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 StroFun
Repeater
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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 Re: LSA FAQ and recipes...  [Re: leafing]
#6329853 - 12/03/06 12:13 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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thank you but for future reference any posts that give a number of seeds should also state what kind of seed it was.
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Sunny
free-ballin
 
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,318
Loc: on the magic bus
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6330709 - 12/03/06 06:52 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The melting point of LSD is about 180'F or 85'C, which is really quite low, basically exposing it to an open flame will not only melt it, but oxidize it rather quickly. Since we have no material data on LSA, lets assume that other chemicals in the ergot family are as susceptible to heat as LSD is.
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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!
My Music:
Me on SoundCloud
Me, the bandcamp
My musics, on the facebook
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Sunny
free-ballin
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,318
Loc: on the magic bus
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6509616 - 01/29/07 09:09 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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time for another bump.
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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!
My Music:
Me on SoundCloud
Me, the bandcamp
My musics, on the facebook
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 Salvinorin
I like plants.
Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 192
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6534189 - 02/05/07 07:56 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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May I advise that somebody should start a project? Maybe have people try each method with a designated amount of seeds, and rate each on a 1-5 scale, to produce some good data. Personally I've learned to trust a consensus, but never a single opinion.
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"What you say is a cluster-fuck of nonsense."
- Yageman
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Whale
chillin
Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Salvinorin]
#6537368 - 02/06/07 07:20 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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is it necessary to scrape off the outer layer/shell before soaking?
...and has anyone tried the carbonated water version yet?
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Sunny
free-ballin
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,318
Loc: on the magic bus
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Whale]
#6537403 - 02/06/07 07:39 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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what are you trying to do?
For HBWR and the cold tea method, it makes sense to take the husk off of the seed before crushing it into a powder.
I think someone posted about a carbonated tea, but I don't remember the details.
That reminds me:
The Leafing Method
Mix your HBW seeds with nerds candy. Totally genius. the nerds have the same texture as the HBW except they are super sweet, masking the flavor of the seeds while you chew them.
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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!
My Music:
Me on SoundCloud
Me, the bandcamp
My musics, on the facebook
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microwavechips
Stranger
Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 10
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Salvinorin]
#6537629 - 02/06/07 08:46 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Last night I ate 200 Burbee heavenly blue seeds. The only thing I did to the seeds was wash them with dish soap and water, incase of fungacides. Then I just chewed them up with some apple sauce. The trip ended up being great, I'm not too sure on the trip scale but to take a guess I'de say it was around a 2 or 3. The nausea was there for the first hour and a half then it completly stopped once the trip started. The only negative was a heavy feeling in the body and nausea this morning but it was taken away by some food and water. Overall it was a great experience. Hope this helps.
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Whale
chillin
Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6537666 - 02/06/07 08:57 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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This weekend I'll be trying (HBWR) the cold carbonated tea method with lemon juice to see how much the carbonation accually reduces nausea...as I'm not too comfortable(for health reasons)using the popular nonpolar solvants like Naptha...(though maybe I should be)...I'll report back on how it goes...
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Salvinorin
I like plants.
Registered: 08/24/06
Posts: 192
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Whale]
#6538019 - 02/06/07 10:24 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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^ Please do. I'd be very interested to know how it turns out.
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"What you say is a cluster-fuck of nonsense."
- Yageman
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Whale
chillin
Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 11
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Salvinorin]
#6551500 - 02/10/07 07:45 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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so i screwed up the extraction by adding wayyyy too much lime juice to the point where it was so acidic that i couldnt keep it down...the carbonation did bring up alot of slimy seed stuff that you can scrape off the top...but im not sure how much this helps as i just ended up abandoning the extraction, crunching down on some seeds, and tripping all day 11-6 with barely any naseua 
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IamHeasYouareHeasYouareMeandWearealltogether
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Chesh
道
Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 107
Loc: bardo
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Whale]
#6551746 - 02/10/07 08:55 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure that HBWR seeds contain amygdalin, which is a cyanogenic glycoside.
Many members of the rosaceae family produce this chemical, and you can find it in apple seeds and almonds as well as HBRW.
This is probably the cause of most negative effects, as clinical trials investigating its efficacy in treating cancer led to several cases of cyanide poisoning.
Edited by Chesh (02/10/07 09:23 PM)
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Sunny
free-ballin
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 12,318
Loc: on the magic bus
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6920148 - 05/15/07 04:08 PM (6 years, 9 days ago) |
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Bump it. Let's expose some of noobs to the plethora of knowledge contained herein.
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WAFFLEZZ!!!11!!!1!!!1!!!!
My Music:
Me on SoundCloud
Me, the bandcamp
My musics, on the facebook
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#6936961 - 05/19/07 02:39 AM (6 years, 6 days ago) |
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I'll give dmthead420's method a try ASAP. Never done LSA before, have some more reading to do. Here's some additional info for your thread:
The New Morning Glory FAQ v. 0.22 March 21, 2003.
Disclaimer: The author has no specific credentials to be writing
about this at all. The author is merely someone who brought together a whole
bunch of information that was found and is presenting it as a coherent whole.
So what this means is: This entire text could be completely false, make no
assumptions that any of this is true. Note that the author does not recommend
anyone to follow any procedure made, implicitly or explicitly, in this text.
The Author of this document cannot be contacted (unless you know who he is).
This document may be transmitted as long as it is unmodified and not
transmitted for profit.
Q: What is this FAQ about?
A: This FAQ is an attempt at providing information to those who are
interested in the mental and physical effects of ingesting Morning Glory
seeds.
Q: Is this implying that a person can "get high" of Morning Glory seeds?
A: Yes.
Q: What seeds should I eat?
A: Typically, the "Heavenly Blue" variety of Morning Glory are thought to
contain the highest alkaloid content per seed of all Morning Glory varieties.
Other potent varieties include "Pearly Gates" and "Flying Saucers".
Q: How strong are Heavenly Blue seeds?
A: I have found three sources for the strength of the seeds. The sources are
in conflict with each other. My interpretation of this conflict is that since
nature can vary the alkaloid content of the seeds so much that each source is
correct. A reasonable, but of course by no means correct, assumption would be
to view the sources as providing the possible range in seed strength.
The strongest reference (for Heavenly Blue) is 0.813mg of alkaloids per each
gram of seed. This means that about 0.08% of the seed is a (possibly)
psychoactive chemical. [SEE FOOTNOTE #1]
The second reference lists 0.06% as the amount of alkaloid content per seed.
[SEE FOOTNOTE #2]
The weakest reference lists 0.02% of the seed as an (psychoactive) alkaloid.
This reference states that 0.01% of the seed is the substance LAA (Lysergic
Acid Amide), meaning that the other 0.01% is other (psychoactive) alkaloids.
[SEE FOOTNOTE #3]
Q: What psychoactive chemicals are in Morning Glory seeds?
A: The chemicals found in the highest concentrations of the seeds are:
(NOTE: The "*" indicates that Albert Hoffman beleived this chemical
to be psychoactive.)
* Ergine (Lysergic Acid Amide, LAA, LA-111, Lysergamide)
* Isoergine (Isolysergic Acid Amide)
* Ergonovine (Lysergic Acid Propanolamide)
The chemicals found in much lower concentrations are:
Agroclavine
Setoclavine
Restuclavine
Cycloclavine
Lysergine
* Elymoclavine
* Lysergol
Penniclavine
Chanoclavine
Scientific speculation is that these chemicals act in synergy with each other
and are therefore all active alkaloids because when many of these chemicals
are taken on their own, even in high doses, they have very limited psychedelic
effect. This also concurs with anecdotal evidence suggesting that these seeds
have subtle but distinct psychological effects from HBWR seeds.
Q: What are the effects of some of these chemicals when used one at a time?
A:
On the internet newsgroups most people refer to Ergine (LAA) to be the main
psychedelic chemical in Morning Glory seeds. Ergine is also known as Lysergic
Acid Amide and Lysergamide. It is slightly soluble in organic solvents, has a
melting point of 135 Celcius (it decomposes at this temperature), and has an
effective dose range of about 1mg to 2mg.
Effective dose means that at 1mg to 2mg its effects are comparable to
100ug of LSD (meaning it is only about 5% - 10% as potent). Many people,
including Albert Hoffman (who tested it on himself) disagree with this,
stating that Lysergamide's effects include drowsiness, numbness in
extremities, mental 'peace and quiet', a slight increase in empathy, mild
enhancement of colours, and vasoconstriction (the veins get smaller).
In high doses, about 10mg, the vasoconstriction gets so bad that it has
caused painful leg cramps. Please be aware that vascular constriction is very
dangerous and can be fatal, especially if you are taking medication for low
blood pressure or migraine headaches. Lysergamide is actually an ingredient in
some prescription migraine medicines.
Isoergine is also used in migraine headache medication. There is very
little information available but because of its similarity to Ergine (LAA,
Lysergamide) its effects are most likely the same.
Ergonovine is also known as Lysergic Acid Propanolamide; D - Lysergic
Acid - L - 2 - Propanolamide; and [8b(s)] - 9,10 - Didehydro - N - (2 -
hydroxy - 1 - methylethyl) - 6 - methylergoline - 8 - carboxamide. It is also
used in some prescription migraine medicines but doesn't cause as much
vasoconstriction as Ergine, which is good. This chemical is thought to be the
principal psychedelic in Morning Glory seeds (I don't know why so many
references to Ergine being the main psychedelic exist on the 'net). The
chemical has a molar weight of 441.48, is soluble in ethanol, is oxytocic,
and needs to be stored at room temperature.
PLEASE NOTE: Oxytocic means that this chemical stimulates
contractions of the muscles of the uterus. Morning Glory seeds should *NEVER*
be ingested by anyone who is pregnant.
At 2.0mg, which is about 6 times its regular dose in migraine medicines,
Ergonovine is noted to have hallucinogenic properties. Interestingly enough,
not much research into the psychedelic effects of this chemical has been done.
Elymoclavine, found in very tiny amounts in Morning Glory seeds was
thought to have some psychedelic effect by Albert Hoffman. Elymoclavine is
found in very small amounts in the seeds(probably to the order of 4.6% of all
alkaloids in Heavenly Blues is Elymoclavine, on average). Again, little
research has actually been done as to the real effects of these seeds except
that at 1mg/kg in humans, i.p. has a "positive effect on learning and memory."
Lysergol is an isomer of Elymoclavine and found in relative small
amounts in Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds like Elymoclavine. It probably
has very similar effects to Elymoclavine.
Agroclavine, again one of the minor chemicals found in the seeds, is a
dopamine receptor agonist, and is pharmacologically active at 25mg. It also
seems to have antibiotic activity.
Q: What does this all mean if I want to get high? How many seeds should I
take?
A: Officially of course, I recommend that you don't take any seeds, but I can
provide you with the theoretical information to make your own decisions about
how many seeds to take.
To get an effect from Ergine, you need about 1mg to 2mg. Assuming a dose of
1.5mg that means you would need at least 10 grams of seeds and at most 40
grams of seeds.
A text of Morning Glory trip reports has a report of a dose of 13.5 grams
producing pretty well no effect. Another report in the same file states that
a dose just over 7 grams produced a substantial hallucinatory experience
(seems to be near the top end of the Third Psychedelic Level on the popular
Graeme Carl system) and another report of a 15 gram trip corresponding to a
high fourth psychedelic level trip.
Considering that doses of 1mg to 2mg of Ergine have been reported to
have very little psychedelic effect (by Albert Hoffman), which again
corresponds to about 10 to 40 grams of (Heavenly Blue) Morning Glory seeds is
seems pretty easy to conclude that Ergine is probably not the principle
psychedelic of these seeds. Also, considering that you'd need about 31 grams
of seeds at least to get an effect from Ergonovine it seems unlikely that
Ergonovine is the sole active chemical in these seeds.
I believe that no one chemical in these seeds is solely responsible for their
psychedelic effects.
The question how much one might want to take still remains unanswered, so far,
so I'll use some of my own anecdotal evidence to provide a basis for how much
to take your first time.
One route to take is to assume that all of these alkaloids have the same
potentcy (or even higher) when taken all at once. This means that since both
Ergine and Ergonovine are considered to be about 1/10th to 1/20th as potent as
LSD then we might be able to assume that for the total alkaloid content of the
seeds. So, for example, if you want the equivalent of a 60 microgram trip
(which is about the strength of average blotter) then you want between 0.6mg
to 1.2mg of alkaloids. Therefor, at the very least dose of 0.6mg of alkaloids
(and following all my assumptions) you'd need .738 grams of seeds. From what
I can tell from reading the trip reports, about 30 seeds equals one gram, so
this is about 22 seeds. My first experiments with the seeds were about 40 to
60 seeds and produced very mild psychedelic effects (like light strobe lights
on walls in the dark, mild colour enhancement, and a light head trip). I'd
say you'd be lucky to get a "1 hit trip" out of 0.738 grams.
At the very most for a dose of 0.6mg total alkaloids and 1.2mg total
alkaloids you'd need 3 grams and 6 grams, respectively. This is about 90 to
180 seeds, respectively. Of course, it's hard to account for all of the
numerous variables: how much do a particular batch of Morning Glory Seeds
weigh?, and what dose of total alkaloids are we actually looking at?. It's
very hard to make an exact science out of all these variables without any
laboratory equipment (plus, making quantitative measurements of psychedelic
experiences may be laughable in itself).
In my opinion, assuming that all of the alkaloids when taken
simultaneously are somewhere between 1/10th to 1/20th the potency of LSD, and
then combining that with the variability of seed potency can provide you with
a rough idea of how many seeds to take.
Use these equation to give you a guideline for use:
The first equation describes the most potent possibility (1/10th potency of
LSD, and 0.813mg of alkaloid / seed). The second equation describes the least
potent possibility (1/20th potency of LSD and 0.2mg of alkaloid / seed).
Grams-of-seeds * (30 seeds / gram) = ( DOSE[LSD]) / (0.813mg alkaloids * 100)
Grams-of-seeds * (30 seeds / gram) = ( DOSE[LSD]) / (0.2mg alkaloids * 50)
DOSE[LSD] - equivalent dose of LSD in micrograms
For example: A desired dose equivalent to 100ug of LSD is wanted. Equation #1
yields 1.2 grams of seeds (or 37 seeds). Equation #2 yields 10 grams of seeds
(or 300 seeds). So, you'd want somewhere between 37 and 300 seeds. Sorry,
but that's the best I can do for you.
Q: How do I use these seeds with a minimum of nausea?
A: There's another extraction method on the 'net involving ether. The basis
for using the ether is that everything except for some mysterious element
responsible for something called the "strychnine effect" will dissolve in the
ether, therefore leaving you without this bad effect. The chemicals responsible
for the psychedelic effect will cause unpleasant side effects. No evidence is
provided that there is any chemical responsible for the "strychnine effect".
Therefore, I do not consider it reasonable, at this point, to bother using a
polar/nonpolar extraction method.
The ether routine seems to me, to be a waste of time. Also, I suspect that a
lot of people who try this can't get diethyl ether So here's my route for
extracting all the good chemicals from the seeds.
Decide how many seeds or grams of seeds you want to use.
Now, grind the seeds as finely as you possibly can. They're very tough, so
you might want to use an electric coffee grinder, or a mortar and pestle. Then
with a funnel in a bottle pour the powder into the funnel and scrape the rest
from the grinder. Most of the powder will go through the funnel into the bottle
(make sure it's clean and dry, and it's room temperature as well). Then pour
distilled water down the funnel. Since I don't have specific data on water
solubility of these chemicals, use common sense (meaning, you don't want to
drink 3 gallons of water, do you? but it will take more than 1mL)
Shake the bottle of water for a few minutes. A better idea would be to skip
putting it in a bottle and just put the seeds plus water into the blender.
Try to use cool water.
Get a coffee filter or filter paper and stick it in the funnel. I'd recommend
using two or three coffee filters because the seed-water mix might rip the
filter. A cheesecloth will speed up the process but will not filter as well.
A Buchner filter with a vacuum flask and an aspirator with proper filter paper
or a number of layers of coffee filters would be *ideal*.
Then, after shaking your seed-water bottle well so all the powder is swirling
around the brown liquid pour it into the filter. It may take a damn long time
to filter through the coffee filter. A Buchner filter with vacuum flask and
aspirator would speed up this process immensely.
Now, in your cup or whatever you filtered the stuff into should be a brown
liquid.
Consuming this drink will result in less nausea than simply eating the seeds.
Q: What are the risks of using these seeds?
A: Most of the alkaloids in the seeds cause vasoconstriction which can cause
coldness and/or numbness in extremities, leg cramps, chest pain, and even
strokes or heart attacks. These chemicals can kill you!
Don't ever take these seeds if you have high blood pressure, or are on
migraine medication, or medication for low blood pressure. It may be best to
avoid anything else that might cause vascular constriction such as caffeine,
DXM, amphetamines, and so on.
A rough estimate for safety of Ergine is about 10mg as being the very
most you can take before risking your life. To get 10mg Ergine you'd need
about 50 grams to 200 grams of seeds, which is a lot. However, since most of
these alkaloids are known to cause vasoconstriction (and probably all of them
do) it may not be a good idea to take much more than 10mg of seed alkaloids
combined. That means, the top safety range can be estimated at between 12
grams and 50 grams of seeds. If you exceed 12 grams you may very well be risking
your life!
It's probably best not to take the seeds more than once every two weeks
because constant vasoconstriction could cause gangrene.
FOOTNOTES
1) Hylin, J. W.; Watson, D. P. (1965) Ergoline alkaloids in tropical wood
roses. Science 148:499-500
2) Indole Alkaloids In Plant Hallucinogens Richard Evans Schultes, PhD.
Journal of Psychedelic Drugs Vol.8(No.1) Jan-Mar 1976
3) Isolation and Identification of Lysergic Acid Amide and Isolysergic Acid Amide as the
Principal Ergoline Alkaloids in _Argyreia nervosa_, a tropical wood rose. Michael D. Miller.
Journal of the AOAC, vol 53(1):123-7, 1970.
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: elbisivni]
#6945187 - 05/21/07 01:52 AM (6 years, 4 days ago) |
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Thanks ^^^^
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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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hightimesreader
Half assed question asker
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 2,543
Loc: In the air conditioning
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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 Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: moecat]
#6988817 - 05/30/07 10:24 PM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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LSA is not the LSD trip it's cracked to be...
HTR
--------------------
I'm hunting for The Following ethnos.
For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal.
HTR
A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,492
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
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Who's cracking it up to be an LSD trip?
--------------------
Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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I plan on giving LSA a first go this weekend, got 10 grams of Heavenly Blue. I was reading through some articles and now I'm wondering if that should be enough.. I've gathered that it varies but what do the rest of you recommend?
I also plan on using the tek located in my above post. Thanks!
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Shlumpeet
killers!
Registered: 07/31/07
Posts: 24
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: elbisivni]
#7248251 - 08/01/07 06:32 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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I have a question about Morning Glory. I've tried it at least four times, and nothing happened, every time. I've done at least 6 grams each time, and I never felt anything. I've tried chewing and swallowing and a cold water extraction, and simply nothing happens. Does anyone know what might be wrong?
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I've crossed the ocean, turned every bend. I found the crossing near a golden rainbow's end...
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: LSA FAQ and recipes... [Re: Sunny]
#7248257 - 08/01/07 06:34 PM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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have a virgin crush them with a rock and eat! in ritualistic manner with a medicine man and if you are in fact a medicine man then do first step and do it with others but be invisible
--------------------
  
"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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