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kaniz said:


Go ahead, get 'fucked up', try and get the best visuals and have a fun old night : just be RESPONSIBLE while doing it. Dont go play in traffic, dont jump off a bridge, dont freak out when a cop runs by, dont creat a scene and draw attention to yourself, and dont think that doing drugs at school / work is a good idea. Be educated, be informed and most importantly - be safe.

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redgreenvines said:
a good rant
the walls of the trench are made of resistance.
sometimes good to be a wall
and divert the flow;
sometimes good to be fluid and move.
I like a good rant
very vital

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StreetFreak said:


I know this will piss a lot of people off (plz don't hate me yageman), but my God actually fucking think about shit and put stuff into perspective. By no means do I mean to anger or offend anyone, but you just have to think logically when it comes to shit like this. When a person denies the obvious and logical, they are doing nothing but cheating themselves.

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StreetFreak said:
3 people have seemed to ignore my post because of its length, go ahead and read it kiddies ya might learn something =)

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thedudenj said:
same could be said with sex people that have no self control and just have orgies fuck for fuck sake cause they have no control or care for their inner self just the desire to get off. as where people that have sex to express their affection for another and really put how they feel into someone with their body.

another a person that throws paint on a wall and says its art, compared to some one who takes time out and truely expresses what they want. tho if can be said tho the splattered paint on the wall is expression and very much art but well look what it shows... very similar to i just want to see pretty colors. or something of that such

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thedudenj said:
yeah he threw your name i dont know why either... any who these tools can be abused just as people abuse everything else in this world. if you taking it to get fucked up your probally a fucked up person and thats why they get fucked up its their aim and if you taking it for enlightenment or spirtual reason then thats what your intent is. the mind is a powerful thing

same could be said with sex people that have no self control and just have orgies fuck for fuck sake cause they have no control or care for their inner self just the desire to get off. as where people that have sex to express their affection for another and really put how they feel into someone with their body.

another a person that throws paint on a wall and says its art, compared to some one who takes time out and truely expresses what they want. tho if can be said tho the splattered paint on the wall is expression and very much art but well look what it shows... very similar to i just want to see pretty colors. or something of that such

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pasteface said:
good points all around, lets try to keep this positive and flowing

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thedudenj said:
sigh thats the point script. yeah alot of people that have orgies and are hoes have deep issues behind it all i know enough and am friends with enough. its harsh to watch someone throw themself down a a endless stairwell of a vicious cycle they perpetuate.

what i was saying was pretty much what yageman said like bruce lees quote.
"you poor water into a teacup it becomes the tea cup, you poor it into a bucket it becomes the bucket", or some such shit.



tho i might add someone with mutil personality disorder can’t have an orgy one drunken night, and then have expressive sex in a relationship or some one with deep issuses struggling to fight the downward and out ward spirl they created by being unable to coup with alot of negitive shit in their life.

and yes enlightenment cant be reached in one day its a bit of an ongoing process tho you kinda can someone can’t take drugs to get fucked up one day, and for enlightenment the next? tho its ussually the other way around due to someone reaching a block in their life and going backwards.

people build up wall depending on what happens to them and sometimes their hard to break down to see the word how it is

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smoke40s said:
This is pretty random, i have to go to class, and im bad at making sense. Summary: Lets get fucked up! or if you dont want to, dont.

I just wanted to point out the obvious, that a lot of you are becoming real assholes.
Psychedelics are drugs.
Everyone needs to chill out about "respecting" the drug or "getting fuk'd up"; its not your problem, and you just sound like a douchebag for talking about your spiritual enlightenment from mushrooms.
Its great that you are having spirtiual experiences and profound revelations from mushrooms, hopefully you are noticing a pattern in your findings(if you know what i mean).
But a lot of people are either over that, or just like to get messed up which is perfectly acceptable-- sometimes getting lost in an other dimension just to do some stupid crap is fun. Some people dont live by your book on drugs. If mushrooms are really almost religious for you practice tolerance and tolerate others religions. Personally I like going to parties on shrooms and getting a little drunk. Beer pong+mushrooms=perfect aim.

Stop pushing your spirituality on others.

Even if you do reach enlightenment you aren't going to be able to explain it to anyone else.


This is some food for thought
People regergetate random "facts" about drugs and what you should or should not do. For some reason Vicks and E is great. So is smoking cigarettes when you are drunk. Who the hell made this up?
Also the entire rave scene is completely fucked up.
Why do people do these things? Because someone else said it, so it must be true.

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms. The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

I was going to push my thoughts on how futile this kind of enlightenment is, but thats pretty hypocritical of me; so keep shrooming and find whats out there for yourself

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yageman said:

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StreetFreak said:


I know this will piss a lot of people off (plz don't hate me yageman), but my God actually fucking think about shit and put stuff into perspective. By no means do I mean to anger or offend anyone, but you just have to think logically when it comes to shit like this. When a person denies the obvious and logical, they are doing nothing but cheating themselves.

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Hmm I agree with mostly everything you said.

SO what in the world does this have to do with me?
Maybe my name threw you off?

------------------------------------------------------------

I dont push my experiences on other people, I simply talk about them in short hand.
If anything im entirely elusive about my actual sense of spirituality or what it means to be enlightened.

Did that make you want to rant some more for people "like me"?...lol
I dont use the traditions of the past and I dont think im some fucking shaman.


I think what you said made some good sense and most of this shit is totally unecessary to say especially to people like myself.

Why this seems to be directed at people like me just blows my mind.
I honestly dont think many people need to hear this from you because what you say is so damn obvious. Its common knowledge.
Some people may have learned this stuff at the shroomery, and some learned it themselves.

I have never once claimed to be enlightened.
You seem to have alot of opinions about enlightenment that you are trying to push on people? Hmmmmmm

Infact, you have inherently discounted many types of spirituality.

Now for something somewhat different------>
(a funny quote)----->"If you are a truly spiritual person you will not need a drug or entheogen to have a spiritual experience."

-Its statements like these that makes me think that you are one ironic and hypocritical dude.
These drugs are just tools. Maybe they help some people in this capacity?

So in other words alot of what you say is true.
After you mentioned me I just figured that I would go out of my way to let you know how pretentious you are, how you have misrepresented me(glad you didnt mention anyone else), and how useless this post really is to most people with a good head on their shoulders.

So "put that shit together" my logical friend you.

You would have seemed a bit less annoying to people like myself and probably others if you would have avoided mentioning myself of all people, and if you could have made your post a bit more concise and less ostentatious.

I would have prefered you stating the obvious in short hand by simply saying, "different strokes, different folks", instead of that bitchy and almost useless post you somehow directed at me.

"so put that shit together".....lol

Other than that, good post.
Im sure it will help some people put some things into perspective.

Sorry I farted all over your post.

You could have made even more sense though. As a start, dont mention the wrong person in a fucked up context.

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yageman said:

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StreetFreak said:
3 people have seemed to ignore my post because of its length, go ahead and read it kiddies ya might learn something =)

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3 people ay?
Who would do such a thing.
Lets name names!

You are one funny guy.........

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms. The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

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cpw1971 said:

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms. The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

---

as Terrence Mckenna said "psychedelics are like extra computer programs for your brain"
when you take a psychedelic you open up neural pathways you
dont use while straight.
you can therefore see things that you normally wouldn't see
be it trials from car lights or swirling color patterns or Jesus
Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time

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cpw1971 said:

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms.  The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

---

  as Terrence Mckenna said "psychedelics are like extra computer programs for your brain"
when you take a  psychedelic you open up neural pathways you
dont use while straight.
you can therefore see things that you normally wouldn't see
  be it trials from car lights or swirling color patterns or Jesus
  Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time

---

The person that discovered the DNA Double Helix was a female.  Two men stole it from her and published it.  Taking credit for something that they were trying to do but couldn’t.

Maybe they were tripping wile they were doing that.   This is another thing that bugs me, people try to act like psychedelics aid with real life complex intellectual concepts when in reality there is no evidence.  In fact there is more evidence to the contrary.  Aldous Huxley, Terrance Mckenna ect...  Don’t get me wrong I enjoy their work, it’s fascinating and fun to read.  But these people have contributed nothing to modern day scientific theory/

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thedudenj said:
i think yage man comes off good way better then i come off at least text doesnt do me any justice.

any who i have found to give some respect to baptist with soul i went to A service and felt something drugs will never touch. i dunno if it was A holy spirit, or what im more certain it was something like since all of those people had the spirit of love with them and were giving that vibe and all of their spirits came together and formed one spirit made up of theirs that was cast over everyone. i perceived metaphysical energy in such a way that it was like amanita and ayahuasca, it was astounding as it was a profound spiritual experience, after the service a preacher woman came up to me and told me how she could feel that gods presence was with me and a bunch of stuff about how i have this important purpose and to be careful of who i associate myself with, she said alot it was hard to catch all of it and she really went on about how she could feel the spirit with me. I was engulfed in an ever loving spirit of peace and harmony and grace and gratitude.

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script said:

Quote:

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cpw1971 said:

Quote:

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms.  The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

---

  as Terrence Mckenna said "psychedelics are like extra computer programs for your brain"
when you take a  psychedelic you open up neural pathways you
dont use while straight.
you can therefore see things that you normally wouldn't see
  be it trials from car lights or swirling color patterns or Jesus
  Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time

---

The person that discovered the DNA Double Helix was a female.  Two men stole it from her and published it.  Taking credit for something that they were trying to do but couldn’t.

Maybe they were tripping wile they were doing that.   This is another thing that bugs me, people try to act like psychedelics aid with real life complex intellectual concepts when in reality there is no evidence.  In fact there is more evidence to the contrary.  Aldous Huxley, Terrance Mckenna ect...  Don’t get me wrong I enjoy their work, it’s fascinating and fun to read.  But these people have contributed nothing to modern day scientific theory/

---

  no shit man I didn't know
  ok then heres something that happened to me while on shrooms that wasn';t spiritual at all but something I would't normally think of.....
  I was peaking and kicking a ball and it got stuck way up in a tree. my friend who wasn't tripping started to climb the tree. I looked at the tree and noticed that its branches looked like a spiral staircase. I started running up the stairs and made it to the ball by the time my friend was 1/4 the way up.
  I would not have seen it either if I were sober.
  also I wrote plenty of songs while tripping
  video games are funner too

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script said:

Quote:

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cpw1971 said:

Quote:

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms.  The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

---

  as Terrence Mckenna said "psychedelics are like extra computer programs for your brain"
when you take a  psychedelic you open up neural pathways you
dont use while straight.
you can therefore see things that you normally wouldn't see
  be it trials from car lights or swirling color patterns or Jesus
  Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time

---

The person that discovered the DNA Double Helix was a female.  Two men stole it from her and published it.  Taking credit for something that they were trying to do but couldn’t.

Maybe they were tripping wile they were doing that.   This is another thing that bugs me, people try to act like psychedelics aid with real life complex intellectual concepts when in reality there is no evidence.  In fact there is more evidence to the contrary.  Aldous Huxley, Terrance Mckenna ect...  Don’t get me wrong I enjoy their work, it’s fascinating and fun to read.  But these people have contributed nothing to modern day scientific theory/

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cpw1971 said:

Quote:

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script said:

Quote:

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cpw1971 said:

Quote:

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smoke40s said:

On aside:
What you get from mushrooms comes from your brain, not the mushrooms.  The spiritual experiences you are getting isn't the shrooms, its still your brain.

---

  as Terrence Mckenna said "psychedelics are like extra computer programs for your brain"
when you take a  psychedelic you open up neural pathways you
dont use while straight.
you can therefore see things that you normally wouldn't see
  be it trials from car lights or swirling color patterns or Jesus
  Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time

---

The person that discovered the DNA Double Helix was a female.  Two men stole it from her and published it.  Taking credit for something that they were trying to do but couldn’t.

Maybe they were tripping wile they were doing that.   This is another thing that bugs me, people try to act like psychedelics aid with real life complex intellectual concepts when in reality there is no evidence.  In fact there is more evidence to the contrary.  Aldous Huxley, Terrance Mckenna ect...  Don’t get me wrong I enjoy their work, it’s fascinating and fun to read.  But these people have contributed nothing to modern day scientific theory/

---

  no shit man I didn't know
  ok then heres something that happened to me while on shrooms that wasn';t spiritual at all but something I would't normally think of.....
  I was peaking and kicking a ball and it got stuck way up in a tree. my friend who wasn't tripping started to climb the tree. I looked at the tree and noticed that its branches looked like a spiral staircase. I started running up the stairs and made it to the ball by the time my friend was 1/4 the way up.
  I would not have seen it either if I were sober.
  also I wrote plenty of songs while tripping
  video games are funner too

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thedudenj said:
so what if your haveing one with out the aid of drugs then take drugs does that then discredit it? you cant say all ones on drugs arnt really such as shaman's. btw shamans take drugs to better the world

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thedudenj said:
so what if your haveing one with out the aid of drugs then take drugs does that then discredit it? you cant say all ones on drugs arnt really such as shaman's. btw shamans take drugs to better the world

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StreetFreak said:

I have to disagree. Not going to go into detail but the truth can be found with some research. Scientists using others research given to them by another scientist working on the project, and then creating a new hypothesis and ideas from it are a different ball game than stealing.

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thedudenj said:
This is another point I was hinting at. TheThis is another point I was hinting at. The authentic sober spiritual experience is much more profound than any drug can ever do. And thats because its real, not an effect of some drug that seems real.

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StreetFreak said: It is quite possible to have a real spiritual experience under the effects of a drug, just like any other feeling, but in most cases is the drugs effects.

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script said:

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StreetFreak said:

I have to disagree. Not going to go into detail but the truth can be found with some research. Scientists using others research given to them by another scientist working on the project, and then creating a new hypothesis and ideas from it are a different ball game than stealing.

---

Watson & Crook knew DNA had a nitrogenous base, phosphate group, and a sugar dextrose but they had no clue how it all fit together.

It was Rosalind Franklin that DISCOVERED the double helix through X-ray crystallography. Maurice Walkins (a colleague of Franklins) took her images and calculations and gave them to Watson & Crook.

She got no credit; the double helix wasn’t some psychedelic vision. It was a fucking x-ray image, clear as day (well not that clear). And the person that discovered it has virtually zero recognition for it.

---

Heres a few quotes from wiki for ya to ponder on.

The photo, shown by Maurice Wilkins to Francis Crick, was the critical evidence that led to the confirmation of the postulated double helical structure of DNA, published in a series of five articles in the 1953 issues of the journal Nature.[4] Franklin and Raymond Gosling's own publication in the same issue of Nature was the first publications of this more clarified X-ray image of DNA.

On the completion of their model, Francis Crick and James Watson had invited Maurice Wilkins to be a co-author of their paper describing the structure.[81][82] Wilkins turned down this offer, as he had taken no part in building the model.[83] Maurice Wilkins later expressed regret that greater discussion of co-authorship had not taken place as this may have helped to clarify the contribution the work at King's had made to the discovery.[84] There is no doubt that Franklin's experimental data were used by Crick and Watson to build their model of DNA in 1953 (see above). That she is not cited in their original paper outlining their model may be a question of circumstance, it would have been very difficult to cite the unpublished work from the MRC report they had seen.[85] It should be noted that the x-ray diffraction work of both Wilkins and William Astbury are cited in the paper, and that the unpublished work of both Franklin and Wilkins are acknowledged in the paper.[1]Franklin and Raymond Gosling's own publication in the same issue of Nature was the first publications of this more clarified X-ray image of DNA.

Photo 51 is the name given to an X-ray diffraction image of DNA taken by Rosalind Franklin in 1952[1] that was critical evidence[2] in identifying the structure of DNA.[3] The photo was taken by Franklin while working at King's College London in Sir John Randall's group.



By the time she published a more clarified image of what Watson and Crick saw, the two had published their own model of the double helix in the same issue.

Tell me if you know this is a double helix from this picture, because Franklin sure as hell didn't.

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thedudenj said:
the thing about as shaman is if there a true shaman is that they can give you simply water and you still have that same trip. the shamans greatest tool is the placebo and i have made others trip plenty of times with out drugs at all or such low levels that it shouldnt produce any effect. so if i can do it theres no doubt what a shaman with years behind him can do. i have only practiced it for 2-3 years tho i have always had the ablity and capacity it just took me some time to rememeber who i was i got to caught up in letting others create a false reality for for me

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StreetFreak said:

Quote:

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script said:

Quote:

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StreetFreak said:

I have to disagree. Not going to go into detail but the truth can be found with some research. Scientists using others research given to them by another scientist working on the project, and then creating a new hypothesis and ideas from it are a different ball game than stealing.

---

Watson & Crook knew DNA had a nitrogenous base, phosphate group, and a sugar dextrose but they had no clue how it all fit together.

It was Rosalind Franklin that DISCOVERED the double helix through X-ray crystallography. Maurice Walkins (a colleague of Franklins) took her images and calculations and gave them to Watson & Crook.

She got no credit; the double helix wasn’t some psychedelic vision. It was a fucking x-ray image, clear as day (well not that clear). And the person that discovered it has virtually zero recognition for it.

---

Heres a few quotes from wiki for ya to ponder on.

The photo, shown by Maurice Wilkins to Francis Crick, was the critical evidence that led to the confirmation of the postulated double helical structure of DNA, published in a series of five articles in the 1953 issues of the journal Nature.[4] Franklin and Raymond Gosling's own publication in the same issue of Nature was the first publications of this more clarified X-ray image of DNA.

On the completion of their model, Francis Crick and James Watson had invited Maurice Wilkins to be a co-author of their paper describing the structure.[81][82] Wilkins turned down this offer, as he had taken no part in building the model.[83] Maurice Wilkins later expressed regret that greater discussion of co-authorship had not taken place as this may have helped to clarify the contribution the work at King's had made to the discovery.[84] There is no doubt that Franklin's experimental data were used by Crick and Watson to build their model of DNA in 1953 (see above). That she is not cited in their original paper outlining their model may be a question of circumstance, it would have been very difficult to cite the unpublished work from the MRC report they had seen.[85] It should be noted that the x-ray diffraction work of both Wilkins and William Astbury are cited in the paper, and that the unpublished work of both Franklin and Wilkins are acknowledged in the paper.[1]Franklin and Raymond Gosling's own publication in the same issue of Nature was the first publications of this more clarified X-ray image of DNA.

Photo 51 is the name given to an X-ray diffraction image of DNA taken by Rosalind Franklin in 1952[1] that was critical evidence[2] in identifying the structure of DNA.[3] The photo was taken by Franklin while working at King's College London in Sir John Randall's group.



By the time she published a more clarified image of what Wilkins and Crick saw, the two had published their own model of the double helix in the same issue.

Tell me if you know this is a double helix from this picture, because Franklin sure as hell didn't.

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script said:Wiki is far from a credible source on this type of material/ I take only the most basic facts from wiki as factual.

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kimikiri said:
Anyone who attacks Wiki attacks the community in general...

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kimikiri said:
Anyone who attacks Wiki attacks the community in general...

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script said:

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kimikiri said:
Anyone who attacks Wiki attacks the community in general...

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Wiki is not a credible source on anything other than the internet. No educational establishment would accept it as a credible source/

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script said:
I’m getting tired, do you really need this explained to you? Do you really need to know how important these “educational institutions” are to the advance of science? (The topic you interjected into.)

Educational institutions have authority because it is vital that they have credible information/. Especially for sciences, the cost and resources involved in lab equipment, personnel, research all depend that the information you currently have is correct/ If it’s not, than your just pissing in the wind and spending a ton of money doing it. So Universities have learned that having credible information is actually quite valuable. Maybe you will realize it one day/

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script said:
look man, the fact that the community runs everything really is a moot point. Community has different levels, the educational system is largely run by the intellectual community wile wiki isn’t. I could go on wiki and write entries with a bias just as anyone else can/

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script said:
I would if I had a scanner, I don’t use internet resources very often/

I edited my original post.

How can you read that and not see it. Because wiki tried to go back and justify the fact that it would have been "difficult" to NOT completely undercut this bitch?

Either way, those dudes DID NOT discover the double helix. It's all right their/ that bitch discovered it and they used it, putting their motives and “honesty” aside/ She still discovered it.

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smoke40s said:
I am pretty sure wiki being a factual source is completely relevant to the topic at hand...

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StreetFreak said:

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script said:
I would if I had a scanner, I don’t use internet resources very often/

I edited my original post.

How can you read that and not see it.  Because wiki tried to go back and justify the fact that it would have been "difficult" to NOT completely undercut this bitch?

Either way, those dudes DID NOT discover the double helix.  It's all right their/ that bitch discovered it and they used it, putting their motives and “honesty” aside/ She still discovered it.

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I suggest you read the sections Contribution to the model of DNA and Recognition of her contribution to the model of DNA at this site. Whether you think wiki is kewl enough or not. Discovering that something exists and actually modeling it are two totally different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosalind_Franklin#Contribution_to_the_model_of_DNA

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smoke40s said:
I am pretty sure wiki being a factual source is completely relevant to the topic at hand...

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Sorry to say man, but your topic has been beat dead.

---

I understand what you’re saying.  I would credit them for the bulk of the DNA model.  But not for the DNA double helix, that I would credit the chick for, and I feel like they wrongfully took it and tried to make like it was their own discovery.

The fact that she wasn’t cited in their original paper is shiesty as hell/  Not cool and you know this.  The rest is up to interpretation I guess.  I know there are people of each opinion.

“Because Rosalind Franklin had died in 1958 she was not eligible for the Nobel Prize subsequently awarded to Crick, Watson, and Wilkins in 1962.[88] The award was for their body of work on nucleic acids and not exclusively for the discovery of the structure of DNA”

Hmm, I wonder why they didn’t get the Nobel prize for the structure of DNA?............    Ok, im done

Be all this as it may, can we both agree that McKenna’s quote:

“Just ask the guy that Discovered the Double Helix of DNA and won a Nobel prize, he was tripping at the time”

Is not true?  Which is the whole reason I brought this shit storm upon myself

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StreetFreak said:

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yageman said:

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StreetFreak said:


I know this will piss a lot of people off (plz don't hate me yageman), but my God actually fucking think about shit and put stuff into perspective. By no means do I mean to anger or offend anyone, but you just have to think logically when it comes to shit like this. When a person denies the obvious and logical, they are doing nothing but cheating themselves.

---

Hmm I agree with mostly everything you said.

SO what in the world does this have to do with me?
Maybe my name threw you off?

------------------------------------------------------------

I dont push my experiences on other people, I simply talk about them in short hand.
If anything im entirely elusive about my actual sense of spirituality or what it means to be enlightened.

Did that make you want to rant some more for people "like me"?...lol
I dont use the traditions of the past and I dont think im some fucking shaman.


I think what you said made some good sense and most of this shit is totally unecessary to say especially to people like myself.

Why this seems to be directed at people like me just blows my mind.
I honestly dont think many people need to hear this from you because what you say is so damn obvious. Its common knowledge.
Some people may have learned this stuff at the shroomery, and some learned it themselves.

I have never once claimed to be enlightened.
You seem to have alot of opinions about enlightenment that you are trying to push on people? Hmmmmmm

Infact, you have inherently discounted many types of spirituality.

Now for something somewhat different------>
(a funny quote)----->"If you are a truly spiritual person you will not need a drug or entheogen to have a spiritual experience."

-Its statements like these that makes me think that you are one ironic and hypocritical dude.
These drugs are just tools. Maybe they help some people in this capacity?

So in other words alot of what you say is true.
After you mentioned me I just figured that I would go out of my way to let you know how pretentious you are, how you have misrepresented me(glad you didnt mention anyone else), and how useless this post really is to most people with a good head on their shoulders.

So "put that shit together" my logical friend you.

You would have seemed a bit less annoying to people like myself and probably others if you would have avoided mentioning myself of all people, and if you could have made your post a bit more concise and less ostentatious.

I would have prefered you stating the obvious in short hand by simply saying, "different strokes, different folks", instead of that bitchy and almost useless post you somehow directed at me.

"so put that shit together".....lol

Other than that, good post.
Im sure it will help some people put some things into perspective.

Sorry I farted all over your post.

You could have made even more sense though. As a start, dont mention the wrong person in a fucked up context.

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I didn't say you push your experiences onto others.

A connection between you and enlightenment did not come to mind until your post.

Why you think this entire post was directed at you I don't know lol.

Your name was mentioned because seeing how you reply to posts over the past few months I expected you to either get angry or "fart" on my post because of its nature, and was mentioned in reference to an earlier part in my post about people thinking their trips mean so much more than the other average joe.

You occasionally hint at having learned or experienced something really great from ayahuasca, but blatantly state and refuse to even begin to hint or describe what that is. Its like fishing for a conversation, and right before the fish bites pulling the hook out of the water. This is also why you're name was mentioned.

You have came off as an arrogant person in a lot of posts. Maybe text just doesn't do you justice.

It is nice though that you think this post was directed at you, but it wasn't. Maybe 1-2 sentences.

I don't know what you're really like or what other people like you are like, but I do know that you occasionally shit on peoples post and come off as an angry individual as a result of reading ones post, that is why I said "please dont hate me yageman". Figure of speech for don't get angry and talk shit about my post.

And yes I have discounted many types of religions, and as you would put it "honestly dont think many people need to hear this from you because what you say is so damn obvious."

Discounting a religion because it is based off of basically tripping out does not mean that I still don't respect the people that follow that religion or their uses, so I fail to see why this makes me hypocritcal. Maybe you failed to fully understand what that statement you quoted meant lol.

Sure drugs can be used as "tools," but after all the people that have only ever talked to God while on a trip, you have to conclude that generally a spiritual psychedelic experience is nothing more than the drug enacting a spiritual feeling, combined with visions, ideas, exaggerated feelings, and beliefs. So in most cases the spiritual aspect is just an effect of a drug, how does that make the experience valid if in most cases it is a delusion. For people that use entheogens for a sole purpose of spirituality then that is indeed their true spiritual experience because its their religion, they don't know any different. But for people that are Christians and the like, where their religion doesn't involve the use of entheogens, how can they truly believe its an authentic spiritual experience. I guess CEV combined with intense emotions do a lot on a persons psyche.

It is quite possible to have a real spiritual experience under the effects of a drug, just like any other feeling, but in most cases is the drugs effects.

Why a true believer of a Christian nature or one of the like that doesn't involve the use of entheogens believes they would need or have to take this to be spiritual is beyond me. It lies within. Maybe they do help some in that capacity though, or maybe they fill their mind with delusional thoughts.

Don't get me wrong, you make a lot of good posts yageman, and help a lot of people on this forum with your knowledge. All but 2 sentences of this post had nothing to do with you.

Sober enlightenment and tripping out "enlightenment" are very different.

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