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Invisiblevampirism
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top 10 things the food industry won't tell you
    #5983691 - 08/21/06 01:55 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

I saw this posted in another forum, I thought it might be appreciated here.


1. The ingredients listed on the label aren't the only things in the food. Cancer-causing chemicals such as acrylamides may be formed in the food during high-heat processing, yet there's no requirement to list them on the label. Residues of solvents, pesticides and other chemicals may also be present, but also do not have to be listed. The National Uniformity for Food Act, currently being debated in the U.S. Congress, would make it illegal (yes, illegal) for states to require cancer warnings on foods that contain cancer-causing chemicals (such as California's Proposition 65.) See articles on the Food Uniformity Act.

2. Monosodium glutamate (MSG), which is added to thousands of food and grocery products through a dozen different innocent-sounding ingredients, imbalances endocrine system function, disabling normal appetite regulation and causing consumers to keep eating more food. This chemical not only contributes to nationwide obesity, it also helps food companies boost repeat business. See articles on MSG.

3. MSG is routinely hidden in foods in these ingredients: yeast extract, torula yeast, hydrolyzed vegetable protein and autolyzed yeast. Thousands of common grocery products contain one or more of these chemical taste enhancers, including nearly all "vegetarian" foods such as veggie burgers (read labels to check). See Food manufacturers hide dangerous ingredients in everyday foods by using confusing terms on the label.

4. ADHD in children is caused almost entirely by the consumption of processed food ingredients such as artificial colors and refined carbohydrates. Eighty percent of so-called ADHD children who are taken off processed foods are cured of ADHD in two weeks. See articles on ADHD.


5. The chemical sweetener aspartame, when exposed to warm temperatures for only a few hours, begins to break down into chemicals like formaldehyde and formic acid. Formaldehyde is a potent nerve toxin and causes damage to the eyes, brain and entire nervous system. Aspartame has been strongly linked to migraines, seizures, blurred vision and many other nervous system problems. See articles on aspartame.

6. Most food dips (like guacamole dip) are made with hydrogenated oils, artificial colors and monosodium glutamate. Many guacamole dips don't even contain avocados.

7. Plastic food packaging is a potent health hazard.
Scientists now know that plastics routinely seep the chemical bisphenol A into the food, where it is eaten by consumers. Cooking in plastic containers multiplies the level of exposure. Bisphenol is a hormone disruptor and can cause breast formation in men and severe hormonal imbalances in women. It may also encourage hormone-related cancers such as prostate cancer and breast cancer. See Plastics chemical bisphenol A found to promote prostate cancer in animal studies.

8. Milk produced in the United States comes from cows injected with synthetic hormones that have been banned in every other advanced nation in the world. These hormones help explain why unusually young teenage girls develop breasts at such a young age, or why hormone-related cancers like prostate cancer are being discovered in unprecedented numbers. In order to protect Monsanto, the manufacturer of hormones used in the industry, the USDA currently bans organic milk producers from claiming their milk comes from cows that were not treated with synthetic hormones. Even organic milk is now under fire as the Organic Consumers Association says Horizon milk products are falsely labeled as organic. See Horizon milk, Wild Oats named in consumer boycott of "false" organic products. (The solution to all this? Drink raw almond milk instead. Make it yourself with a Vitamix, water and a nut milk bag.)

9. Most grocery products that make loud health claims on their packaging are, in reality, nutritionally worthless (like meal replacement shakes, instant chocolate milk, etc.). The most nutritious foods are actually those the FDA does not allow to make any health claims whatsoever: fresh produce. See articles on food labeling.

10. Food manufacturers actually "buy" shelf space and position at grocery stores. That's why the most profitable foods (and hence, the ones with the lowest quality ingredients) are the most visible on aisle end caps, checkout lanes and eye-level shelves throughout the store. The effect of all this is to provide in-store marketing and visibility to the very foods and beverages that promote obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease and other degenerative conditions now ravaging consumers around the world. See articles on food marketing.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5983792 - 08/21/06 02:42 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

just the tip of the iceburg. :thumbup:


--------------------

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OfflineOrganic
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5983804 - 08/21/06 02:50 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

1. The ingredients listed on the label aren't the only things in the food. Cancer-causing chemicals such as acrylamides may be formed in the food during high-heat processing




So it is labelled as to what is in the food when buying? You could get carbon if you grill too long, should they list that?

Quote:

2 & 3. Monosodium glutamate (MSG)




I think this was debated in this forum a while back... Seems like it is naturally occuring and has been used for decades/centuries to no ill effect on the Asian culture.

Quote:

4. See articles on ADHD.




Were there any references on this, or was the author suggesting to find that one study on our own?

Quote:

5. The chemical sweetener aspartame,




Thought this was found to be safe recently, unless consumed in obscene amounts.

Quote:

6. Most food dips (like guacamole dip) are made with hydrogenated oils, artificial colors and monosodium glutamate. Many guacamole dips don't even contain avocados.




That's pretty inventive.

Quote:

7. Plastic food packaging is a potent health hazard.




I've heard this before, along with the glue sealant on things like granola/candy bars is toxic...

Quote:

9. Most grocery products that make loud health claims on their packaging are, in reality, nutritionally worthless (like meal replacement shakes, instant chocolate milk, etc.).




How is this possible? They contain nutrients and vitamins, granted, usually not the fiber and same full-spectrum of nutrients found in fruits/vegs...

Quote:

10. Food manufacturers actually "buy" shelf space and position at grocery stores.




I worked at a grocery store once...Coke, Pepsi, Frito Lay were paid to stock those, but it was out in the boonies so that may have something to do with it.

Just thinking out loud.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Organic]
    #5983971 - 08/21/06 04:18 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

western society bad.
thc kills tumors.


--------------------
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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5983986 - 08/21/06 04:23 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Pretty wild claims, and horrible if true. Any sources?


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Invisibleeligal
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5984013 - 08/21/06 04:45 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Morrowind said:
8. Milk produced in the United States comes from cows injected with synthetic hormones that have been banned in every other advanced nation in the world. These hormones help explain why unusually young teenage girls develop breasts at such a young age,





:lol:

I remember having a conversation with my dad not too long ago where we both said that american girls now adays have bigger boobs than women in any other country. We came to the conclusion that it was either their fatty diets or growth horomones given to the cows. Or both...
:tongue2:


--------------------
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respect the can."



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InvisibleNewbieM
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: eligal]
    #5984199 - 08/21/06 05:58 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Is this list from Kevin Trudeau? Becuase I heard his voice was reading the list in my head :lol:


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InvisibleStickyWater
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Newbie]
    #5984303 - 08/21/06 06:43 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:20 PM)


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Offlinejungjedi
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: StickyWater]
    #5984360 - 08/21/06 07:11 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

i hate food


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OfflineOrganic
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: StickyWater]
    #5986723 - 08/22/06 03:28 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Stumbled across a source to this article...

http://www.newstarget.com/019957.html

And the author's "Declaration of Journalistic Independence"
http://www.newstarget.com/015020.html

Draw your own conclusions


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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5987466 - 08/22/06 08:33 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

great post, but I always cringe when someone mentions ADHD

Quote:

Morrowind said:
ADHD in children is caused almost entirely by the consumption of processed food ingredients such as artificial colors and refined carbohydrates. Eighty percent of so-called ADHD children who are taken off processed foods are cured of ADHD in two weeks. See articles on ADHD.




ADHD to my knowledge, still hasn't been "proven" to exist.

as far as solutions go.. I've been trying my best to replace all sugar with Stevia, and all bleached stuff (rice, bread, etc) to unbleached whole grain.


--------------------
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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: kotik]
    #5987481 - 08/22/06 08:41 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

?

how do you get Stevia in decent quantities? Do you live in America btw?


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5988115 - 08/22/06 11:56 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

For as long as I have been on this message board I have constantly tried to raise awareness about financial ties, corruption, and lack of science behind the FDA.

The FDA does not care about you, the American. You are nothing but cows with wallets to them.

Does this fact scare you?
Quote:

The U S. Food and Drug Administration oversees items accounting for 25 cents of every dollar spent by consumers.




it should....


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InvisibleStickyWater
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5988183 - 08/23/06 12:20 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)



Edited by StickyWater (04/29/08 03:19 PM)


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: StickyWater]
    #5988709 - 08/23/06 05:52 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

ADHD exists when compared to what our society deems to be normal behaviour, but there is not one shred of proof that can show ADHD/ADD is caused by different brain chemistry.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5989343 - 08/23/06 01:44 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)


The FDA does not care about you, the American. You are nothing but cows with wallets to them.


Damn right.

The FDA is also in bed with the pharmaceutical industry which it regulates.


--------------------
Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same? - Ron Paul


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Offlinealoofiam
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5989389 - 08/23/06 02:07 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

It would be interesting to see what the human species will evolve into from eating all these processed foods. I can't even imagine. I wish I could come back after 10,000 years of being dead just to see what happens. Just look at how Americans have evolved from the rest of the world in just the last 100 years or so. Americans are turning into a whole other species right before our eyes, a new breed of fatso creatures.


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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: aloofiam]
    #5989403 - 08/23/06 02:16 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)



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I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.

No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: zorbman]
    #5989782 - 08/23/06 05:19 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The FDA is also in bed with the pharmaceutical industry which it regulates.




Thank god they do or you may have been a thalidomide child.


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Invisiblevampirism
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: aloofiam]
    #5989806 - 08/23/06 05:30 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

this is incorrect.. there has been no genetic change in the species, simply a change in the fundamental problems to overcome in the environment. I don't think it would lead to evolution b/c the circumstances are easily overcome with a little bit of work and the problem isn't enough of adanger to kill off the population.



unrelated to your post,
but as to the FDA.. simply calling the FDA a bed-pal of corporate interests is wrong. It's far too simplistic, and gives an incorrect impression. The people working at the FDA are trying to do their best, but their minds can be clouded with ego same as w/ the rest of us.


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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5990494 - 08/23/06 09:17 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

wrong. I am pretty sure it was Vioxx, which was on the chopping block and under scrutiny, more than 50%, I will look for the sources (im at work right now and cant devote that much attention to it right now), but I believe the number was something like 14 out of 21 of the advisory panel that had financial ties to pharmaceutical companies. 3 of them at one point worked for the drug company in question.

later on tonight, I will post here an amazing list of crimes against humanity that the FDA has been involved with/in.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #5991225 - 08/24/06 12:46 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Quote:

The FDA is also in bed with the pharmaceutical industry which it regulates.




Thank god they do or you may have been a thalidomide child.




Evidently you are misunderstanding the phrase "in bed with". It implies a corrupt relationship. The FDA can properly regulate substances such as thalidomide without engaging in corrupt practices.

Collusion between the FDA and Pharmaceutical industry means that there will be more, not fewer, dangerous drugs such as thalidomide in peoples homes.


--------------------
Why does changing the party in power never change policy? Could it be that the views of both parties are essentially the same? - Ron Paul


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: vampirism]
    #5991791 - 08/24/06 07:28 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

http://www.newstarget.com/019497.html

Quote:

June 30, 2006 is a day that will be long remembered as a dark milestone in the history of FDA and its campaign against health consumers. On June 30, an FDA "Final Rule" goes into effect, establishing a regulatory power grab of such scale and scope that it attempts to bypass all laws, the will of Congress and fundamental protections for consumers. This "Final Rule," which may as well be called a "Final Solution" for drug consumers, claims that consumers can no longer sue drug companies for the harm caused by any FDA-approved drug, even if the drug's manufacturer intentionally misled the FDA by hiding or fabricating clinical trial data.

In one blatantly illegal act, the FDA is attempting to pull off the greatest Big Pharma coup of all: The outright elimination of any responsibility whatsoever for the suffering and death caused by deadly pharmaceuticals.




just to get you guys started.....

http://www.catalogueforphilanthropy.org/ma/1997/committee_ten_355.htm

Quote:

COTT's core constituency is the estimated 10,000 hemophiliacs in America who have been infected with the HIV/AIDS virus through medical transfusions of contaminated blood products.

COTT was born in fire during the late 1980s -- half of the entire American hemophiliac community was already infected, and many were sick and dying from full-blown AIDS. No one knew what was happening. Small meetings in New England, called simply for mutual support, evolved rapidly into a nationwide advocacy network as the scope of the tragedy became clear. When the contamination of the nation's blood supply was discovered in 1989, and officially denied, COTT was incorporated in Massachusetts.

COTT gained national credibility when Senator Kennedy and others persuaded the National Academy of Sciences' Institute of Medicine to study the situation. Their 1995 Report, "HIV and the Blood Supply--An Analysis of Crisis Decision-Making" found serious systemic faults in the corporate/government blood monitoring structure of the Food & Drug Administration (FDA). It recommended rewriting the FDA's conflict-of-interest policies, which led to the replacement of the relevant Advisory Committee and the inclusion of COTT representation.




wow, there was a conflict of interest.... which was directly addressed.... where do we see that happening.....still?

BUT WAIT, THE STORY GETS BETTER!!!

Quote:

But HIV/AIDS contamination was just the tip of the iceberg. It was soon discovered that Hepatitis C contamination has infected nearly 300,000 citizens.




Ok, so far we have over 10,000 people infected with HIV due to FDA negligence and financial affiliation with the companies they are supposed to be regulating.... we also have 30,000 people infected with Hep C for the exact same reason.
Then this year we passed a law which makes it impossible to sue anything related to a drug with the FDA seal of "bullshit" approval on it.

Quote:

I am both shocked and appalled at the recent decision by the FDA advisory
panel to re-approve Vioxx and put the stamp of safety on all Cox-2
inhibitors, including Bextra and Celebrex. This vote came immediately after
another vote in which the panel nearly unanimously agreed that all of these
Cox-2 inhibitors significantly increased the risk of heart disease and heart
attacks in patients. You may ask, "How can a panel that just voted to
recognize the greatly increased risk of these drugs turn around and vote to
have them classified as safe for human consumption?" The answer is that they
claim the benefits are worth the risks.




the exact figures are unknown, but they know that atleast 25,000 people died as a direct result of Vioxx... that is atleast, one person has placed the figure at 61,000, while an independant research group placed the number at 55,000.

remember aspartame?

Quote:

Dear Mrs. Reno:

I'm writing to advise you of serious corporate and bureaucratic crimes. Title 18, Section 1001, Criminal Code declares: Whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully -

* (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
* (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation;
* (3) or makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned ...

FDA wanted Searle indicted for fraud, but U.S. Prosecutors Skinner and Conlon switched sides and the statute of limitations expired. Finally, Dr. Arthur Hull Hayes, FDA Commissioner, overruled the Board of Inquiry and approved aspartame and hired with NutraSweet's PR. He has refused to speak to the press ever since. p/quote]

read the link, it gets even worse... http://www.the7thfire.com/health_and_nutrition/aspartame_crimes.htm

Quote:

10 of 32 FDA Vioxx Panelists Had Industry Ties_NYT / Cozy NIH Review "Clears" NIH Industry Ties_WashPost

Fri, 25 Feb 2005

The latest example of the corrupting influence of the pharmaceutical industry on health care policy is the composition of FDA's advisory panel that last week endorsed the marketing of lethal COX-2 pain killers. A front page article in today's New York Times (below) reports that 10 of the 32 panelists on FDA's advisory committee swung the votes last week in favor of allowing the continued marketing of painkillers that induce fatal heart attacks and strokes had ties with those drugs' manufacturers--Pfizer and Merck.

"If the 10 advisers had not cast their votes, the committee would have voted 12 to 8 that Bextra should be withdrawn and 14 to 8 that Vioxx should not return to the market. The 10 advisers with company ties voted 9 to 1 to keep Bextra on the market and 9 to 1 for Vioxx's return."

The 10 panelists were identified by Merril Goozner of The Center for Science in the Public Interest from disclosures in medical journals and other public documents. Other panelists may have similar conflicts that have not yet been identified.

Major, pervasive conflicts of interest among senior scientists at the National Institutes of Health were documented by the Los Angeles Times beginning with a major expose on December 7, 2003. The scope and severity of NIH scientists' conflicts of interest is staggering - 94% of the top paid NIH scientists failed to report their financial deals with pharmaceutical companies. Several Congressional hearings were held in 2004, and a request by Congressional staff sent to just 20--out of several hundred pharmaceutical companies - yielded 100 names of NIH scientists with whom the companies had financial deals. These 100 represent the tip of an iceberg.

The scientists who receive the highest government salaries, continue to deny all and have embarked on a battle against restrictions on their supplemental income. Multiple investigations confirmed the evidence uncovered by the LA Times, leading Dr. Elias Zerhouni, director of NIH, to finally issue new conflict of interest regulations, effective Feb. 3, 2005. But as Dr. Zerhouni predicted, the hardest part is to change the culture at NIH: "It's easy to come up with regulations. It's not easy to change a culture."

The new rules are meant to root out conflicts of interest and prevent major ethical abuses affecting the safety of patients and the integrity of medicine. The new rules will bring NIH staff scientists in line with federal legislation prohibiting government employees from having conflicts of interest or using insider information for self-enrichment.

But the NIH scientists are furious about a requirement that they divest themselves of pharmaceutical company stocks. Incredibly, they seem to have found support from apologists at the Washington Post.

Earlier this week, a front page article, accompanied by an editorial, supported the disgruntled NIH scientists who had used their position and insider knowledge. Scientists at NIH have a sense of entitlement to be free to strike stock option deals with companies for whom they conducted clinical trials, to engage in lucrative lecture and consultancy deals--while drawing the highest level government salaries.





AND THIS IS JUST IN THE LAST 20 YEARS!!!! DO YOU WANT ME TO GO BACK FROM THE BEGINNING OF fda'S INCEPTION AND SHOW YOU MORE CRIMES???

jesus christ people.... wake up. Nothing the FDA has ever done has been directly for the good of the people, it is all for financial gain, enriching and condensing of power. For the last 30 years the FDA has strictly regulated and debarred so many people affiliated with generic drug producers, handing down judgement, punishment and ridicule on those who have broken the law..... but only with generic manufacturers.... while at the same time excusing the big name pharm companies for doing THE EXACT SAME THINGS!

so you not see a pattern here? how in the midst of such bullshit as ADHD/depression/anxiety and all the new designer drugs could you possibly think that you havent been duped into believing one of the biggest bullshit stories ever? how can you think that the FDA is efficient, safe, and scientific? as well as having your best interests in mind?


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OfflineCatalysis
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5991945 - 08/24/06 10:19 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Dude, I work with the FDA on a daily basis. I know exactly what they do. All pharmaceutical manufacturing and testing is highly regulated. As in, higher than anywhere else in the world. You can sit at your computer and say the FDA doesn't do anything but that simply doesn't make it true. The FDA is on site at almost every pharmaceutical company making sure that they follow strict protocols to the letter and if they don't, they can be severely punished. You just site articles from anti-drug websites about the beginning of the AIDs epidemic as if the sole purpose of the FDA was to psychically predict the beginning of a disease or a long-term complication from a drug.

They routinely make pharma companies destroy hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars of perfectly safe drugs over clerical errors, just in case. You obviously will never hear about that.

They succumb to the same flaws of any large bureaucracy and to suggest that these errors mean the FDA is not beneficial is absurd. Maybe they could use some restructuring to eliminate political influence but that is an infinitesimal part of what the FDA does. It is just seized upon by people to grandstand about government corruption and the evil drugs which they will take in a heart-beat when they become severely ill. You will never hear about everything the FDA does that is good because they are things that won't happen and crises that have been averted.

Why don't you go around to some teaching hospitals and see some of the amazing cures and treatments currently being developed and tested to help millions suffering from horrible diseases? Why don't you take a tour of a pharma company to see what the FDA does to protect you when the time comes for you to use one of these medications?



Edited by Catalysis (08/24/06 11:01 AM)


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10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #5992760 - 08/24/06 04:17 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

OF course it is highly regulated, if it weren't any shmuck could create a drug and sell it as "tonic"..... this is one of the main reasons the FDA was created.
But most of those regulations are aimed and created to keep generic manufacturers out and create monopolies within the drug market.

How can we place trust in such an unethical institution? Im sure there are people within FDA who truly try to make decisions based on the good of the people, but most of that gets subjugated in advisory panels and such.

How do you see financial ties to not be a huge issue? We the american people place trust in the FDA and hope that they make decisions in our best interest, but what happens when the corrupt few in power are directly affiliated, financially and prestigiously, with the very companies they are asked to regulate?

This is the equivalent of putting pedophiles in charge making sure children don't have sex!

Its all good that you have "personal experience" with the FDA, but you have yet to attempt to even address any of the issues I have brought up. This isnt some outskirt association which has a bearing upon trivial issues, this is an organization which holds sway on consumables on over 40 cents on every dollar the american consumer spends on them.
We cannot just let "oops" be the apology when something goes wrong within the FDA, because it isn't a little oops, it is a huge fuck-up which affects tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people.


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5993011 - 08/24/06 05:34 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

But most of those regulations are aimed and created to keep generic manufacturers out and create monopolies within the drug market.




Its intellectual property, the foundation of research and development. Of course it has to be protected or the medicine wouldn't exist.

Quote:

How do you see financial ties to not be a huge issue?




Because you are grossly oversimplifying the drug trial process. Its not like a few people are given some random drug and then they go invest in the company, declare it safe, and take their profits. They don't have the power to do that. In fact, they establish protocols under which every company operates. To get a drug on the fast track requires a certain set of criteria be met. They cannot just declare it so if they are holding stock. They can only change the protocol and make it the same for all companies.

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the FDA works. There is no reason to put limitations on government employees' personal investments just because they work at the FDA. Most of them hold a lot of different biotech stock because they have been working in the industry for their entire lives.

Quote:

We the american people place trust in the FDA and hope that they make decisions in our best interest, but what happens when the corrupt few in power are directly affiliated, financially and prestigiously, with the very companies they are asked to regulate?




No, the people do not make the decisions, you are not trusting them with anything. You are trusting the open and transparent system of protocols set up by them such as the clinical trial system.

Did you know.."Anyone may request or petition FDA to change or create an Agency policy or regulation under 21 CFR Part 10.30. This is called a Citizen's Petition and it is one method used to challenge specific approvals by the FDA"?

This is a good start. I suggest you familiarize yourself with it if you ever want to seriously challenge it.


http://www.fda.gov/cder/guidance/index.htm

Specifically concerning the saftey of currently marketed drugs.

http://www.fda.gov/cder/guidance/6657dft.htm



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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #5993504 - 08/24/06 08:28 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Quote:

But most of those regulations are aimed and created to keep generic manufacturers out and create monopolies within the drug market.




Its intellectual property, the foundation of research and development. Of course it has to be protected or the medicine wouldn't exist.




incorrect, we (supposedly) live in a capitalistic society where the basis of price control is directly related to competition, and without competition, a monopoly exists, which isn't really such a huge problem for things like phone service and telecommunications, but it is when certain people need to get certain medicine and cannot afford it due to price gouging (in a sense).
It wouldn't even be a problem if the companies held control of intellectual property for the time of the patent, but aggressivly attacking generic manufacturers to create monopolies is just downright evil.
And I know what you are going to say "do you have any idea how much money it takes to get a drug passed through research?".... no, I don't and you don't either, because drug companies are not mandated to turn over that sort of information. Only one study has ever been done on that matter, which tried to give the appearance of "independance" but was soon discovered that the research team was hired by drug manufacturers themselves.
How about taking a look at every single state medicare program. Almost every single on in the US has floundered due to increased overprescription of useless drugs such as Adderall, and the incredible prices of them.
I cant right now, but I will produce some figures for you which state (this is a rough approx.) that mental "health" drugs such as SSRi's and adderall/ritalin comprise only 25% of medicare prescriptions, yet accounts for over 40% of the medicare budget.

Lets not act like the pharmaceutical industry is hurting for money, it is the wealthiest industry in the world, beating out cosmetics and oil. Not to mention that the pharm industry has the most lobbyists as well as spends, by far, the most money on legislative lobbying.
So, now that we have created diseases and then cures for them, and then made the prices of these drugs skyrocket, the people whom have become dependant upon them now are seeking financial aid from federal sources. I will get you the figure, but it is astounding at how much of the federal and state budget goes into the pockets of big pharma.
I will also find sources showing the amount of money spent on research for "illnessees" like depression and ADHD compared to HIV and cancer research.... but yeah, everyone in the FDA and big pharma has your best intrests at heart, as long as you dont have a real illness.



Edited by psilocyberin (08/24/06 08:31 PM)


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #5993620 - 08/24/06 08:57 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Quote:

How do you see financial ties to not be a huge issue?




Because you are grossly oversimplifying the drug trial process. Its not like a few people are given some random drug and then they go invest in the company, declare it safe, and take their profits. They don't have the power to do that. In fact, they establish protocols under which every company operates. To get a drug on the fast track requires a certain set of criteria be met. They cannot just declare it so if they are holding stock. They can only change the protocol and make it the same for all companies.




did you not read this?

Quote:

FDA wanted Searle indicted for fraud, but U.S. Prosecutors Skinner and Conlon switched sides and the statute of limitations expired. Finally, Dr. Arthur Hull Hayes, FDA Commissioner, overruled the Board of Inquiry and approved aspartame and hired with NutraSweet's PR. He has refused to speak to the press ever since.




or this?

Quote:

I am both shocked and appalled at the recent decision by the FDA advisory
panel to re-approve Vioxx and put the stamp of safety on all Cox-2
inhibitors, including Bextra and Celebrex. This vote came immediately after
another vote in which the panel nearly unanimously agreed that all of these
Cox-2 inhibitors significantly increased the risk of heart disease and heart
attacks in patients. You may ask, "How can a panel that just voted to
recognize the greatly increased risk of these drugs turn around and vote to
have them classified as safe for human consumption?" The answer is that they
claim the benefits are worth the risks.





and then say that I am over-reacting and blowing it out of proportion.
10 people who made the vote possible for Vioxx to basically not be sued later on, were people who owned stock or had financial ties to the manufacturers.... does this make any sense? can you honestly sit there and claim that this decisions wasn't based on financial ties, which resulted in many more deaths so some peoples stocks would go up? how about looking at the stock the week after this decision, it skyrocketed..... but that is just probably coincidence right?

Quote:

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the FDA works. There is no reason to put limitations on government employees' personal investments just because they work at the FDA. Most of them hold a lot of different biotech stock because they have been working in the industry for their entire lives.




when someone goes to trial, jurors are thrown out due to any relationship whatsoever to the defendant or prosecution. Why isn't this the same way? im not asking people to limit their stock options and investments, but lets not allow people with financial ties to the very corporations (defendants) that they will be judging..... make any sense?


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5994836 - 08/25/06 03:37 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Did someone complain about big breasts?


--------------------


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #5995115 - 08/25/06 06:55 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

In 2003 alone, the industry spent nearly $116 million lobbying the government. That was the year that Congress passed, and President George W. Bush signed, the Medicare Modernization Act of 2003, which created a taxpayer-funded prescription drug benefit for senior citizens




Quote:

By adding the benefit to Medicare, the government program that provides health insurance to some 41 million people, the industry found a reliable purchaser for its products. Thanks to a provision in the law for which the industry lobbied, government programs like Medicare are barred from negotiating with companies for lower prices.




Quote:

Critics charge that the prescription drug benefit will transfer wealth from taxpayers, who provide the funding for Medicare, to pharmaceutical firms. According to a study done in October 2003 by Boston University professors Alan Sager and Deborah Socolar, 61 percent of Medicare money spent on prescription drugs will become profit for drug companies. Drug-makers will receive $139 billion in increased profits over eight years, the study predicts. The Medicare prescription drug benefit starts in 2006.




Quote:

The U.S. government contributes more money to the development of new drugs—in the form of tax breaks and subsidies—than any other government. Of the 20 largest pharmaceutical corporations, nine are based in the United States. Yet drugs are more expensive in the United States than in any other part of the world, and global drug companies make the bulk of their profits in the United States.




Quote:

More than a third of pharmaceutical companies' resources go into promotion and marketing.




I guess the other two thirds go into R&D huh?

Quote:


lobbying research
Pfizer $16.90 billion $7.68 billion
GlaxoSmithKline $12.93 billion $5.20 billion
Sanofi-Aventis $5.59 billion $9.26 billion
Johnson & Johnson $15.86 billion $5.20 billion
Merck $7.35 billion $4.01 billion
Novartis $8.87 billion $4.21 billion
AstraZeneca $7.84 billion $3.80 billion
Hoffman La Roche $7.24 billion $4.01 billion
Bristol-Myers Squibb $6.43 billion $2.50 billion
Wyeth $5.80 billion $2.46 billion
Abbott Labs $4.92 billion $1.70 billion




Quote:

Annually, the industry spends nearly twice as much on marketing as it spends on research and development, although drug companies report neither total precisely. Various news reports estimate that the industry spent anywhere between $30 billion to $60 billion on marketing in 2004.




Quote:

As the Center reported in January, the industry trade group, Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, hired a former U.S. ambassador to Canada, Gordon Giffin, and his top aide to lobby the Canadian government on the issue. The industry's pressure may be paying off. Last week, Canadian Health Minister Ujjal Dosanjh announced that his government would ban the bulk export of prescription drugs and crack down on Internet pharmacies that sell drugs to Americans.




fighting tooth and nail so that free trade doesn't affect the monopoly and heaven forbid start forcing a natural price control.
But wait, I thought the FDA, our government, and Big pharma were saviours, who make these "life saving drugs" like viagra, prozac, adderall and vioxx.....

Now.... sure lobbying is legal... but lets add all of this up and see what it does to squeeze out all these other companies that don't have our government lapping from their hands.
When we create monopolies like this, we make those companies the only ones who can supply us with old and new drugs, which basically gives them the sole rights to the entire Federal funds allocated for viral and tropical disease research.... we are talking billions here, yet somehow R&D has been on a steady decline across all companies when it comes to HIV.

So basically, these companies get to decide what our country prioritizes for developing cures, and the numbers don't lie, according to all the major pharma companies, HIV takes a way back seat to High Cholesterol/blood pressure, ADHD, depression, anxiety, erectile dysfunction and yes.... even the greatest threat to the decency and future health of all americans: RESTLESS LEG SYNDROME!!!!!

but seriously.... if you still don't even slightly see my point and wish to write me off as a loudmouthed asshole with some chip on his shoulder and a personal vendetta/agenda.... please think about this:

Imagine what would happen if the billions spent on drug advertisement and lobbying went into real research towards AIDs... instead of trying to give your 7 year old amphetamines, or pushing a known harmful drug into the hands of those 60,000 people that died from Vioxx.


Mod edit: That comic was about 60,000 times too large to post. If you NEED to repost it, please resize it first.


Edited by JacquesCousteau (08/31/06 08:58 AM)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5995147 - 08/25/06 07:56 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Just a quick thing to add psilo, there's a large difference between a privately held pharmaceutical corporation investing in developing a new drug, and federal funding.

Generally speaking federal funding provides academic scientists (e.g. college professors) with the money required to perform research. If a researcher comes up with a new drug/compund etc. it is his/her intellectual property, and thus big pharma won't profit off of it. So there is little incentive.

Regardless of whether or not someone can "prove" how much a drug costs to develop it is in fact enormous. You can get an idea of this by looking at federally funded research projects. Government grants are public knowledge. You can only imagine how much it costs to develop a drug, when you look at the cost of a much "simpler" non-human science study. The excessive amount of spending on advertising is necessary to turn a profit.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5996812 - 08/25/06 07:21 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Please remove that picture, its too large for most resolutions.

Quote:


incorrect, we (supposedly) live in a capitalistic society where the basis of price control is directly related to competition




There is competition, you just refuse to acknowledge it. Look at genentech or amgen or any of these companies that started small and got huge due to their revolutionary medicines such as those for diabetes and Alzheimer's which were better than the competing drugs. Where would these companies be if a powerhouse like Abbott could just take the chemical formula and sell it on a large scale for free? You aren't really thinking this out.

Quote:

did you not read this?




You keep referring the vioxx debacle as though this happens on a daily basis. It is well understood as a lapse in the normally thorough drug review process, even requiring the FDA to modify protocols for current drug safety which, up until then, were thought by everyone to be sufficient. There are publications in the scientific literature by independent researchers showing no connection between heart problems and vioxx. This was the problem, it was not picked up in the analysis of available data. You can criticize the shortcomings of the FDA, particularly the rule that requires evidence of harm before ordering a recall, but I don't see how you can suggest that this is a regular (or even intended) thing.

Quote:

Imagine what would happen if the billions spent on drug advertisement and lobbying went into real research towards AIDs.




American pharma companies and scientists are on the bleeding edge of HIV research. I can't force you to educate yourself on the state of the field so there is not much more I can say. America has by far and away the best therapy drugs for HIV in the world. The HIV science is there, it is published and it is open. There is no room for conspiracy theories because it is right there for any scientifically inclined individual to see.


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #6007178 - 08/29/06 04:48 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

history lesson:

In the beginning of 2000, there was a lawsuit brought up regarding advertisement of off-label use to doctors. If either of you know anything about the legal history of the FDA, you will know that much debate and litigation has taken place involving "mislabeling". As the amendments and Acts were appealed and enforced it basically came down to this simple statement: "To secure Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for a drug or medical device, a manufacturer must demonstrate that its product is safe and effective for each of its
intended uses...It will often be discovered after initial FDA approval, however, that a drug has uses other than those for which it was intended".

So basically, for each intended use of a drug, it has to show efficacy and safety in trials, and any other "goading" or "misleading" labelling will be illegal.

So, Big pharma found a way around this - they just tell doctors through different means of communication to prescribe these drugs off-label.

(i hope you are following this, because it is a very big set up for my main argument)

At this point a certain FDA commissioner created protocol which made this illegal, or basically made the act of disseminating off-label persuasion from pharm corps to doctors reprehensible under the "mislabel" laws - the very laws which are the core and mother of the FDA.

That commissioners name was Jane E. Henney, appointed by Bill Clinton and confirmed by the senate. She was commissioner for exactly 2 years and 2 days until the Bush administration took office and fired her.

Not a big deal, Im sure it happens all the time.

but back to the litigation. The Washington Legal Foundation claims that it is a violation of the First Amendment. Of course they won the appeal to overturn a previous courts ruling on the matter and to this day off-label use generates an impressive chunk (billions) of Big Pharma revenue.... but one did get a 343 million dollar slap on the wrist...

Quote:

In May 2004, Pfizer subsidiary Warner-Lambert agreed to plead guilty and pay more than $430 million to settle all Justice Department charges related to the off-label marketing of its epilepsy drug Neurontin, which the company promoted as a treatment for everything from migraine and attention deficit disorder to drug-withdrawal seizures and bipolar disorder.




Quote:

argument synopsis so far for those of you who don't want to read: Clinton's appointed FDA commissioner makes protocol which regulates procedure of off-label "persuasion", litigation ensues and it is overturned by an appellate court under the guise of 1st amendment, so now doctors are given "incentives" (use your imagination) to prescribe designer drugs for everything from athletes foot to epileptic siezures.




Now lets see what the Bush Administration did: appointed Mark B. McClellan who was with us for a little over 2 years until he hit a snag and Bush had to use him as a scapegoat.

Quote:

During McClellan's tenure as Commissioner of the FDA, the makers of Plan B emergency contraception applied for over-the-counter status. The application for OTC status was supported by the American Medical Association, the American Academy of Family Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, and other leading U.S. medical organizations.[1] On December 16, 2003, an advisory committee to the FDA recommended that Plan B be made available over the counter.




So, analysis and further testing was done as a mere formality before Plan B was available OTC.... but get this...

Quote:

in May 2004 the FDA rejected over-the-counter status for Plan B. Subsequently, Reuters reported that in a sworn statement in June 2006, Dr John Jenkins, director of the FDA's Office of New Drugs, stated under oath that he learned in early 2004 that then-FDA Commissioner Mark McClellan had decided against approval before the staff could complete their scientific analysis




hmmmm, so we have 5 legitimate and respected medical organizations giving the stamp of approval, and two internal FDA committees reccommending something which is denied by one man..... BUT WHY?

Quote:

In a separate sworn deposition, Dr Florence Houn said she was also told in January by Deputy Commissioner Dr Janet Woodcock that Plan B needed to be rejected "to appease the administration's constituents" but that it could be approved later.




So, now we have a "TRANSPARENT" (wink, wink) organization which caters to republican constituents. I think anyone who keeps up with modern politics can tell you that republican constituents aren't really the deeply scientific crowd, and are more concerned about angering God..... real transparent.

Quote:

argument cliff notes: Bush assigns a puppet as FDA commissioner to shut down Plan B which is given the green light for over the counter use by 5 respected medical organizations as well as two internal FDA committee's because Bush's constituents didn't like Plan B. So he takes the fall for Bush, is fired to save face for Bush. Fda remains a transparent organization in some peoples eyes.




lets move on to Dr. Lester M. Crawford. This guy is fun. He was assigned by Bush as well. This guy was screwed from the beginning... walking into controversy over Plan B, as well as having stock in companies he presided over as commissioner.

Quote:

The next month, financial disclosure forms released by the Department of Health and Human Services showed that in 2004 either Dr. Crawford or his wife, Catherine, had sold shares in companies regulated by the agency when he was its deputy commissioner and acting commissioner. He has since joined a Washington lobbying firm, Policy Directions Inc.




if that wasn't enough, he also had to take ANOTHER fall for Bush regarding Plan B (how is that transparency and "one time Vioxx" theory holding up?).

Quote:

Before Dr. Crawford's confirmation, the secretary of health and human services, Michael O. Leavitt, promised that the F.D.A. would act on the Plan B application by September 2005, a promise that led two Democratic senators, Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York and Patty Murray of Washington, to relent in their efforts to delay the nomination. But after he was confirmed, Dr. Crawford announced an indefinite delay that has remained in effect.




Quote:

argument cliff notes: Bush assigns a new guy to FDA commissioner. That lasts 3 months. He has to face a grand jury regarding questionable actions and conversations regarding Plan B as well as financial ties (stock) to corporations he was presiding over as commissioner. He resigns, but not before he put Plan B on hold indefinitely




Now, Andrew C. von Eschenbach, is waiting to be voted in, but what is this in the news I hear? Plan B again? merely coincidences. i swear.

also, if this vioxx thing only happened once, then what are these?

Quote:

"In 1959 Wallace and Tiernan put a new tranquilliser, Dornwal, on the market despite the strenuous objections of its own medical director. Other company experts warned that Dornwal could cause serious and possibly fatal blood damage. They were right. Wallace and Tiernan failed to send to the FDA reports of side-effects which induced nine cases of bone marrow disease and three deaths from using the drug (Johnson, 1976) [15a] ....

"One could list a number of similar types of cases. Johnson and Johnson's subsidiary, McNeil Laboratories, was denounced by the FDA for concealing information on side-effects of Flexin which according to Johnson (1976) included the drug being associated with 15 deaths from liver damage. Such more blatant cases are merely the tip of an iceberg of selective misinformation.

"The most dramatic recent case has been the disclosures in the British Parliament and US Congress that Eli Lilly and Co. knew of the dangers of Opren, an anti-arthritic drug associated with 74 deaths in Britain alone, 15 months before the drug was withdrawn (Sunday Times, 27 February 1983)....

"The problem is not restricted to Anglo-Saxon countries. In November 1982, a Japanese company, Nippon Chemiphar, admitted to presenting bogus data to the Japanese Government with its application to market a pain-killer and anti-inflammation drug under the brand name of Norvedan. The company submitted cooked up data to the Government in the name of Dr Harcio Sampei, chief of plastic surgery at Nippon University. The good doctor had accepted 2.4 million Yen in cash from the company in return for permission to use his name. More disturbing are similar allegations on another Nippon Chemiphar product. The company denies cooking data on this second product. But the worrying aspect of the second scandal is that a former company researcher claims to have submitted a written report alleging fraud in drug testing by Nippon Chemiphar to the Japanese Health and Welfare Ministry; Ministry officials, he alleges, chose to ignore the report (Japan Times, 23, 24, 25 November 1982)."





but im just a crazy conspiracy theorist right? i somehow made all the dots connect as I adjusted my tinfoil hat.

its kind of funny how the two biggest industries: oil and pharma had record breaking gains. oil..... and pharma..... war on terrorism..... war on drugs.....

i think i need to put on another layer of tinfoil!!!


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6007862 - 08/29/06 01:01 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

So would you be in favor of giving the FDA MORE power and leverage, so they could pass things like PlanB? or less? (To prevent things like vioxx?)

Off-label usage: I tend to agree with the ruling, freedom of speech. Health care professionals will talk you cannot stop them. The reason these indications are "OFF-LABEL", is because the FDA hasn't approved them. But wait, doesn't the FDA approve everything??? Wouldn't the big pharma companies that own the FDA profit from gaining an accepted use (rather than having it "off-label")? Surely they could snap there fingers and have it so.

"In 1959 Wallace and Tiernan put a new tranquilliser, Dornwal, on the market despite the strenuous objections of its own medical director. Other company experts warned that Dornwal could cause serious and possibly fatal blood damage. They were right. Wallace and Tiernan failed to send to the FDA reports of side-effects which induced nine cases of bone marrow disease and three deaths from using the drug (Johnson, 1976) [15a] ..."

IMO the key words: "FAILED TO SEND.." again, should we give the FDA more power to crack down on these people?? All your reports concern data and info the companies FAILED to send the FDA. The FDA cracked down on them. This is the reason we have the FDA.

I'm assuming you wouldn't be in favor of a pharmaceutical "free-for-all" where any product can be marketed to anyone, at anytime with no testing. The bureaucracy needs to be shaped up, but it does get it's job done a lot of the time.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: badchad]
    #6009082 - 08/29/06 07:10 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

no, not at all. I am pointing out the flaws in the FDA and its beuracracy of trust.
Also, most of these crimes come with merely monetary penalties for the parties involved, no one goes to jail, yet when a street dealer gives some girl x and she overdoses by taking too much, that person gets manslaughter.

I think the FDA is great, in theory, but where it stands right now, it is merely a conglomeration of formalities. As I studied the history of the FDA, from its inception to present, I found a lot of its actions worthy and generally for the good of the people. but in the last 20-30 years, it has failed the people miserably.

The FDA is one of the most powerful federal organizations and has been severly tainted by corruption. Big Pharma lobbies the government, and our government appoints much of the FDA hierarchy. I also think this needs to be changed, why give one appointed person who is in the pocket of the president at large complete veto control over matters where millions of federal funding are done towards research of certain subjects?

I agree that we need the FDA, and it has done some great things for the good of the american people, in the past, but recently has yet to make one good move and seems that it will continue in this fashion.
After all of this debate, do you truly think that the FDA is transparent? do you think the FDA has a minimal amount of corruption? do you think the FDA has no financial ties and links to the very corporations they are trusted to control? Do you think that I am blowing this out of proportion? especially when the greater part of my posts/argument stems from quotation of court cases, .gov webpages or news sources?


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6009543 - 08/29/06 09:31 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

This is all about your own political ideology. You bitch about vioxx but you were for rushing plan B to OTC status? Absolutely ridiculous. First you are against the drugs that are being approved and now you are suddenly all for using overdoses of hormonal contraceptives for after-the-fact birth control without prescription.

You do realize that vioxx was deemed safe by similar organizations to those you cited and the FDA, right? In one case these organizations have no credibility, yet they are authoritative experts on another simply because it follows with your ideology and can be used in an anti-bush rant. What if we find that with OTC availability, taking large doses of these hormones on a regular basis is not healthy? There is little doubt as to who you would blame.

You are merely seizing upon the issues to push your own political agenda.

Quote:

also, if this vioxx thing only happened once, then what are these?




When did I say the "vioxx thing" only happened once? You are just making up a position, putting the words in my mouth, and then debating with yourself. Citing incidents from 47 and 24 years ago hardly counters my actual statement that this does not happen on a daily basis.


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Re: 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #6009654 - 08/29/06 10:09 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

1) vioxx and plan B are two seperate events, with nothing in common. There is no "rushing" of Plan B here. If you would have read my post, you would see that Plan B was scheduled for OTC use years ago... where as Vioxx withheld information and doctoreed reports so that it would be deemed safe for public consumption. Two completely different things.
2) I never once denied the credibility of certain medical organizations, nor was that my core argument. Talk about nitpicking....
3) when has lack of information regarding long term affect ever been an issue in whether or not a drug gets approved? when has a drug been on hold because they wanted to wait 2-3 years to see if there were any delayed affects not present in the experiments?
4) you are implying that I am behind Plan B going OTc, frankly I could give two shits either way, but it was important to prove to you just how "transparent" the FDA is. i took no side in this issue, and merely pointed out that the FDA has failed as a scientifically based authority on the safety of drugs and has become a lobbied, and politically controlled republican pet.

5) the new england medical journal revised its protocol to not allow anyone with financial ties to pharmaceutical companies to write reviews of certain drugs, which then had to be re-written, because no one was able to publish articles, since EVERYONE was financially tied to the pharmaceutical companies, so they had to make a provision which stated if you have recieved less than 10,000$ in gifts or money, then you could write an article reviewing a drug.

So, yes, there are plenty of articles by "respected" scientists which find no link between Vioxx and heart problems. Im willing you could find a science article that has a scientist saying adderall cures jock itch, if you look hard enough.


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InvisibleAz0thM
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Catalysis]
    #6014189 - 08/31/06 01:57 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Catalysis said:
Dude, I work with the FDA on a daily basis. I know exactly what they do. All pharmaceutical manufacturing and testing is highly regulated. As in, higher than anywhere else in the world. You can sit at your computer and say the FDA doesn't do anything but that simply doesn't make it true. The FDA is on site at almost every pharmaceutical company making sure that they follow strict protocols to the letter and if they don't, they can be severely punished. You just site articles from anti-drug websites about the beginning of the AIDs epidemic as if the sole purpose of the FDA was to psychically predict the beginning of a disease or a long-term complication from a drug.





So since they follow strict protocols that makes the things they regulate safe to consume by humans? I don't follow your logic.

Why don't you ask the FDA, why they are trying to regulate herbal products, despite congress' passage of the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act.. so as to require expensive lab testing, in order to phase out small herbal manufacturers due to the burdensome cost of the expenses those regulations impose? The "Good Manufacturing Process". The exact same legislation that is being promoted worldwide by the pharmaceutical cartels.

The unstated purpose of the FDA, and similar organizations in many other countries, is and always has been the protection of major pharmaceutical company profits. Expensive testing protocols act as a way to keep drugs and herbs within the control of the international cartels. While such tests may make sense for newly synthesized drugs with no track record in cultural tradition or popular usage, they are inappropriate for herb and food products, especially those with a long history of usage.


Why don't we look at the shining history of the FDA as our first example. Who have been engaging in police-state like activities since their inception.


Quote:

Dr Burzynski of Houston, Texas, has been harassed by the FDA for over a decade because of his pioneering and controversial use of a preparation he calls "antineoplastons" in the treatment of otherwise untreatable brain tumors.

In 1991 five experts from the National Cancer Institute visited Burzynski's clinic, reviewed the records of seven of Burzynski's patients with "incurable" brain tumors. In their report, they verified anti-cancer activity in all seven cases, as well as five complete remissions. In spite of the NCI's recommendation for further study and clinical trials, harassment of Burzynski and his patients and seizure of his clinical records and files continued.

"In 1983, FDA filed civil suit in federal court to stop Dr. Burzynski from manufacturing or treating patients with antineoplastons. In a motion dated May 2, 1983 and signed by Robert Spiller, the FDA's Associate Chief Counsel for Enforcement, the FDA warned Federal Judge Gabrielle McDonald that the FDA would not take "no" for an answer." In spite of this threat, Judge McDonald specifically declined to prevent Dr. Burzynski from treating patients in Texas, because she recognized that Burzynski's intrastate operations were not proper areas of jurisdiction for the FDA. From the details of the FDA's legal strategy, it is clear that the FDA had been frustrated in its attempts to prove that Burzynski engaged in unauthorized interstate shipment of his experimental medicine, as this is the only means by which it could obtain jurisdiction to prosecute him. Multiple grand jury hearings failed to yield any indictments of Burzynski.

In an interview in January 1982, Dr. Richard J. Crout of the FDA, revealed the FDA's motive for targetting Dr. Burzynski for destruction: "I never have and never will approve a new drug to an individual, but only to a large pharmaceutical firm with unlimited finances," declared Dr. Crout. The next year, the FDA began its vendetta against Burzynski, an individual with limited finances.




Quote:

1950's, Maine: Wilhelm Reich, M.D., in one of the most infamous cases of FDA thuggery, was railroaded through the courts for his unorthodox views on medicine, politics, and society in general. His books and research journals were incinerated. Dr. Reich died in prison and his coworker, Dr. Michael Silvert, committed suicide after being released from prison. The FDA harassed many associated with Reich, and carried out invasions of these individuals' homes without warrant or court order. Such actions were typical of the raids generally conducted during the McCarthy period. [are] [fre1] Reich himself was well aware of the mechanisms behind such abuses of power, as evidenced by his book, The Mass Psychology of Fascism




Quote:

1950's, U.S.: Harry Hoxsey's herbal formulas for the treatment of cancer were targetted for obliteration by the FDA, after Hoxsey refused to sell his formula to Morris Fishbein, president of the AMA. The formulas were used in dozens of clinics across the USA during the 1950s.




Quote:

Dr. Royal Rife's methods for microscopically viewing viral activity within living cells may have yielded a major breakthrough in cancer treatment, yet before it could be thoroughly investigated, the AMA threatened and harassed physicians who dared explore the new methods. Some of these physicians died mysteriously. Rife died an embittered man in 1971.

Since Rife's death, many alternative health businesses have jumped on the bandwagon to promote Rife's suppressed techniques. However, many of them may be selling bogus imitations, discrediting Rife's work more effectively than any FDA harassment could possibly accomplish.




Quote:

1990: Max Gerson's dietary treatments for degenerative diseases were criminalized by the FDA just as he was publishing scientific evidence and clinical reports on their effectiveness in boosting immune system function.




Quote:

1987, Florida: The Life Extension Foundation was raided by armed FDA agents, who seized nutritional supplement supplies, files, and personal belongings. Lawsuits against the FDA are still pending.




Quote:

1990, California: The FDA raided and ransacked the pet food store of Sissy Harrington-McGill. FDA agents stated that her pet store literature claiming that vitamins would keep pets healthy was a violation of the Health Claims Law, which was never passed by Congress. Ms. Harrongton-McGill served 114 days in prison, after being tried and convicted by a judge without a jury trial, in spite of her request for a jury trial. Lawsuits have been filed against the FDA.




Quote:

1991, California: FDA agents raided NutriCology, a nutrition supplement company operated by Stephen Levine, Ph.D., a molecular geneticist from the UC Berkeley. Levine spent $500,000 to defend against three different FDA injunctions, all of which were thrown out of court.




Quote:

1992, Washington state: FDA agents raided and terrorized the medical clinic of Jonathan Wright, M.D. The FDA initiated the raid after a recent batch of contaminated B-vitamins was discovered in another state, yet Wright's clinic had no connection to the company making the contaminated vitamins and dis not use their products. In spite of this, the FDA agents removed most of the clinic's contents, meanwhile terrorizing patients and treating them like criminals. As of 1993, no clinic property has been returned, yet no charges against the clinic or any of its employees have been filed by the FDA.




Quote:

1992, California: David Halpern, several of his family members, and the presidents of three European vitamin companies are charged with 198 counts of conspiracy and smuggling for importing banned nutritional supplements that are freely available in Britain and Germany. The indictments carry a potential prison term of 990 years.




Quote:

1992, Texas: The FDA induced the Texas Department of Health and Texas Department of Food and Drug to raid over a dozen major health food stores. Over 250 products were seized from the shelves, including vitamin C, zinc, herbs, aloe vera, and flaxseed oil. Following a massive public outcry, FDA threatened health food store owners, "Don't talk to the press, or we'll come down on you twice as hard.". No charges were ever filed by the FDA, and no products were ever returned.




Quote:

1993, USA: Dozens of natural healing clinics, health food stores and natural product manufacturers throughout the U.S. were assaulted by combined forces from the FDA, DEA, IRS, Customs, and US Postal Service in commando-style SWAT raids. Stocks of vitamins and herbs were confiscated as well as bank accounts, automobiles, and computers. Especially of interest as a target of the raids were mailing lists of customers and clients. The Postal Service assisted in the actions by blocking all mail to some of the businesses, effectively preventing them from continuing any business and from conducting effective legal defense.




That's just a small sample. What we're dealing with here is more of a mob than an organization designed to help monitor the safety of food and drug products. The extreme thug-like behaviour of the FDA is what forced congress to pass the Dietary Supplement and Health Education Act in the first place, to protect the access of consumers to nutritional supplements and herbal products.

You may work with the FDA every day but that certainly doesn't mean you have priviledged access and knowledge of the inner-workings of their organization. Especially when you're dealing with a branch of the US Government.


Quote:


They routinely make pharma companies destroy hundreds of thousands, not millions of dollars of perfectly safe drugs over clerical errors, just in case. You obviously will never hear about that.




Health care decisions are made increasingly more often by small cadres of "specialists" who decide whether this or that medication will be made available to the american public. Where scientific evidence was once the criteria for extended use of a new medication, such decisions are today being made more on the basis of profits which can be made from a particular medication. Many of the top physician-bureaucrats working in the FDA, NIH, ACS, etc.. are themselves often drug-company millionaires, with personal stock holdings or investments in the very companies they "regulate". . Drug companies provide large sums to political campaigns so as to definitively influence legislation, and to various medical institutes, to "research" their products. Their full-page color advertisements for new drugs in medical journals essentially pay for those publications. Pharmaceutical companies are one of the highest profit margin industries in the U.S. who do not have to account for the often extreme prices they charge - higher than anywhere else in the world. Drug company money plays a powerful role in shaping health policy, the approval process for new patent drugs, and publishing (or censoring) research findings about the effectiveness or side-effects of those drugs.

Additionally, nearly every major medical organization and medical society in the USA, including governmental agencies like the FDA, NIH, and ACS... spend significant sums of money each year to fund unfactual, even slanderous propaganda against relatively inexpensive natural healing methods, which might otherwise substitute for the expensive and often toxic medications and surgical procedures pushed by the medical-pharmaceutical cartel.

"Quack-busting" groups, such as the National Council Against Health Fraud, team up with various medical societies, licensing boards, and the FDA to efficiently snoop upon and "police" the medical community, making sure that only the most orthodox medical treatments will prevail... Word quickly spreads through the medical gossip system, if a doctor does not prescribe the usual drugs or treatments. Any doctor employing vitamins, herbs, nutrition, energetic medicine, chelation therapy, or any other progressive, innovative or unorthodox treatment can expect great pressure from these groups, up to and including visits from aggressive, gun-waving "health-care" policemen.



Quote:


Why don't you go around to some teaching hospitals and see some of the amazing cures and treatments currently being developed and tested to help millions suffering from horrible diseases?





Why don't you ask the FDA, why they crack down and discredit unorthodox treatments and amazing cures for these horrible diseases that WORK and can be provided to the public for EXTREMELY CHEAP?

Why don't you ask the FDA, why they promote drugs that have KNOWN long-term side effects, that can complicate the very disease they are treating, and in fact create new diseases?

Why don't you ask the FDA why they allow food products which contain ingredients known to cause CANCER, HEART DISEASE, OSTEOPOROSIS, DIABETES, and a SLEW of other diseases, to be placed on the shelves as "safe"?

Why don't you ask them why they "regulate" and help promote the very same pharmaceutical drugs that treat those very same diseases?

The answer is because they are only in it for the money. They don't give two shits about the public health. Never have.


--------------------
~Thought Creates Reality~


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: Az0th]
    #6014713 - 08/31/06 08:52 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

One thing you have to consider, however, is that the FDA is an American entity. Science, and research however, are worldwide. Thus, if herbal remedies truly had a clear-cut benefit, they more than likely would be discovered. A country like China for example, would love nothing more than to cure brain cancer, win the noble prize and take credit for it.

The fact is, you can try to invoke the spirit of the bear to cure brain cancer by eating apricot seeds. You can eat a piece of moss, and have an all night shamanistic ritual to try and cure your ailments, but there is little evidence this actually works.

The FDA is attempting to regulate "dietary supplements" because of the unknown effects. Again, we have a case where you cite all the evils and side effects of medicine and essentially offer the alternative of: "But pump yourself full of pounds of herbal extracts".

The FDA suffers from many problems, but taken as a whole the safety of drugs approved have a good track record.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: badchad]
    #6014744 - 08/31/06 09:33 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thus, if herbal remedies truly had a clear-cut benefit, they more than likely would be discovered.




Quite a few of the drugs "discovered" by Big Pharma were with the help of the shaman of the rain forests etc. who know which herbs and plants are of benefit for what particular condition people have. They know this from generations of knowledge and practice passed on from their shaman ancestors. Just because they learned the benefits of whatever herb or plant from trial and error and don't know the chemical name of the active ingredient doesn't make the benefit any less real. Sure, Big Pharma goes on to "discover" (isolate) the active ingredient in the plant the shaman told their field researcher about, synthetically reproduce it, put it in a pill in a clean room using GMP, and come up with a fancy marketing scheme and print and TV ads that look like the people using this "new" miracle drug are SO happy while making profits so obscene I won't even go there...



--------------------
Don't submit to dogma.


Edited by LunarEclipse (08/31/06 09:34 AM)


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #6014767 - 08/31/06 10:01 AM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

Quite a few of the drugs "discovered" by Big Pharma were with the help of the shaman of the rain forests etc. who know which herbs and plants are of benefit for what particular condition people have. They know this from generations of knowledge and practice passed on from their shaman ancestors. Just because they learned the benefits of whatever herb or plant from trial and error and don't know the chemical name of the active ingredient doesn't make the benefit any less real.






I agree completely. My point, is that regardless of where a compound comes from it takes an enormous amount of research to "prove" its therapeutic benefit. Unless you've done it yourself, few are familiar with appropriate scientific design.

Do I discredit herbal/natural therapies? no. However, stories that begin with: "My grandfather had terminal brain cancer and went to Eastnowhereistan, where he was cured with sacred cow flatulence" have little relevance. Reproduce the results with appropriate scientific design, I will make my conclusions based on the data.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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Re: top 10 things the food industry won't tell you [Re: badchad]
    #6015240 - 08/31/06 02:05 PM (6 years, 8 months ago)

Did I mention anything like that? No, I didn't even begin talking about herbs, my post was about the FDA.


Fact: A good <70% of modern "miracle" pharmaceuticals are derived from plants grown in the Amazon rainforest that have been known cures for diseases for thousands of years to the local shamans. However, these shamans along with these plants and the extensive knowledge of these plants are becoming fewer and fewer, as the rainforest is VERY quickly being destroyed in the name of the "beef and lumber industries". Most of which is due to the US. An irreplaceable ecosystem with unlimited resources is being completely destroyed for a temporary and severely inefficient industry. But that's not what this post is about.


Quote:


One thing you have to consider, however, is that the FDA is an American entity. Science, and research however, are worldwide. Thus, if herbal remedies truly had a clear-cut benefit, they more than likely would be discovered. A country like China for example, would love nothing more than to cure brain cancer, win the noble prize and take credit for it.





You are very correct sir. And in fact there are many countries that have studied herbs quite extensively with proper scientific design.. Germany and India being one of the leaders in this category. Then you have China, which has been using hundreds of different herbs from what we have here, to treat any number of diseases, with a good track record of thousands of years. I don't care to link you to any sources at the moment, but if you did your research you would discover there is a wide variety of herbs that are extremely beneficial in treating or even completely curing a wide variety of diseases. This is of course most beneficial with a healthy diet.

The problem is not that the FDA is attempting to regulate herbs. In fact, herbs NEED to be regulated, since many herbs must be taken with caution, are not for everyone, etc. And there is a widespread false advertising in the herbal community as a result of this non regulation. Just as well, potency, quality, and even cross-contamination is a major problem since herbs are not regulated. As such one must obtain quality herbs from trusted, reliable sources.. and one must do their own research about the properties of the herb, it wont be listed on the box or whatever you buy it in, and they are allowed to make false or misleading claims. The problem is, given their track record.. the FDA is not the organization that needs to regulate herbs. They would impose strict regulations and very expensive testing that almost all of these small scale farms could simply not afford, putting them out of business completely.

The fact is that most herbs have been used safely by cultures around the world for thousands of years. There are known medical treatments, known side-effects, long-term and short. We know what herb treats what disease. We don't need strict regulation on herbs, requiring these small companies to undergo the same extensive testing that new pharmaceutical drugs require. It would only phase out the small companies and the pharmaceutical companies would reign supreme. And I guarantee you they wouldn't be selling herbs. They might put some part of some herbal extract into their pill (which they do now with a lot of pills), and then sell it to you for exhorbant prices. All we need is some regulation on herbs, requiring those seling herbs to undergo quality testing... to ensure quality... and have a general statement and warnings for each herb.. similar to "Vitamin C does this to your body"... it's the same thing.

But the fact is plenty of proper scientific study has been done on plenty of herbs. Name your herb and I'll show you the research on it. As I said, Germany is very heavy into the scientific research of herbal medicine, as is India.. and China has been doing it for thousands of years, and it is all very well documented. The United States is one of the few countries in the world where herbs are NOT regulated. But like I said, the FDA isn't the one needing to do the regulating.. they have a very horrible track record when it comes to herbal medicine.


--------------------
~Thought Creates Reality~


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