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 Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
 
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,586
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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 Effortless effort!  [Re: Diploid]
#6002633 - 08/27/06 09:08 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
He does. You just have to learn how to listen.
See, there's the problem. I've tried to listen. I tried for a decade. Nothing happened that couldn't be attributed to simple psychology. Nothing at all.
Either those who hear God are delusional, or God doesn't like me.
Still, this doesn't answer my question of why God would try to talk to me THROUGH some guy, but not directly.
Stop trying...
Let "God" make an[/the] effort. ;p
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002638 - 08/27/06 09:10 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's just as easy for me to say there is no God and there is no one talkin.
What makes me wrong and a true believer right?
IMO God is the misunderstanding of primitive intelligence, still trapped in it's cultural patterns. All unusual phenomena are interpreted as "God", so as to stay in the safe zone of culture.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002639 - 08/27/06 09:10 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let me tell you a secret: God's "message" isn't so much a message as it is a simple awareness. And one doesn't really "hear" God, but rather feel God. I think that in looking for psychological or neurological explanations, you're neglecting the possibility that your mind is a part of God.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Effortless effort! [Re: Gomp]
#6002642 - 08/27/06 09:14 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Stop trying...
Let "God" make an[/the] effort. ;p
Been there, done that. It didn't work.
Next...
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Silversoul]
#6002654 - 08/27/06 09:18 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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And one doesn't really "hear" God, but rather feel God.
Then count yourself lucky that you are one of the chosen who can hear cuz I've tried everything you're suggesting, and everything dozens of others have suggested, and everything I've read has suggested. I've meditated sober and gone places with drugs many haven't even herd of. I've done it all.
If I discount everything which could just as likely be psychology as divine: Net sum = zero.
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Effortless effort! [Re: Diploid]
#6002656 - 08/27/06 09:18 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Let me tell you a joke:
There was a man who was drowning in the ocean. A rescue helicopter comes to save him, but he says "No thanks, I trust God to save me."
A second helicopter comes, and again he refuses, saying he trusts in God to save him.
A third helicopter comes to save him, and once again, he tells them that he trusts God to save him.
He drowns and goes to heaven. When he gets there, he says "God, why didn't you rescue me?"
God says, "Gee, I don't know what went wrong. I sent three helicopters to come get you."
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002660 - 08/27/06 09:19 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
If I discount everything which could just as likely be psychology as divine: Net sum = zero.
That's your problem: You're making an unnecessary distinction between the mind and God. They are connected, and you refuse to see it.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Silversoul]
#6002666 - 08/27/06 09:21 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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That's your problem
Right. When I can't hear God despite monumental effort, it's my fault. God can't fix things for me. He'd rather just sit around and giggle as I struggle. 
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002673 - 08/27/06 09:24 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Are you listening to a damn word I'm saying? Don't quote me out of context. If you can't listen to me, it's no wonder you can't listen to God.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Silversoul]
#6002677 - 08/27/06 09:25 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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You're saying that God is talking to me, but it's my fault I'm not hearing. At least that's how I read it.
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Shroomerious
OO
Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 3 years, 8 days
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002681 - 08/27/06 09:27 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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My opinion is that most probably, god as some of us think that understand him/her/it, is just a concept stretched way too far. It would have been anyway because of its(the concepts) nature.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002684 - 08/27/06 09:28 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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From what I read, your "efforts" to listen to God did lead to some results, which you promptly dismissed as mere products of your own psychology. I was simply trying to your explain that simply because something occurs in the brain does not mean that it doesn't come from God.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,586
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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Re: Effortless effort! [Re: Diploid]
#6002685 - 08/27/06 09:30 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
Stop trying...
Let "God" make an[/the] effort. ;p
Been there, done that. It didn't work.
Next...
Hahaha...
Quote:
Diploid said:
He does. You just have to learn how to listen.
See, there's the problem. I've tried to listen. I tried for a decade. Nothing happened that couldn't be attributed to simple psychology. Nothing at all.
Either those who hear God are delusional, or God doesn't like me.
Still, this doesn't answer my question of why God would try to talk to me THROUGH some guy, but not directly.
Anyways. never mind it then!
My bad!
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Disclaimer!?
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,586
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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 Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002690 - 08/27/06 09:31 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
You're saying that God is talking to me, but it's my fault I'm not hearing. At least that's how I read it.
What is with this blaming?
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Silversoul]
#6002707 - 08/27/06 09:37 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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From what I read, your "efforts" to listen to God did lead to some results, which you promptly dismissed as mere products of your own psychology. I was simply trying to your explain that simply because something occurs in the brain does not mean that it doesn't come from God.
We're on the same page here.
What you don't understand about me is that I DO NOT allow that something which MIGHT be real, IS real. If there is doubt, then it lands in the "I don't know for sure" basket, and that might as well have not happened.
God must know this about me; he created me, did He not? Why must he play these games? Why does he ALWAYS leave room for doubt?
Does he or does he not not want me to hear the message? He's incompetent if he can't get the message through my thick skull, which he created that way.
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Shroomerious
OO
Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 534
Last seen: 3 years, 8 days
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Gomp]
#6002710 - 08/27/06 09:39 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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+ I can't believe that some of you take some subjective interpretation of how god, whatever that may be, is communicating with you, to produce an objective outcome.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,586
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002717 - 08/27/06 09:41 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Reminds me of an old post...
Edited by Gomp (08/27/06 09:42 PM)
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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 Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002730 - 08/27/06 09:44 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
If I discount everything which could just as likely be psychology as divine: Net sum = zero.
In your opinion, is there ANYTHING in the subjective human experience that could NOT be likely dismissed as psychology or self-deception....?
>^;;^<
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I'll be your midnight French Fry.... 
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 18,283
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: PhanTomCat]
#6002741 - 08/27/06 09:46 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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No, nothing, but some things are supported by a large enough quantity of consistent subjective observations, and backed by a large enough pool of seemingly unrelated but consistent orthogonal observations, that when taken as a whole are enough to convince me.
Not so for God stuff. Not by a long shot.
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"The axioms for a group are short and natural... Yet somehow hidden behind these axioms is the monster simple group, a huge and extraordinary mathematical object, which appears to rely on numerous bizarre coincidences to exist. The axioms for groups give no obvious hint that anything like this exists." -- Richard Borcherds
If there is a creator, he definitely has a sense of humor.
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: God's Disciples: WTF? [Re: Diploid]
#6002744 - 08/27/06 09:47 PM (6 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
From what I read, your "efforts" to listen to God did lead to some results, which you promptly dismissed as mere products of your own psychology. I was simply trying to your explain that simply because something occurs in the brain does not mean that it doesn't come from God.
We're on the same page here.
What you don't understand about me is that I DO NOT allow that something which MIGHT be real, IS real. If there is doubt, then it lands in the "I don't know for sure" basket, and that might as well have not happened.
God must know this about me; he created me, did He not? Why must he play these games? Why does he ALWAYS leave room for doubt?
Does he or does he not not want me to hear the message? He's incompetent if he can't get the message through my thick skull, which he created that way.
I think you demand too much of God. It's easy to think that God can do anything, and therefore must have the ability to reveal Godself to us in a way which defies the laws of the universe. But if the universe comes from God, then it makes sense that rather than defying the laws of the universe, God works through them. I also don't think it matters much to God whether you believe or not. If you listen to God, it's for your own benefit, not for God's. Go ahead and doubt God all you want, but if you ignore God when God speaks to you, then stop complaining about how God won't talk to you.
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