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 leery11
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Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,227
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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 Re: Important to think about Hell  [Re: shane]
#6747062 - 04/04/07 05:42 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shane said:
-The NIV changed the words 'faith of Christ' to 'faith in Christ' which completely changes the meaning of a very important phrase in more than a few instances. Christ having faith in us (as if to choose us), not the other way around. Of course the KJV isn't perfect. No version is. It's a good thing you can get a concordance and look up original greek and hebrew text.
-Christ said to Judas that it would have been better if he had not been born than to betray Him. If he was going back to a death of nothingness, or the state of not being born, then it's all the same isn't it? Fire doesn't purify in the Bible, it judges and represents the sacrafice of Christ (in terms of burning sacrafices).
-look at it from my point of view: hell is something (fairly) real to me, and i wanna tell people for their own sake, not for the sake of scaring them into a cult. i'm scared. that's just the way it is. if it is scares you that's the result of reality and not just a mode of pointless assimilation. Are you gonna not believe there's terrorism and insanity and murder in the world because it scares you? Some people are gonna not believe because they don't want to, but that doesn't make it go away. Not you specifically, but that's a common response.
I'm interested in taking a look at that hermeneutics book now.
Why are two opiates in your avatar if I might ask?
Okay here's the thing, mortality scares the shit out of humans. Social institutions are vampirse that exploit this fear in order to gain submission to their authority.
Just as you are terrified of hellfire and a judgemental God, so much so is the woman who shakes salt over her shoulders afraid of getting lepresy by being mauled by a black cat. Look at the dark ages, the Bible was ultimate authority, NOT, the Church was, the Church kept people completely superstitious, nowhere did Christ rule, it was only corruption. It was never about Christ's love, it was about adherence to a murderous authority, and the only way they could do this is to weave the fear of mortality deep into the souls of every follower, constantly reminding them not only that they can be heinously tortured by the Church, but also by GOD HIMSELF, a torture that never ends, ultimately yielding to the Church ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY OF GOD and ABSOLUTE POWER that is UNQESTIONABLE because to question their authority is to have the wrath of the Church upon you, but also to have the wrath of an even fiercer and diaboloical God upon you
nowhere in their actions is anything about Christ used. Christ was a political subversionist, possibly a messiah, possibly maybe even God himself, who knows, that is up to him to prove to us...... but as soon as the authorities murdered Christ, in order to quell his rebellion they used his name, his image, his ideas, and state endorsed them, stamped the Roman seal of approval on, and then subverted his words enough so that people were busy fretting about a heaven in the AFTER life and avoiding a DEATH in the afterlife, rather than actualizing the KINGDOM OF GOD IN THE ETERNAL PRESENT MOMENT BY LOVING ONE ANOTHER AND ATTAINING SUPREME UNITY WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT so then effectively Christianity became, as soon as the term Christian was invented, a false religion used by authority, created by authority, and propogated by "illuminati" into this day and age wherein now they are still using the message of a political subversionist to blind many into comitting acts of evil, and terrifying a good few people on the sidelines into blind obedience by deferring the powers of hell into their minds.
This is not true this is just my opinion...... but the fact that I can even write it is curious to me....
\
Imagine that Christ is a gnostic, imagine he is trying to show people to NOT be dogmatic, to NOT worship a scripture, and imagine that his message was that "The kingdom of God is within you/at hand" ..... BE HERE NOW...... open your third eye ("if thine eye is single thy body is full of light" imagine he was liberating souls in the present moment and then they debunked all his valid teachings into some sort of lie that meek and meager faith in a crucified deity and submission to lifeless and inhuman rituals would provide enlightenment... NO they weren't even after enlightenment, they are just following Christ to be saved.... SAVED? Saved from what, from whom? From eternal torture.... the message of salvation only exists because of the duality of damnation, it may not be so that we are under death sentence by God and that faith in a concept is the only thing to free us.... this is up to the Christians to attest for whether or not Jesus yields transpersonal states of unconditional love, I would like him to enter my life if that is the case, as all existence without love can be considered hell
but no no no it is about freedom from DAMNATION and it is so clearly the same thing as a king saying FOLLOW ME OR DIE that really it just makes sense that authority decided to call its tyranny God by writing the Bible a certain way
If Jesus is who they say, then may his light and compassion liberate all sentient beings on this planet from suffering and the causes of suffering that we may all be pardoned and attain supreme grace.
If not, then may the lie be forever destroyed......
I am just compiling my complaints and the complaints of others. If you had never read the Bible but instead the Bagvad Gita then this would all be a moot point wouldn't it, what about them? I understand the terror of hell and the hopelessness of being faced by an evil God that does not care about you and is trying to incessantly trick you so that you pick the wrong path, and abandoning all your reasoning....
the flip side is simple:
Jesus loves you.
I hope that is true. If so, why is all the ugliness omnipresent throughout his legacy? The devil may have invented the very idea of the devil, the devil may just be authority.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
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leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,227
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: leery11]
#6747074 - 04/04/07 05:46 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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If Jesus is real I would also gladly bask in his love.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
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shane
Stranger
Registered: 01/09/06
Posts: 305
Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: mikemushroom]
#6747079 - 04/04/07 05:48 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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you can go to biblegateway.com and compare all the different versions in different languages and whatnot. -http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html
-http://www.greekbible.com/index.php
-http://www.biblegateway.com/
those three sites are perfect and have all you need in terms of studying and comparing
-"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." galations 2:16
-"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
so you can trace this back to the original greek fairly easily.
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Statements concerning my personal actions and habits, and life in general are not to be taken seriously
go to familyradio.com
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,110
Last seen: 18 days, 15 hours
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: shane]
#6747236 - 04/04/07 06:31 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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The KJV is based on the correct underlying greek manuscripts. The modern translations are simply terrible and they are based on different manuscripts. No translation is perfect, but the KJV is in comparison MUCH better than ANY modern translation.
We have computers today, and free programs, we can always check the underlying greek/hebrew to make sure of the translation.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,110
Last seen: 18 days, 15 hours
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: fivepointer]
#6747257 - 04/04/07 06:39 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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The Word has many doctrines that are very hard to grasp and seem offensive. But instead of letting it say what it says people will attempt to twist the plain teaching, because they do not like what they have read, since it doesn't fit in with what they have imagined.
How does one reject Christ? By not receiving the doctrines of scripture. They create a false jesus with the false doctrines they have imagined, and seem like they are "Christian" but are in reality idolators.
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fivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: shane]
#6747368 - 04/04/07 07:06 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
shane said:
you can go to biblegateway.com and compare all the different versions in different languages and whatnot. -http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html
-http://www.greekbible.com/index.php
-http://www.biblegateway.com/
those three sites are perfect and have all you need in terms of studying and comparing
-"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." galations 2:16
-"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
so you can trace this back to the original greek fairly easily.
I looked into the "faith of" vs. "faith in" differences a few years ago. The KJV correctly translates "faith of" see, Romans 3:26; Galatians 2:16, 3:22; Ephesians 3:12; Philipians 3:9.
The modern translations are incorrect. You can see the Arminianism created by changing just a few "of"s to "in"s.
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shane
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Registered: 01/09/06
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Last seen: 10 months, 17 days
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: fivepointer]
#6749038 - 04/05/07 02:33 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Exactly. That's what I'm saying.
God might love creations, but he hates sin, as it says in the Bible. And we are full of sin. Moreso than we realize. The last meal you had was dripping in sin. The last good deed you did was dripping in sin. Probably because you did it in your own name, and not Jesus', thus exalting yourself above him, or something to that effect.
Yes there are opiates in my avatar. I had that one a couple months ago before I started getting into the Bible, and I just like them because they're familiar now. Thats a good example of holding high places and like the story of Lot's wife. I think I'll change it now.
Go to familyradio.com for what I would consider to be a really biblical outlook on things.
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Statements concerning my personal actions and habits, and life in general are not to be taken seriously
go to familyradio.com
Edited by shane (04/05/07 02:41 AM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
 
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,348
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 12 days, 18 hours
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: shane]
#6749066 - 04/05/07 02:45 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only ones who are dripping in sin are the ones that induce the guilt trip into people's minds.
Can;t you see that?
When one has that feel he's afraid of experience life in it's fullness. And when the happens his world becomes limited and without knowledge and can't see anymore that he's being lied.
Life is to live and learn. Life in to enjoy it. 
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: fivepointer]
#6750600 - 04/05/07 02:59 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
Quote:
shane said:
you can go to biblegateway.com and compare all the different versions in different languages and whatnot. -http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html
-http://www.greekbible.com/index.php
-http://www.biblegateway.com/
those three sites are perfect and have all you need in terms of studying and comparing
-"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." galations 2:16
-"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
so you can trace this back to the original greek fairly easily.
I looked into the "faith of" vs. "faith in" differences a few years ago. The KJV correctly translates "faith of" see, Romans 3:26; Galatians 2:16, 3:22; Ephesians 3:12; Philipians 3:9.
The modern translations are incorrect. You can see the Arminianism created by changing just a few "of"s to "in"s.
I don't see how this effects the meaning of any of these verses.
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 8,508
Loc: Dirty South, NJ
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: mikemushroom]
#6750689 - 04/05/07 03:27 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Shane said:
Of course the KJV isn't perfect. No version is
Well, then that's the end of it... Why bother reading "the word of god" in an imperfect form?
Just live, man.
Stop feeling bad for all the bad shit you did in the past, and dump this guilty feeling you have... There is no god, and no one to judge you but YOURSELF. When you learn how to be cool with who you are, you will find all this god/religion nonsense just that... nonsense.
Not trying to offend or anything... but you seem to be a classic case of "Someone convinced me I am going to hell, and now I must be super holy". It's bullshit, and it's designed to control your life, sap your finances and rape your children.
Wake up before it's too late. 
Edited by RoosterCogburn (04/05/07 03:28 PM)
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leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,227
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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when they convinced me i was going to my hell i made my brother say meaningless bullshit at the end of his prayers to god, closing in "Jesus I ask you into my heart" because I thought that was the only way to not go to hell, by saying that stupid nonsense dribble.... as if his prayers to God and Jesus weren't "sincere" enough I had to muddy them with imposed dogmatic rhetoric tacked into the end in a formulaic way, that way my dear young brother, probably 4 or 5 years old, wouldn't burn in eternity after all
where IS JESUS where is JESUS where is JESUS????? Without Jesus the Bible is a lie.
it is like you see a baby learning to walk, and you give him a beating and say NO YOU MUST WALK LIKE THIS and show him how to add unnecessary and non-intuitive and un-graceful movements to his steps, making walking a burden.
Maybe it's like a woman getting raped and defending her assailent, claming she deserved it......
Jesus is the only thing we should care about when inquiring into Christianity, otherwise we are just being masochistic and harming our lower chakras.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
Edited by leery11 (04/05/07 03:40 PM)
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Outside Your Window
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: fivepointer]
#6751020 - 04/05/07 05:06 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fivepointer said:
The KJV is based on the correct underlying greek manuscripts. The modern translations are simply terrible and they are based on different manuscripts. No translation is perfect, but the KJV is in comparison MUCH better than ANY modern translation.
We have computers today, and free programs, we can always check the underlying greek/hebrew to make sure of the translation.
Um. You are wrong. Read my new thread The Differences in Translations of the Bible
I don't need PC programs. I can just look at my three sets of commentaries, Bibles (KJV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, NLV, NCV, NRSV, NAS,and a couple others), Strongs Exhaustive Concordance, Bible Dictionaries, Intro. to Christian Doctrine books by Millard and others, etc. You have not done your homework, with all due respect.
The KJV is faulty as far as the NT is concerned because it is based on later manucripts which have accumilated many, many errors over a 1000+ year period.
Hermenuetics 101.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
Edited by mikemushroom (04/05/07 05:13 PM)
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 Mourningdove
Stranger
Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 399
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: mikemushroom]
#6760903 - 04/08/07 01:28 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hell is a seemingly real state of ignorance fueled by our fear driven belief that we are stuck in a changeless reality. It's an illusion. Christian metaphores like this were probably not meant to be taken literal until more than a few power hungry dipshits abused them eons ago. If you believe in Hell, you're in it now...
Edited by Mourningdove (04/08/07 01:31 PM)
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
Well, then that's the end of it... Why bother reading "the word of god" in an imperfect form?
Your posts are far from perfect, yet I still read them. Why should imperfection prevent me from reading something?
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Outside Your Window
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: Important to think about Hell [Re: Mourningdove]
#6763325 - 04/09/07 01:07 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Mourningdove said:
Hell is a seemingly real state of ignorance fueled by our fear driven belief that we are stuck in a changeless reality. It's an illusion. Christian metaphores like this were probably not meant to be taken literal until more than a few power hungry dipshits abused them eons ago. If you believe in Hell, you're in it now...
Yep. Another flaw of the KJV. The word hell is not even a part of the Greek language in Jesus' day. How could the people understand a word that had no reference. This is exactly why Jesus spoke of Hades which is the underworld in mythology. Everyone knew what that was. All that symbolism was meant to show that "Hell" (if you will) is bad. I really doubt that Heaven has streets of gold and pearly gates. Where is the platinum? Symbolism.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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