines used in the attacks. Yes, they haven't been claimed, but they were placed none the less. Then there is the fact that we have ignored that most of the hijackers were of Saudi decent and yet who did we attack? This war of ours appears to be rooted in oil and NOT terrorism. If this truly were a war for terrorism, we would have to give up our friendship with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Yet, where do we stand with both of those countries? Then there is the fact that the USA PATRIOT ACT was written well ahead of Sept. 11 and was passed under scare of Anthrax. And who were the targets of every anthrax attack? Republicans??? And after investigation of the Anthrax, what grade and recipe was it? Certainly NOT the military.

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Perfect example. Of all the floors, which one is going to receive the least damage from the pancake effect. If you answered the first one to collapse, then you are correct. Why, you ask? Momentum. The first floor to collapse would do so slowly, as the building finally gave into fatigue and overcame static friction. The most damage would occur once momentum from the fall built up.

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zappaisgod said:No it doesn't. Not at all. Link it. Do you deny that Islamic whackjobs hijacked two planes and plowed them into the towers? Do you deny that planes plowed into the towers at all? If you answer yes to either question you are living in an alternate reality. Have fun on Venus.

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RandalFlagg said:
I remember going to a site of a very large 9/11 conspiracy group.  It proudly proclaimed that it had dozens of university academics on board who were tirelessly investigating 9/11 because they didn't believe the government's story.  I was expecting engineers, architects, physicists, etc.. on the list.  In other words, people who are educated in a field that has something to do with the whole thing.

But, what did I see when I looked at the credentials of the participating academics?  "Phd of Islamic Studies" , "Master of Fine Arts", etc..  Not one goddamned engineer or anything like that.

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Well, here you go:

http://www.ae911truth.org

And I wouldn't consider an architect who designs skyscrapers in earthquake prone northern california to be a whackpot. Maybe I'm wrong.

And Zappa, I love to be nuts. Nuts is far more fun than normal.

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trippindad82 said:


And Zappa, I love to be nuts. Nuts is far more fun than normal.

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Annapurna1 said:

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DieCommie said:
You are fooling yourself. There was no "pro-Bush vibe" at all. Discrediting anti-bush zealots is not "pro-Bush"

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on the contrary..discrediting anti-bush zealots is entirely pro-bush.. for the simple reason that shows like this necessarily paint all of king georges' political opponents with the alex jones brush...

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buddhahoodlum said:
People wake up 911 was an inside job.  If you don't believe me well then do your own research on the WTC #7 building that got demoed in front of our own two eye's.  And then you have the Pentagon attack that they won't even release all of the video's that the surveillance camera's took.  Do you really think that there was only one camera pointed at the site of the detonation?  And conveniently enough for them it doesn't even show you the plane in the one video they did release, if anything it's a global hawk that was remotely flown into it.  But don't just take it from me do your own research and let the truth set you free!!!!

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buddhahoodlum said:
But don't just take it from me do your own research and let the truth set you free!!!!

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buddhahoodlum said:
Oh god please don't attack my sexuality. Watch WTC#7 video over and over and you'll see that no fire could have caused that building to come down in that way. Can you guy's really not look at those video's and come to the same conclusion I did. If you can't then maybe you should get a seeing eye dog.

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zappaisgod said:
I finally saw most of it late last night/early this morning. First time I ever saw Alex Jones in action. Amazing. Like watching a guy lecturing a crowd of gambling addicts in an-all-you-can-eat Vegas buffet on his sure-fire method for beating the casinos. I'm going to say it.

Anybody who believes this guy's shtick is a fucking idiot and needs to prepare for the flight to Venus because Earth is not a safe place for them. There are mortal dangers here, like 5 gallon buckets half full of water. People that stupid drown in them regularly.

The debunkers were way too nice.

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Nychthemeronster said:
Where teh fuck is Osama?

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Nychthemeronster said:And why aren't we occupying Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq then?

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Nychthemeronster said:Where teh fuck is Osama?

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And why aren't we occupying Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq then?

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Nychthemeronster said:
Forgive my trolling...

If the official version is correct.
Where teh fuck is Osama?

And why aren't we occupying Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq then?

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Luddite said:
we are wanting a spacetime more large than minkowskian spacetimes.then could to think in the anti-desiiter universe.then could to obtains equations to curved hyperbolic manifolds,where the topology is non-trivial.spacetimes then are non-minkowskian.it is has dimension major than 4,with the reversal cpt,reastauring,the
breakdown of rotational invariance,doing appear a fifth-dimension to the 3D of space.Then the groupSO(3,2) does the transition to SO(.4,1)
then could to stabilation of vaccum a dynamically symmetry breaking in curved spacetime,where particles and antiparticles has different gravitational potential.generated by the distict metric of the curvatures of spacetimes. thence doeas appear a selfinteracting scalar fields with topology R^1 x S^1x S^1 xS^1 x S^1.then the metric of vaccum must be stable. sudy of quantum field theory in spacetime other than minkowski spacetime,is being better observed.the difference can to be a consequence of either a nontrivial topology or else curvaturethe configurations of the vertex of spacetime,generate
orbifolds,that are associated to double-periodic non-jacobian elliptic spaces.then the breakdown of rotational invariance( are linked to the hidden symmetris,that are renormalized by the conjugation of cpt and the invariance of lorentz is a subgroup generated by the enormalizations of the rotational invariance) then the relations of spacetimes to differents observers to events distants are given by sequences of events measureds by distict events,becoming the relations
continues of spacetimes.
care and de ditter gauge theories with propagating TORSION
the local poincare P10 gauge rotations and translations take place in the tangent
spaces to the spacetimes manifolds.we interpret the independence of matter fields from the tangent vectors as the necessity to use a nonlinear realizations of the P10 or S10 groups thus effectevely BREAKING the FULL SYMMETRY to the LORENTZ
GROUP.the LAGRANGIAN we choose is the S10 YANG-MILLS invariant with the spacetime metric expressed in terms of the translational part of the S10 NONLINEAR GAUGE FIELDS
have the propagating spin-conection(THAT IS EXPRESSED IN THE ROTATIONAL INVARIANCE TO SPACETIMES IN FOUTH_DIMENSION,WHERE THE R.I.BROKEN,IS
RESTAURED BY THE PRESENCE OF TORSION FIELDS OF CARTAN) interactions,the analogy with the chiral higgs mechanisms,instantonslike solutions,a possibility of gravitational repulsion due to the concompactness of the lorentz group.we also analyze the quantization of the theories with TORSION with special presence of the nonlinear realizations.we streess the possibility of obtaining a renormalizable theory is not quantized but is expressed in terms of a mean value of the quantization S10 nonlinear gauge field.
we are trying extend the GR using the gauge approach,through of einstein -cartan theories ,where P10 =T4 x )L6-or the semidirect product of the translational T4=R^
1,3 and lorentz L6=SO(1,3) subgroups) thus the tetrad e^a_u and the lorentz connection w^ab_u as the gauge potentials and the torsion @^a_uv=D_ue^a_v-
D_ve^a_u and the curvature R^a_buv=
[Q_uw_v + w_uw_v-(u<->v)]^a_b.
we consider T4 translational acting in the tangent affine spaces(and not as infinitesimal coordinate transformations)and show that one must use the nonlinear realization of the T4 symmetry in order to obtain a gravitational theory and not the "internal" P10 theory(spontaneous breakdown of T4 in our approach correspond to the trivial invariance of the ordinary matter firlds
non-linear gauge field

Z={w k_0^-1 tetha}
{0 0 }
gravitational particles -antiparticles asymmetry and the 4-dimensional yang-mills gauge symmetry.
a formulation of gravity based on the maximum four-dimension yang-mills gauge symmetry is studied.the theory pridicts that the gravitastional force inside (fermions)is different from inside antiparticles(antifermions).the difference could to the transitions cosmic, internal symmetry breaking in the matter,still,unstable,in the protovaccum,and was during the cosmic eviltion,through of the deformations
topologic of spacetimes,that is(PT,c,and C is generated by that breakdown of invariance of pt).moreover,a new gravitational long-range spin-force between two fermions is predited,in addition usul of the gravitational of newton.
the geometrical-topological foubdations of such a gravitational theory is the riemann-cartan geometry,in the which there is a TORSION( asymmetry between particles-antiparticles into spacetimes geometry-topologic.then fermions and antifermions has different quantities in the universe.and hypothesis that the gravitational forces between particles and antiparticles are differents.
then the riemann geometry is not a subtable and adequate foundations for physical spacetime.then the riemann be extended to the general riemann-cartan geometry which invilves a CARTAN TORSION TENSOR related to the gravitational spin-force.according to the yang-mills idea,thew gauge fields are intimately related to the invariance concept at every point in spacetime and they are postulated to the basic dynamical fields.however ,the metric tensor of spacetime is defined to be fuction of gauge fields.it must be stressed that the yang-mills gauge symmetry implies that,the gravitational lagrangian should be quadratic in the gauge field strenght.
why should one generalize the riemann geometry for physical spacetime?
the riemann geometry is not appropriate to accommodate spinor fields.need of the
covariance systems to think in gauge symmetry fields with GR

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bukkake said:
What is the parent company of The History Channel?

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Quote:

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GENERAL ELECTRIC --(donated 1.1 million to GW Bush for his 2000 election campaign)

Television Holdings:
* NBC: includes 13 stations, 28% of US households.
* NBC Network News: The Today Show, Nightly News with Tom Brokaw, Meet the Press, Dateline NBC, NBC News at Sunrise.
* CNBC business television; MSNBC 24-hour cable and Internet news service (co-owned by NBC and Microsoft); Court TV (co-owned with Time Warner), Bravo (50%), A&E (25%), History Channel (25%).
The "MS" in MSNBC
means microsoft
The same Microsoft that donated 2.4 million to get GW bush elected.

Other Holdings:
* GE Consumer Electronics.
* GE Power Systems: produces turbines for nuclear reactors and power plants.
* GE Plastics: produces military hardware and nuclear power equipment.
* GE Transportation Systems: runs diesel and electric trains.

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Quote:

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zappaisgod said:
I finally saw most of it late last night/early this morning. First time I ever saw Alex Jones in action. Amazing. Like watching a guy lecturing a crowd of gambling addicts in an-all-you-can-eat Vegas buffet on his sure-fire method for beating the casinos. I'm going to say it.

Anybody who believes this guy's shtick is a fucking idiot and needs to prepare for the flight to Venus because Earth is not a safe place for them. There are mortal dangers here, like 5 gallon buckets half full of water. People that stupid drown in them regularly.

The debunkers were way too nice.

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Quote:

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d33p said:

Quote:

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buddhahoodlum said:
Oh god please don't attack my sexuality. Watch WTC#7 video over and over and you'll see that no fire could have caused that building to come down in that way. Can you guy's really not look at those video's and come to the same conclusion I did. If you can't then maybe you should get a seeing eye dog.

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Maybe you should stop taking visual advice on a building collapse from your own seeing eye dog...

There was structural damage to #7. You didn't see that big chunk of the building missing?

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zappaisgod said:

Quote:

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Luddite said:
we are wanting a spacetime more large than minkowskian spacetimes.then could to think in the anti-desiiter universe.then could to obtains equations to curved hyperbolic manifolds,where the topology is non-trivial.spacetimes then are non-minkowskian.it is has dimension major than 4,with the reversal cpt,reastauring,the
breakdown of rotational invariance,doing appear a fifth-dimension to the 3D of space.Then the groupSO(3,2) does the transition to SO(.4,1)
then could to stabilation of vaccum a dynamically symmetry breaking in curved spacetime,where particles and antiparticles has different gravitational potential.generated by the distict metric of the curvatures of spacetimes. thence doeas appear a selfinteracting scalar fields with topology R^1 x S^1x S^1 xS^1 x S^1.then the metric of vaccum must be stable. sudy of quantum field theory in spacetime other than minkowski spacetime,is being better observed.the difference can to be a consequence of either a nontrivial topology or else curvaturethe configurations of the vertex of spacetime,generate
orbifolds,that are associated to double-periodic non-jacobian elliptic spaces.then the breakdown of rotational invariance( are linked to the hidden symmetris,that are renormalized by the conjugation of cpt and the invariance of lorentz is a subgroup generated by the enormalizations of the rotational invariance) then the relations of spacetimes to differents observers to events distants are given by sequences of events measureds by distict events,becoming the relations
continues of spacetimes.
care and de ditter gauge theories with propagating TORSION
the local poincare P10 gauge rotations and translations take place in the tangent
spaces to the spacetimes manifolds.we interpret the independence of matter fields from the tangent vectors as the necessity to use a nonlinear realizations of the P10 or S10 groups thus effectevely BREAKING the FULL SYMMETRY to the LORENTZ
GROUP.the LAGRANGIAN we choose is the S10 YANG-MILLS invariant with the spacetime metric expressed in terms of the translational part of the S10 NONLINEAR GAUGE FIELDS
have the propagating spin-conection(THAT IS EXPRESSED IN THE ROTATIONAL INVARIANCE TO SPACETIMES IN FOUTH_DIMENSION,WHERE THE R.I.BROKEN,IS
RESTAURED BY THE PRESENCE OF TORSION FIELDS OF CARTAN) interactions,the analogy with the chiral higgs mechanisms,instantonslike solutions,a possibility of gravitational repulsion due to the concompactness of the lorentz group.we also analyze the quantization of the theories with TORSION with special presence of the nonlinear realizations.we streess the possibility of obtaining a renormalizable theory is not quantized but is expressed in terms of a mean value of the quantization S10 nonlinear gauge field.
we are trying extend the GR using the gauge approach,through of einstein -cartan theories ,where P10 =T4 x )L6-or the semidirect product of the translational T4=R^
1,3 and lorentz L6=SO(1,3) subgroups) thus the tetrad e^a_u and the lorentz connection w^ab_u as the gauge potentials and the torsion @^a_uv=D_ue^a_v-
D_ve^a_u and the curvature R^a_buv=
[Q_uw_v + w_uw_v-(u<->v)]^a_b.
we consider T4 translational acting in the tangent affine spaces(and not as infinitesimal coordinate transformations)and show that one must use the nonlinear realization of the T4 symmetry in order to obtain a gravitational theory and not the "internal" P10 theory(spontaneous breakdown of T4 in our approach correspond to the trivial invariance of the ordinary matter firlds
non-linear gauge field

Z={w k_0^-1 tetha}
{0 0 }
gravitational particles -antiparticles asymmetry and the 4-dimensional yang-mills gauge symmetry.
a formulation of gravity based on the maximum four-dimension yang-mills gauge symmetry is studied.the theory pridicts that the gravitastional force inside (fermions)is different from inside antiparticles(antifermions).the difference could to the transitions cosmic, internal symmetry breaking in the matter,still,unstable,in the protovaccum,and was during the cosmic eviltion,through of the deformations
topologic of spacetimes,that is(PT,c,and C is generated by that breakdown of invariance of pt).moreover,a new gravitational long-range spin-force between two fermions is predited,in addition usul of the gravitational of newton.
the geometrical-topological foubdations of such a gravitational theory is the riemann-cartan geometry,in the which there is a TORSION( asymmetry between particles-antiparticles into spacetimes geometry-topologic.then fermions and antifermions has different quantities in the universe.and hypothesis that the gravitational forces between particles and antiparticles are differents.
then the riemann geometry is not a subtable and adequate foundations for physical spacetime.then the riemann be extended to the general riemann-cartan geometry which invilves a CARTAN TORSION TENSOR related to the gravitational spin-force.according to the yang-mills idea,thew gauge fields are intimately related to the invariance concept at every point in spacetime and they are postulated to the basic dynamical fields.however ,the metric tensor of spacetime is defined to be fuction of gauge fields.it must be stressed that the yang-mills gauge symmetry implies that,the gravitational lagrangian should be quadratic in the gauge field strenght.
why should one generalize the riemann geometry for physical spacetime?
the riemann geometry is not appropriate to accommodate spinor fields.need of the
covariance systems to think in gauge symmetry fields with GR

---

This may well be the finest piece of satire ever presented by a member of the Shroomery. Please tell me you didn't just steal it. PS, I think metric tensors should stay in Europe, give me feets and hinches. We don't need that Cosmoporolitan shit 'round here. That's what we have Clearasil for.

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We used metric in physics and chemistry when I went to college. I have no problem using both. Calculators take most of the work out of it. See these pharmaceutical graduates I got from Ebay? They have both oz and mls on them. When I gave one to my sister, she thought she couldn't use it when she saw the ml scale on it. I showed her the oz scale on the other side and she started her little brain working and figured she could handle it.

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Luddite said:
I've seen absolute indisputable proof that it was an airplane that hit the Pentagon and not a missile. On 9/11 I was in Crystal City, Virginia, which is a couple miles south of the Pentagon and I saw the huge plume of black smoke that could only have come from the jet fuel that a large jet airplane would have been carrying. I looked at the smoke numerous times that day for hours until I went home. Being a chemist with a BS in chemistry from a university, I know the smoke must have come from jet fuel. Before this, I've set a lot of things on fire to see how fast they would burn, to help me figure out what I would need to put out fires caused by these things. I've seen gasoline burn a lot of times, as well as, different solvents and other things. I've seen the same kind of thick black smoke come from burning a gallon of gasoline. It had to be jet fuel burning. A missile couldn't have carried that much fuel and paper doesn't produce that kind of smoke. Paper and wood usually produce a lighter colored smoke.

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buddhahoodlum said:
Oh god please don't attack my sexuality. Watch WTC#7 video over and over and you'll see that no fire could have caused that building to come down in that way. Can you guy's really not look at those video's and come to the same conclusion I did. If you can't then maybe you should get a seeing eye dog.

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