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 agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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 WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. 
#6505282 - 01/28/07 05:17 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Often, new folks jar up wbs/grains WAY TO WET.
Then, PC, with end result being jar content TO WET.
Resulting in poor or stalled colonization.
And, often bacterial CONTAMINATION.
I soak wbs/grain & don't simmer.
I often soak 24/36 hours (sometimes longer).
But, soak in cool temps, around 55F, in winter.
Which retards germination & fermentation.
How long you soak is up to you.
A rule of thumb is this.
Once wbs/grain has expanded 25% (in size).
It is fully hydrated.
Once fully hydrated, I rinse with hot water.
Then drain it.
Sometimes I drain it an hour.
If it still looks/feels to moist.
To moist = glistens with moisture.
I either dump it in a tray.
And, warm the tray in the oven.
Or, use a hair dryer on it, for a few minutes.
How you can TEST it, to be sure it is not TO WET.;)
Is with a large spoon, or your hand.;)
It's SIMPLE.
If you use a large stainless steel spoon, & scoop it full.
Then dump it out, holding the spoon sideways.
If a LOT of wbs/grain... STICKS to the spoon.
It is STILL TO WET.
Example:
  
3rd picture, with wbs/grain sticking to spoon.
Means..... wbs/grain is TO MOIST to jar up.
So, drain/dry it MORE.
If, only a minuscule amount, clings to the spoon.
(as above)
It's good to jar up & PC.
You can do the same test, with your hand.
Pick up a handful.
Turn hand sideways & open it.
If a LOT clings/sticks to your hand.
IT'S STILL TO MOIST.
If only a miniscule amount sticks/clings to your hand.
IT'S JUST RIGHT.
DRY enough to jar up & PC.
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 atomic1
enthusiast
Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 1,103
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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 Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505302 - 01/28/07 05:25 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice and simple, I'll remember that.
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vintage_gonzo
Stranger
Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 457
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: atomic1]
#6505454 - 01/28/07 06:30 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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why not just add a about a tablespoon of vermiculite? Has always worked for me and i never let my wbs drain. just rinse with water after the soak and load up and add the verm untill there is not standing water.
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Snaggletooth
Stranger in a Strange Land
Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 6,109
Loc: blinks stupidly
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505489 - 01/28/07 06:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yap a good write up, like usual.
But a common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
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Atheist Chat
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: Snaggletooth]
#6505507 - 01/28/07 06:49 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
But a common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.
That is CERTAINLY the truth.
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 5,910
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505522 - 01/28/07 06:53 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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agar
Personaly I like to use a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of verm per Qt jar. This has helped me stop wet spot. Also the water is still there if the myc needs it.
to each his on.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#6505535 - 01/28/07 06:57 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
vintage_gonzo said:
why not just add a about a tablespoon of vermiculite? Has always worked for me and i never let my wbs drain. just rinse with water after the soak and load up and add the verm untill there is not standing water.
LOL, ya right.
The flaw in your method/reasoning is;
Excess moisture IS STILL INSIDE THE JAR.
Which can lead to bacterial contamination.
The vermiculite doesn't teleport it to Mars.
Or, am I missing something.
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YuckMan
Student
Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 69
Last seen: 6 years, 23 days
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505554 - 01/28/07 07:04 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just did my first WBS jar a couple days ago and this is how i did it, guess i'm on the right track.
"any attempt to make something foolproof only encourages god to make a better fool"
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 5,910
Loc: Bright Side of the Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505558 - 01/28/07 07:05 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe the standing water is the problem? Gypsum also helps fights contam's. I do this with just a knif tip of it in the qt jar.
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Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
Edited by KaptKid (01/28/07 07:09 PM)
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: KaptKid]
#6505588 - 01/28/07 07:16 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have never needed to use gypsum, in a wbs/grain spawn jar.
Gypsum would aid, in wbs/grain not clumping solid.
But, mine don't without it.
So long as I shake them, while still HOT, out of the PC.
Whatever works, DOES.
Each has to find what works for him/her.
I'm just trying to help out the new folks.
With a simple test, that works for me.
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MyPhilosophy
Half Baked :D
Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Nunya
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: KaptKid]
#6505591 - 01/28/07 07:19 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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YES, I'm glad this post is out! This may be an off topic question and you have my apologies if it is. I've read many post about spawning with WBS and I know you want to try to avoid having sunflower seeds in your WBS. So I went to the mart store and began to look at the WBS and almost every single thing of bird seed had sunflower. What I'm trying to ask is what type of bird seed do you use Agar? If there are sunflower seeds within the WBS do you put them through the strainer to retain the sunflower seeds? Thanks for your help!
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MyPhilosophy
Half Baked :D
Registered: 12/27/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Nunya
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: MyPhilosophy]
#6505642 - 01/28/07 07:41 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I went back to the drawing board and saw that Pennington's bird seed for finches is ideal although it's a bit expensive.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,372
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: MyPhilosophy]
#6505669 - 01/28/07 07:48 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another test for grain moisture content before loading jars is the toilet paper test. Put a spoon of grains on a sheet of toilet paper for fifteen seconds. If it leaves a wet spot, it's too wet. If it rolls off the toilet paper easily and leaves no wet spot where it sat, load the jars.
RR
--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: MyPhilosophy]
#6505732 - 01/28/07 08:07 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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First off.
So long as any wbs sun flower seed content is under 5%.
It's good to go.
If over 5%, just skim out the floaters.
A few in the mix, harms nothing.
Sunflower seeds contain LOTS of OIL.
That OIL, in excess, is what can cause problems.
so long as it is not in EXCESS.
Reality is, that oil is beneficial.
I have used all sorts of WBS.
But, BIRDBASIC at PETSMART, 40 lbs for $8.
(which contains a small percentage of S/F seeds)
I just skim out most of the floaters.
But, not anal about it.
I have used TONS of BIRDBASIC.
In my humble opinion:
If you want to spend the money.
The ultimate seed grain is RYE GRAIN, as spawn.
But, for some odd reason, the feed stores around my new place.
Only stock it, in the spring.
Next to that, a mix of white millet & sorghum, works as well.
From feed stores, I have bought 50 lb bags of both.
Then, made a 50/50 mix.
I have also used 100% millet.
It just depends on what you can get locally.
At a decent price.
It all works.
Troubles is, it's trail & error.
To find, which works best - for you.
I prefer a mix of seed/grain.
Again, my opinion;
A mix is more forgiving, as to hydrated moisture content.
Some seed/grain soak up more, some less.
Which helps balance the moisture content out.
With 100% same seed/grain.
You either get the moisture content right, or wrong.
100% same seed/grain, is not forgiving.
All the same, once you get it down pat.
It works great.
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6505755 - 01/28/07 08:13 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL...
So far we have trial by:
SPOON, HAND & TOILET PAPER
What NEXT?
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6505778 - 01/28/07 08:17 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have been toying with the idea of skipping the simmer altogether,Now I'm going to just soak as usual.I am also out of gypsum and everywhere I looked for it is a wasteland due to it being freezing here the garden sections are either closed down or have nothing stocked
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Cake makers please read this before you waste more time/effort >>
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6236058/an/0/page/0
My LC tek >> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7320516/an/0/page/0
""THEY CAN NOT KILL ME,I STILL WALK THE EARTH,WEAKENED BUT ALIVE.THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL FROM ME BUT THE BEATING OF MY COLD DEAD HEART.
THEY WILL NOW LEARN OF FEAR,THESE MEWING BABIES WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD DESTROY ME.
I HAVE REGAINED MY POWERS AND SHALL COME TO THEM IN THE NIGHT........
MY VISITS SHALL NOT BE KIND !! ""
 BlutJager
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agar
old hand
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 9,056
Loc: Somewhere Else
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: Blutjager]
#6505798 - 01/28/07 08:22 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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A point RR makes often, is very VALID.
If you rinse the dust/chaff off the wbs, FIRST.
Then soak, then rinse again after the soak, it seldom clumps.
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vintage_gonzo
Stranger
Registered: 04/08/06
Posts: 457
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6506322 - 01/28/07 11:02 PM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
Quote:
vintage_gonzo said:
why not just add a about a tablespoon of vermiculite? Has always worked for me and i never let my wbs drain. just rinse with water after the soak and load up and add the verm untill there is not standing water.
LOL, ya right.
The flaw in your method/reasoning is;
Excess moisture IS STILL INSIDE THE JAR.
Which can lead to bacterial contamination.
The vermiculite doesn't teleport it to Mars.
Or, am I missing something.
Depends on your definition of excess moisture. there certainly is MORE moisture but there is no STANDING water in the jar. this in my experience allows plenty of moisture to be in the jar without any problems. i have NEVER had a contam in 7 dozen batches. im still a newb but my method has worked well for me. i might not be explaining it well but pm if you have any questions
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Oatman2000
-=Outa Space=-
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Posts: 2,863
Loc: Planetary Nebula
Last seen: 1 month, 18 days
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#6507554 - 01/29/07 09:53 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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nice thread! Awesome advice from the old hands.
i did the spoon trick in a slightly different manor, judging on how big the clump was that fell off the spool 
i think yours is much easier! 
--------------------
 Spawning to COIR
My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------
4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine
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ohmatic
searcher
Registered: 02/28/04
Posts: 6,375
Loc: europe
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Re: WBS/GRAIN, a simple test, BEFORE you load jars & PC. [Re: agar]
#6507852 - 01/29/07 11:30 AM (6 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
agar said:
LOL...
So far we have trial by:
SPOON, HAND & TOILET PAPER
What NEXT?
what about simply finding out how much grams of water per grams of seed, premix and be fine?
ive been using rye and a 1:1 ratio of grain and water eversince,
150g water to 150g rye and it comes out perfect EVERY time.
for birdseed, the kind i use (mostly millet) 100g to 150g does it.
ill never play around with this soaking/simmering stuff and havent for years,
except to try it, see that is much to much work and never done it since.
--------------------
 MONOTUB tek HEATBOMB tek
RIP #cultivation! ....can't associate? well FUCK U !
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