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 Sebastian23
Stranger
Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 808
Loc: Bay
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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 Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru  [Re: Economist]
#6607451 - 02/25/07 03:11 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Economist said:
Quote:
zippoz said:
Thats why we need a coalitlon of the willing!!!!
What we need statistics and studies, complete with peer-review.
The absolute biggest hurdle to legalization is the complete lack of evidence for what will happen post-legalization. The nay-sayers claim we'll turn into a land of addicts and deadbeats. What we need to show (and likely could, with the right partners) is exactly how much consumption will change with legalization, and what we can expect from the increased consumption.
After that, we can begin to get corporations on board, guaranteeing a certain more respectable element to the supply end.
It could be done, but we need more research first.
That might get the scientists and analyst's vote, but what we need more than ever is charisma. A strong support of marijuana by respected people (actors, musicians, politicians) will spur the masses to conform, and fall in line. We need layman's terms, information the average citizen can absorb, and that convinces them. Technical terms and statistics are the base, and the backup against nay-sayers, but what we need is to make the information available to the average person, and show it in a positive light. Charisma.
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"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment
with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp
it was written on." -Terence McKenna
Marijuana Myths Debunked
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Sebastian23
Stranger
Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 808
Loc: Bay
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
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 Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: Sebastian23]
#6607554 - 02/25/07 03:47 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Respect. I'm gonna work to further the cannabis cause.
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"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment
with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp
it was written on." -Terence McKenna
Marijuana Myths Debunked
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 elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: ZippoZ]
#6607633 - 02/25/07 04:24 AM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
were going to need atleast one *head* of the orginisation, someone familiar to the counterculture that supports the cause. I would highly recomend using local music stars to gain support.
I think the best possible head to such an organization would be a panel of individuals working together in a corporate sense. I think it would also be best for these individuals to not be famous cultural icons. The power would go straight to the heads of such often idiotic people and the revolution, if you will, would fall flat on it's face as a result.
It would all have to be very carefully orchestrated, lots of consideration would have to be taken with every single individual involved, one fucking idiot could thrust the entire movement into the ground.
Back to the board, it would probably be best if it was made up of individuals who didn't even necessarily use drugs but people who were knowledgeable, intellectual, talented and charismatic speakers who firmly believed in what they were fighting for - not just so that they can get high without getting in trouble.
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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djnoktirnal
Ponderer
Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 195
Loc: the psychabyss
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: elbisivni]
#6616885 - 02/27/07 04:08 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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We need to do several things in order to plan an effective strategy.
1. find free services, legal, advertising, etc.
2. Raise funds for services, and bail - should be easy, most here know how to make mushrooms, sporeprints, etc.
3. Find legal assistance for bringing civil lawsuits against the govt. for numerous civil rights violations
4. Produce ads to be printed/aired beginning when lawsuits are filed. Find as many media outlets as possible. I suspect some will not accept our business. look for mainstream as well as non-mainstream outlets. Run ads for at least 30 days, longer if funds allow.
5. Distribute flyers from airplanes over large areas. beginning moment suits are filed.
6. Obtain permits for protest. Recruit volunteers to turn themselves in for posession. smaller areas will need fewer volunteers than larger ones, but all need as many as possible, in order to choke the system. People should be turning themselves in to all public officials - Police, sherriffs, judges, court clerks, even feds or congress members if there are enough volunteers willing to brave that. All will turn themselves in at moment suits are filed. Other volunteers will be needed to smoke in public in large numbers.
7. Recruit volunteers to bail out and drive those who do become police property
8. recruit legal assistance for criminal cases, also must be versed in civil rights. As the first one in each city arrested should have protest permit.
If corrdinated and executed properly, this would definitely bring the issue of legalization to the forefront.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: djnoktirnal]
#6616911 - 02/27/07 04:16 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If corrdinated and executed properly, this would definitely bring the issue of legalization to the forefront.
Sure it would, but I'm not sure it's the best way.
Quote:
2. Raise funds for services, and bail - should be easy, most here know how to make mushrooms, sporeprints, etc.
Are you suggesting we sell drugs?
Quote:
5. Distribute flyers from airplanes over large areas. beginning moment suits are filed.
That would do wonders for the image of a drug legalization campaign, mass littering.
A number of other points regarding volunteers and free services are kind of hazy in relation to reality. I don't think this would be the preferred method, though it may yield some results I highly doubt it would do anything positive for the image of drugs in our society. I think while the government would be like 'wow this is ridiculous' all the people uninvolved would look back at the drug community as a bunch of defiant druggies trying to make getting high legal. We may just end up alienating ourselves more.
I say if it's going to be done it's probably going to be through smooth talking and fancy footwork done by professional-grade individuals with the knowledge, know-how, and interest.
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
Edited by elbisivni (02/27/07 04:25 PM)
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djnoktirnal
Ponderer
Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 195
Loc: the psychabyss
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: elbisivni]
#6616972 - 02/27/07 04:42 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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My post was a broad outline of things that could be done to wage war on the war on drugs.
Law abiding citizens don't possess, manufacture, or use controlled substances illegally. (i.e. without the permission of the federal govt.)
as it stands if you use drugs you are a criminal in the eyes of the law. I think littering would be the least of the legal worries. The suggestion was to sell spores, which is legal in most states, although growing, possessing or using a mushroom makes you a criminal just like selling one does, in our current system.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: djnoktirnal]
#6617154 - 02/27/07 05:32 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Law abiding citizens don't possess, manufacture, or use controlled substances illegally. (i.e. without the permission of the federal govt.)
An obvious and redundant statement if I ever saw one lol
Quote:
as it stands if you use drugs you are a criminal in the eyes of the law. I think littering would be the least of the legal worries.
No kidding, really? I mentioned the littering bit in respects to the image of the movement in the eyes of mass culture. It would really add to the negative image that already exists and that would exist in such a scenario.
Quote:
The suggestion was to sell spores, which is legal in most states, although growing, possessing or using a mushroom makes you a criminal just like selling one does, in our current system.
More obvious statements. I'm sorry to say but selling spores would not even remotely be successful in raising the money required for such an operation.
Please don't take offense to any sarcasm in this post, I don't mean to attack - just argue, and sarcasm is in my nature 
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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djnoktirnal
Ponderer
Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 195
Loc: the psychabyss
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: elbisivni]
#6617387 - 02/27/07 06:48 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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not at all, questions lead to more refined answers.
and its not the masses we need to convince, it's politicians and govt.
politicians run the govt
politicians like special interest groups.
there is a movement for gays/lesbians to be allowed to marry, they are not the majority, nor are they trying to sway the majority to their view.
they only want the freedom to live how they choose
the same goes for those who want drugs legalized. I am not trying to get the majority to do drugs, and we should never have to convince anyone of anything to be able to live our private lives, and conduct our personal business, without govt interference or the threat of it.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: djnoktirnal]
#6617534 - 02/27/07 07:37 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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Of course you're not trying to get the majority to do drugs, I don't think any of us would have any interest in that. But it would have to be demonstrated to the masses that legalizing drugs could have feasible, consistent and non-destructive results.
Take for example the portion of the gay movement that is pushing for adoption capabilities, isn't the main hindrance that people are skeptical as to whether or not a gay couple is capable of raising a child 'correctly'? I'll admit I don't know much at all about that movement or about what has been and what hasn't been accomplished, but I know that this was a point of argument at some point.
That's why I'm saying a 'revolution' involving over-the-top propaganda tactics isn't a smart idea, while leading protests definitely is. It has to be fought with less revolutionary-guerrilla-rebel tactics like many of the movements of the 60's and has to take place on a different front. We have to beat the system at it's own game from the inside, and thusly prove the validity of our arguments and concurrent beliefs while showing that the parties interested aren't a bunch of incapable retards as portrayed in the governments commercials. A long steady battle can probably be the only effective one.
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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Luddite
cognitive dissident
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,454
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise drugs. [Re: ZippoZ]
#6706537 - 03/24/07 04:19 PM (6 years, 2 months ago) |
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antidrugwarczar
Anti-drugwarCzar
Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 1
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: Luddite]
#6764558 - 04/09/07 11:59 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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there are lot of great ideas in this thread!
i invite all of you to come visit my web site: http://www.drugwarstats.com and start putting it to good use.
i tracked down all of the government's data related to the drug war and then graphed it all, and made it easy to find and use. have a look, put the stuff to use and tell everyone you know.
sorry i can't hang out on every cool board i come across, but there is much work to be done connecting up everyone with the ammo they need to help put an end to this bullshit forever. we need to convince millions of people to pay attention to something that isn't really a "problem" to them. i'm trying to do my part by making it way easier for everyone else to join in and help.
let's do it!
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It's time to correct the mistake:
truth: the Anti-drugwar
Cops say legalize drugs -- find out why:
http://www.leap.cc
"Stoners" are people too:
http://cannabisconsumers.org
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DiscipleofGarcia
Traveller on theroad to Zion
Registered: 12/14/06
Posts: 153
Loc: Pepperland
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: ZippoZ]
#6772105 - 04/10/07 10:09 PM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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I definetely agree with just about everything here. We need to unite. We are mush stronger together than we are apart.
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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace.
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FrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist
Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: Sebastian23]
#6802287 - 04/18/07 01:35 AM (6 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sebastian23 said:
Technical terms and statistics are the base, and the backup against nay-sayers, but what we need is to make the information available to the average person, and show it in a positive light. Charisma.
Charisma is common, and relative and generally favors those already in the majority. Remember for every single charismatic speaker you produce, the Christians can find dozens. Catchy statements and folk wisdom will not end the war on drugs.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
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Sydfan420
Stranger
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 2
Last seen: 6 years, 10 days
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 Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise drugs. [Re: FrenchSocialist]
#6926991 - 05/16/07 11:16 PM (6 years, 10 days ago) |
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LEAFLETS.WE NEED LEAFLETS.LOTS OF EM
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Sydfan420
Stranger
Registered: 05/16/07
Posts: 2
Last seen: 6 years, 10 days
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise drugs. [Re: Sydfan420]
#6927012 - 05/16/07 11:22 PM (6 years, 10 days ago) |
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we also need to educate the children. they are the future. we show them the truth before the government corrupts their minds with their lies and right-wing propaganda bullshit
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multivitamins
James
Registered: 05/07/07
Posts: 58
Loc: NW England, UK
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: Sydfan420]
#6970255 - 05/26/07 07:12 PM (6 years, 20 hours ago) |
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I would argue the best way to attack it is from a freedom and/or religous viewpoint. Americans like the idea of freedom but its been drilled into most of their heads from a young age that drugs are some kind of exception to this. Trying to convince them that the war on drugs is a war on freedom through the use of leaflets etc... might be productive, if we can undermine support for the war on drugs then the cause is half won. Also working on dismissing the sterotypes of stoners, pointing out the discrepencies in jail time for "real crimes" and "drug crimes" and trying to get people to stop lumping drugs together.
I did psychology at university and they belive the brain works using conectionist models for understanding language and concepts. Each word is represneted as a node and each node is linked to other nodes containing related words and concepts and each link has a strenth depending on the strength of relation. For example the link between 'dog' and 'animal' might be .9 but "dog" and "kettle" .3, this a) helps identify word meaning and b) gives the brain an idea about what might be coming next. Anyway the point is these are formed at a very young age (i.e 2-5) and are hard to change. From a young age children are told drugs are bad and weed is a drug, this makes sence as the majority of parents dont want there 3 year olds getting high! In my opinion the biggest problem in getting weed or any drug legalised is the fact they are all lumped together as drugs. You say 'weed' and (people who dont know much about drugs as they dont do them) subconsciously associate it with meth, heroin, death, prison, prostitution, addiction and so on). Notice how most people don't have a problem with alcohol despite the fact if kills many more than most illegal "drugs" put together? This could be as simple as the fact that most people don't associate the word 'alcohol' with the word 'drug' (and all the 'negative' concepts that this is linked to in the non drug users mind). If you walked up to strangers on the street and said "please can you name 5 drugs for me?" I dought many of them would say alcohol at all and if they did it would be 4th or 5th on the list.
I realise that this has gone a bit of topic but my point is that if you want support for weed legalisation you want to come at it from a number of angles but you also need to get the non-drug user to fundermentally change the way they think about drugs as at the end of the day if you can erode support for the war on drugs from the non drug using public the goverment will have to rethink. With the whole war on terror kicking off it is a good time to attack teh war on drugs, the goverment knows it can use the money and men used on fighting drugs elsewhere.
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"She was able, prompt, strict and intelligent. She welcomed responsibility and kept her head in every crisis. She was an adult and self-reliant, and there was nothing she needed from anyone. Yossarian took pity and decided to help her"- Catch 22
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leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/25/05
Posts: 5,227
Last seen: 4 months, 25 days
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Re: If its a war on drugs they want, A war is what we should give them, ZIppo'z plan to legalise dru [Re: multivitamins]
#7024923 - 06/09/07 02:21 AM (5 years, 11 months ago) |
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multivitamins right on! I've been trying to explain this for some time.
The media operates under free-association (as does all of reality, it being an inkblot which we are told how to interpret and what to look for in it) and so basically the word drug is just constantly constantly paired with bad things.
Drug = Nigger
it is a word forged in order to wage w war and do massive damage. it is a scarlet letter. it is a scapegoat. and as long as this word exists it will have so much power for the movement.
racism stopped by changing the way we used language, and its a very long battle but you know, nigger went to afro-american to african-american etctera but the problem is that they are just HUMAN they aren't african-americans, how stupid, how absurd
there is no such thing as America let alone an african-american
it is all just symbolic imprisonment
so to end the drug war we have to annihilate the entire concept that drugs even exist. You know, if we say "legalize drugs" we are fighting the war with their ammo but if we say "people should not be injustly imprisoned in a vicious war for the use of meager chemical property" then that gets so much more attention because
people are also conditiond to associate "legalize drugs" in just as negative of a way, with references to hippy and stoner and stuff, and people are taught not to take hippies seriously
so it is a very complex work and i highly agree the drug war will be won by us utilizing propoganda properly.
i can perhaps think of no better issue than medical marijuana though. In Robert Anton Wilsom's documentary it shows him, he says "I am about to commit a federal crime" then he pops a pill in his mouth.
This entire brief scene is so PERFECTLY synonmous of the absolute absurdity of drug war, that a federal crime with the most heinous of punishments is issued for the simple act of the hand going to the mouth and swallowing something, that if people were to simply see TV COMMERCIALS LIKE THIS
change would happen very quickly.
I think one of the single highest ways to quickly fix this is to get a very popular segment of mass-media to in complete seriousness expose what the drug war is doing, what it is. be it a popular movie or something.
also, this notion of "free country" has got to go, as long as people believe they are in a free country they will never be able to see any acts of un-freedom.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
Edited by leery11 (06/09/07 02:26 AM)
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