Quote:

---

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16624979/
Bush says opposition won’t shift his Iraq policy
Cheney blasts Congress’ challenge as a bid to ‘run a war by committee’

Updated: 2 hours, 58 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Digging in for confrontation, President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney say they will not budge from sending more U.S. troops to Iraq no matter how much Congress opposes it.

“I fully understand they could try to stop me,” Bush said of the Democrat-run Congress. “But I’ve made my decision, and we’re going forward.”

As the president talked tough in an interview that aired Sunday night, lawmakers pledged to explore ways to stop him.

“We need to look at what options we have available to constrain the president,” said Democratic Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois, a possible White House candidate in 2008. Democrats remain wary, though, of appearing unsupportive of American troops.

A defiant Cheney, meanwhile, said Democrats offered criticism without credible alternatives. He pointedly reminded lawmakers that Bush is commander in chief.

“You cannot run a war by committee,” the vice president said of congressional input.

The aggressive White House reaction came as the House and Senate prepare to vote on resolutions opposing additional U.S. troops in Iraq.

As the White House watched even some GOP support peel away for the war plan, it went all-out to regain some footing.

Interview from Camp David
Bush gave his first interview from Camp David, airing Sunday night on CBS’ “60 Minutes.” It was his second prime-time opportunity in five days to explain why he thinks adding U.S. troops can help stabilize Iraq and hasten the time when American soldiers can come home. He addressed the nation from the White House last Wednesday evening.

“Some of my buddies in Texas say, ’You know, let them fight it out. What business is it of ours?”’ Bush said of Iraqis. “And that’s a temptation that I know a lot of people feel. But if we do not succeed in Iraq, we will leave behind a Middle East which will endanger America.”

Yet when asked if he owes the Iraqi people an apology for botching the management of the war, he said “Not at all.”

“We liberated that country from a tyrant,” Bush said. “I think the Iraqi people owe the American people a huge debt of gratitude.”

Bush announced last week he will send 21,500 more troops to Iraq to halt violence, mainly around Baghdad, as an essential step toward stabilizing the country’s government.

Democrats in Congress — along with some Republicans — were unimpressed and frustrated. Beyond promising to go on record in opposition to the president’s approach, the Democratic leadership is considering whether, and how, to cut off funding for additional troops.

“You don’t like to micromanage the Defense Department, but we have to, in this case, because they’re not paying attention to the public,” said Rep. John Murtha, a Pennsylvania Democrat who helps oversee military funding.

It is unclear how any effort by Congress could affect Bush’s plan. National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said the White House already has money appropriated by Congress to move the additional forces to Iraq.

Power of purse strings?
GOP Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a potential 2008 presidential contender who endorses Bush’s call for more troops, said votes to express disapproval were pointless.

“If they’re dead serious then we should have a motion to cut off funding,” he said of those fighting Bush’s strategy.

Many Democrats favor a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops, along with new diplomatic efforts with Iraq’s neighbors.

The Bush administration had hoped that the president’s overhauled strategy would lead to some bipartisan unity or that the White House would at least get an extended hearing before legislative leaders made up their minds. Instead, it encountered majority opposition in Congress and a public that rejected by large polling margins the military and political ideas Bush announced.


“I’m not going to try to be popular and change principles to do so,” Bush said when asked about his standing with the public.

In the interview, Bush rejected an assertion that, time and again, his administration hasn’t been straight with the American people about Iraq. He said his spirits were strong.

“I really am not the kind of guy that sits here and says, ’Oh gosh, I’m worried about my legacy,”’ Bush said.

The president also said he saw part of the Internet-aired video of the execution of Saddam Hussein, which showed some Iraqis taunting Saddam as he stood with a noose around his neck on the gallows. He said it could have been handled a lot better.

Bush said he got no particular satisfaction from seeing Saddam hang. “I’m not a revengeful person,” he said.

---

It looks like the Legislative Branch is going to start looking for ways to restrain the power of the Executive Branch that it is has been absorbing for the last six years. The Executive Branch has shifted the balance of power away from the other branches of government, and we will see the system correct itself. They are going to cut the budget that he needs for his crusades, impose sanctions, if you will.

Its too bad that they probably won't/can't lop the head of the Executive Branch off with impeachment before his time is served, but it is all the same. Perhaps some investigation will discover his ties to criminal activities and we can imprison him for awhile. That would be justice.

Quote:

---

Power of purse strings?
GOP Sen. John McCain of Arizona, a potential 2008 presidential contender who endorses Bush’s call for more troops, said votes to express disapproval were pointless.

“If they’re dead serious then we should have a motion to cut off funding,” he said of those fighting Bush’s strategy.

---

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
The educational system here sucks compared to some other countries. The judicial system has gone Mad (see Duke DA, and OJ case. We have Police brutality problems, spousal, child abuse problems, employee abuse problems. Our crime rates are horrendous per capita compared to other countries. People are still dealing with discrimination. Some kids can't walk to school without fear of being shot. Thousands are homeless, and many more are without decent health care. Our debt to other Nations and their buying up our land and business's is sky rocketing.

---

Quote:

---

It's easier today to get a job, own a home, and go to college than ever before. Yet the Liberal agenda makes it sound like America is somehow "broken", and then they were puzzled when they didn't win the 2004 election.

---

Quote:

---

Economist said:
It's easier today to get a job, own a home, and go to college than ever before.  Yet the Liberal agenda makes it sound like America is somehow "broken", and then they were puzzled when they didn't win the 2004 election.

---

Now I know you're making this up. Liberals aren't puzzled about losing the 2004 election, they're puzzled about the legal process that allowed the religious right to steal the election after the democrats won fair and square. 

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
What do you have to say regarding money Bush promised to better fund the public educational system. It's my understanding, after he got into office, more money was cut from that budget.

---

Quote:

---

a broken system that's clearly controlled by an inefficient labor union.

---

Quote:

---

pokermush said:
Another liberal with plenty of criticism but no ideas of his own.

From listening to the liberals drone on and on about Bush and Iraq, one can only conclude that Bush has come up with the best possible plan, since none of the liberals have been able to come up with any improvements.

---

Quote:

---

pokermush said:
Another liberal with plenty of criticism but no ideas of his own.

From listening to the liberals drone on and on about Bush and Iraq, one can only conclude that Bush has come up with the best possible plan, since none of the liberals have been able to come up with any improvements.

---

Quote:

---

Redstorm said:
I'm not even liberal and I can think up a couple ways the situation could have been improved. The best plan would have been to not cherrypick intelligence and use all of the intelligence (not just the intelligence that agrees with one's predetermined course of action) to make the logical decision not to go to Iraq in the first place. With that obviously out of the question, the next logical plan would be to leave as soon as possible. Let those barbarians kill each other. It's no skin off my back.

---

Quote:

---

Sorry, bub. It is the President's responsibility to come up with a plan not the opposition party.

---

Quote:

---

Gonzales: Judges unfit to rule on terror policy
Attorney general says federal jurists should defer to president's will

WASHINGTON - Attorney General Alberto Gonzales says federal judges are unqualified to make rulings affecting national security policy, ramping up his criticism of how they handle terrorism cases.

In remarks prepared for delivery Wednesday, Gonzales says judges generally should defer to the will of the president and Congress when deciding national security cases. He also raps jurists who “apply an activist philosophy that stretches the law to suit policy preferences.”

The text of the speech, scheduled for delivery at the American Enterprise Institute, was obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press. It outlines, in part, what qualities the Bush administration looks for when selecting candidates for the federal bench.

“We want to determine whether he understands the inherent limits that make an unelected judiciary inferior to Congress or the president in making policy judgments,” Gonzales says in the prepared speech. “That, for example, a judge will never be in the best position to know what is in the national security interests of our country.”

---

Regardless of the "national security interests" (which means "made up bullshit we are trying to manipulate you with), someone has to look out for the rights that lie inherent for human beings who live within this country.

I couldn't imagine that such a statement would accomplish anything but anger some judges who have the ability to fuck the executive branch's shit up. Hang these fucking morons out to dry - stop spying on us, stop sending us to die, stop profiting off of us.

Quote:

---

pokermush said:
Convince me that there is a better option that he is not choosing.

---

Quote:

---

All I see from the critics is a bunch of rhetoric about how we shouldn't have gone there in the first place, and the mistakes that have been made, and how much they hate Bush and every thing he has ever done or ever will do. None of that is relevant to whether the current strategy in Iraq is the right one.

---

Quote:

---

I don't have strong feelings about this plan being the right one. I listened to what the president had to say, and it sounded like it was well-thought out. The criticisms seem rehearsed and automatic, as if those criticisms would be leveled no matter what the plan was.

What a pathetic cop-out. If the best the liberals can do is to criticize anything the US is going to do, they're worthless. Offer some reasonable solutions and alternatives. If they really cared about America, they would be looking for a solution too, not just another opportunity to point fingers.

So far, President Bush's plan is the best one put forward.

---

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
Zappa,

I really want to hear what you have to say about where your personal concerns regarding threats to the stability and security of this Nation lie?

Most specifically, I am looking for opinions here from anyone who thinks Iraq is a bigger threat to our Nation then our own public educational system is.

---

Quote:

---

Across these forums, people have Big issue it seems, with calling others, "retarded, dumb, stupid, uneducated", and telling them to "go read a book."

When doing so, they act as if being educated is the most important thing one can be and how it will solve every problem.

So I wonder, why when I question, why Iraq poses a larger threat to us then our dismal public educational system does, and say that our resources are better spent on revamping and improving the current system here then over in Iraq, it gets very little support or discussion.

---

Quote:

---

Struggle for power? I thought knowledge was power. If we want to remain and better become a powerful Nation, wouldn't it make sense that we strive to empower all Americans with knowledge through our public educational system?

---

Quote:

---

Here is an eye openner for how little the value of an education is to many Americans and I ask if its because our leadership gives it very little value of importance by changing nothing much of whats wrong about it and cutting budgets for it every year.

An American Philanthropist just spent millions openning schools in South Africa. Some people became upset and asked her why over there when so many American kids in her city greatly needed the help. She said, "I have helped and in doing so, asking the children what they want most, I learned that they most want things like Ipods, video games and designer brand clothes." When asking the children in South Africa the same question, they said things like, "A uniform so I can be allowed into the school and books."

---

Quote:

---

American kids in the worst of the Nations school systems  want most for Ipods, video games and designer clothing? That isn't frightening to anyone, when you consider what they will contibute to the making of the future of this Nation when they grow up?

---

Quote:

---

What will our future head lines look like, "Americans scaring off global terrorism, disease, economic depression, global warming concerns etc. with their Ipods and designer clothing." 

One can't argue that they are just being kids. They are just being American kids with American values. The kids in South Africa want to be allowed into schools and books to learn from.

She concluded that if she were going to financially back the education of children most in need for one, her money would be best spent on those why really want and value an education.

Take that wisdom and apply it to the situatuion with Iraq as well. After all of this time, and so few fighting for their own freedom from dictatorship and the hope of a democratic way of life, that we are still pretty much doing it for them, is our money best spent on helping those who don't seem to really want or value freedom from dictators or democracy?

I wonder why some of the biggest supporters of Bush, carry on about how dumb, stupid, uneducated and retarded people are and yet have no problem that he dumps billions of dollars into a war against a Nation that turned out to pose no WPD threat to us, while cutting budgets for the education of Americans.

---

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:
Thanks for taking the time to provide a better look into where you are coming from in your posts ( I agree, the bulk of todays parents suck even harder)

I hear you about Iraq having been an "enabling to terrorist" threat, in other ways. Pretty much of the middle east, some parts of Asia and Africa are as well.

If Islamic extremists goals are to rule the world with their religion, and kill the American infidels, what are your thoughts on changing strategic defenses? What we are doing in Iraq looks like a band aide effort, going bad aggravating the gapping wound to me.

Are they the biggest threat to this nation stability and security in your opinion?

---

Not any more

Quote:

---

And what do you think about oil money funding much of their actions and our getting off it ASAP to help to drastically reduce their funding. There is aproxamately 100 trillion dollars left to be made on what oil is left. That's a lot of easy money to fund terrorist and Islamic movements with.

---

Quote:

---

If terrorism was my greatest concern as a threat to this nations people, I would be executing strategies with our resources a lot differently then what Bush is doing over in Iraq. Getting our Nation off of oil and helping others to do the same would be  the first. I'll strategize more if anyone wants to just to keep the mind exercised and sharpened.

It isn't my greatest concern right now as I see countless more American lives being destroyed by junk TV & food, drugs & alcohol, poor money management skills, disease, corporate greed and coruption then I have by any terrorist act to date. I see Americans as being their own worst enemy right now.

Where are your concerns with the growing national debt if any?

---

Quote:

---

Well, I don't know about your figures but frankly their oil doesn't scare me that much.  It's just cheaper than what we have.  That being said, it's obvious that we should not waste and must pursue fusion full bore.  No matter what we do with our consumption they will still be awash in cash from other sources so that's kind of a nonstarter as a security issue to me.

---

Quote:

---

I have heard this American slacker shit for nigh onto three generations now and it never amounts to shit so I'm pretty immune to it.

---

Quote:

---

National debt?  Feh, I've heard that one before too.  I'm far more concerned with my debt.  If you want the federal government to cut it's debt by cutting spending I'm for it.  If you want to do it by raising taxes I'm against it.

---

I haven't heard on any one about it yet. I know there was a time in my life where there was no national debt and I have seen the current figures of the debt our nation is in now and know its growing. It may be a potential future threat in that a slowly rising debt is a great way to hold a nation captive to its debtors if it goes bankrupt. I think China is the largest one right now. 

For sure, every shroomery member should be concerned about their own personal finances first. I'd like to see the admins squeeze in a "Personal Business and Finance" forum here. The Pub is carrying that activity for now.

My cares in here are more of an extension for others who don't have it predominantly together. If the shit hits the fan here, I am in a position to leave and get lost pretty quickly and easily. Even prior to that, we can live outside of the country now with my husbands position if we wanted too. For now, theres a lot I like about this country and I want to see conditions across the board improve, not worsen.

Quote:

---

gettinjiggywithit said:

Quote:

---

Well, I don't know about your figures but frankly their oil doesn't scare me that much.  It's just cheaper than what we have.  That being said, it's obvious that we should not waste and must pursue fusion full bore.  No matter what we do with our consumption they will still be awash in cash from other sources so that's kind of a nonstarter as a security issue to me.

---

What other sources? So much of their regions are desert land. Opium is the only other funder of terrorist activities that I am aware of.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I have heard this American slacker shit for nigh onto three generations now and it never amounts to shit so I'm pretty immune to it.

---

Granted, these threats of the current American way of life are mostly contained to the individual, except for crime.

It seems strange and a waste in part, that all this money is being spent to protect Americans so a vast number of them can freely destroy themselves.

---

Quote:

---

 

Quote:

---

National debt?  Feh, I've heard that one before too.  I'm far more concerned with my debt.  If you want the federal government to cut it's debt by cutting spending I'm for it.  If you want to do it by raising taxes I'm against it.

---

I haven't heard on any one about it yet. I know there was a time in my life where there was no national debt and I have seen the current figures of the debt our nation is in now and know its growing. It may be a potential future threat in that a slowly rising debt is a great way to hold a nation captive to its debtors if it goes bankrupt. I think China is the largest one right now.

---

Quote:

---

Redstorm said:
I don't hate Bush, yet I believe there should be an immediate withdrawal. I'm sick of my tax dollars paying for a water treatment center or various other piece of property which is more than likely going to be destroyed and rebuilt again.

Why do I owe the Iraqi's any sort of aid? I didn't feel our our country owed them a reprieve from Saddam's rule and I don't feel like we owe them the fixing of a terrible situation which they have not put forth any effort to fix. If they want to kill each other, I do not care as long as they keep it over there.

---