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 socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 205
Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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 mushroom farm 
#4951873 - 11/18/05 03:54 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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hello all,
went to maryland last weekend to pitch a proposal for a mushroom production facility.
It went pretty well. I was successfully able to spark their interest, however, they felt my design is a little too ambitous to start. (6,000 sq.ft.- 4000 pounds per week.) With a start up cost just shy of $400,000.
I agree with them to a certain extent. I wanted to show them what the possibilities could be, and I was able to get that point across.
So as it stands now, I have gone back to the drawing board. I am now giving a budgetary proposal to convert an existing structure that is roughly 1200 sq.ft.
I am going to see if I can squeeze 1500 pounds per week out of that. I am also going to try and keep it under $100,000.
So it didn't go as well as it could have, but it went pretty well.
cheers- Norm
p.s. And in case you need a little porn,
here's a beautiful set of nipples 
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,100
Loc: London
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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what was your staffing plan?
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buh
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 205
Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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orignally, five people including myself.
two that mix and shake. (bagging and inoculating)
they also swing loading the grow room and composting)
two that just pick and package. they also help loading and composting.
I would manage, billing, orders, delivery, etc., and farm work.
Now it will be myself and one other, and a part timer, that just delivers.
I was able to check out five different places that sold mushrooms. only one place had wilds, 40 us a pound for bolete, 25 for chant, and 20 for black trumpet that were literally rotten. I was also not very impressed with any others that I saw either. at least there were some exotics, king oyster, beech, maitake, golden oyster (in a mix with sliced cremini), and pretty much every place I went had shitakes that would have made better compost than a meal.
It is good to know that the market can support exotic species,, and also good to know there is definate room for imrovement
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,100
Loc: London
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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presumably you've seen a place such as this. all that busy activity as every day is picking day..... don't you think you're getting carried away? nobody makes that many pounds a week unless they're selling to supermarkets.
don't wanna burst your bubble, i'm really interested in this factory, just can't imagine how long it'd take to get it to regular production in those volume harvests. but that's cos i wanna see pics, and hear more!
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buh
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 Corporal Kielbasa
aka shiek
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 14,870
Loc: urmomsroom
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any thing going to be automated? I was working a farm. Mixing, making, and spawning production blocks. I made 60 to 100 every other day. It was a lot of work.
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Wanted:
Pleurotus eryngii
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Tricholoma conglobatum
Agrocybe aegerita
Flammulina velutipes
Volvariella volvacea
Sparassis crispa
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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I used to work on a mushroom farm that produced 1000 pounds per week. We delivered to around 45 restaurants and nine grocery stores, and never once caught up to demand.
compared to the larger farms, 1500 pounds per week is not that substantial. It is only 6000 bags incubating at any given time. Every day is a pick day beacause of the variations between species as far as fruiting length. As well as the variations within a species. For example a species like Pholiota Adiposa (chestnut) will not always flush on the same day, small variations in grow room and substrate can add a day or two to the fruiting cycle. And this species has a very small window of opportunity to be picked. 12 hours can mean the difference between a product that is too immmature to get a reasonable amount of weight, and an overgrown product that has a very short shelf-life, and less market appeal.
I will be growing five species, that have different incubating times and fruiting schedules. So while the amount of mushrooms being picked everday will be variable, it is safe to say that something will most likely need to be picked everyday.
After construction is complete, it will be 90 days before a consistent schedule is in place. However there will be product after thirty days.
I will deliver to restaurants, they are the highest work load, order inconsistently, and will want mushrooms you can not provide. But they will also pay the highest $ per pound, and more importantly educate the public to diverse fungi.
I will also sell to organic markets. It seems the markets in maryland are buying their mushrooms from pennsylvania. Not that far away, but a day or two in this business, is a lifetime. Mushrooms are always sold based on freshness and availabilty. I just have a gut feeling that this niche market is going to explode soon, and I want to be there to catch the wave. If it's not going to explode on it's own, I will make it. I ramble, Thanks for the response, I will continue to update if people are interested, or have questions
cheers- Norm
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socialnorm77
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Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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Sheik
yes there will be automation. When I grew mushrooms before, it was very back breaking laborius work. Our mixer would only hold 37 six pound bags, and were loaded by hand via a chute and digi scale. Not to mention all the substrate was carried by hand into a basement. We would also make 1000 bags at a time. So you had to constantly fill that small mixer. On a good day we would produce about ten bags per minute, but that was just two of us going balls out.
Ive speced some machinery that will bag at 12 bags per minute, with a mixer that will hold 600 bags. The eniter mix will take roughly 4 hours, for two guys.
The lab will also have automation, it will have an automatic inoculater. a vertical sealer , and bag shaking machine. Which can average about 10-12 bags per minute. Which is quite fast compared to what it takes when doing it by hand. The amount saved in labor far exceeds the initial cost of this equipment, (roughly 5000) for these three pieces of equipment.
Edited by socialnorm77 (11/19/05 10:48 AM)
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Corporal Kielbasa
aka shiek
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 14,870
Loc: urmomsroom
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Hey well if you would, would you send me a pm? Your knowledge will help me out ten fold! I been using a 50 gallon drum full of sawdust/bran and water. Soak it drain it and bag it one scoop at a time.
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Wanted:
Pleurotus eryngii
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Tricholoma conglobatum
Agrocybe aegerita
Flammulina velutipes
Volvariella volvacea
Sparassis crispa
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shirley knott
not my real name
Registered: 11/11/02
Posts: 9,100
Loc: London
Last seen: 3 months, 7 days
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you got me hooked, that sounds awesome
i would love to even get to visit a proper mushroom farm like you describe. have you got any pictures, or does anyone?
please give more detail. so how does the thing operate? what rooms are needed? what preparation as far as airflow, humidification, and temperature control? details and pics please 
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buh
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TODAY
Battletoad
Registered: 09/25/03
Posts: 10,218
Loc: Metropolis City, USA
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wow, that's a really cool plan you've got.
what species are you planning on growing and how much do they sell per pound market price? do prices vary east to west coast much?
as far as your investors, how did you find people w/ money who'll invest in a mushroom farm? or are you trying to get a bank loan?
i'm kind of the entrepreneur type so i respect your operation to the utmost and wish you luck. i'd definitely like to be updated on your progress too. good luck and happy farming!
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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
Edited by TODAY (11/19/05 03:32 PM)
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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 Re: mushroom farm [Re: TODAY]
#4957172 - 11/19/05 09:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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there are six main areas to focus on when designing a mushroom farm.
mixing room- Where substrate is prepared and bagged
steam box- 250 degrees f. for 24 hrs will do. My design converts steel shipping container, 8 x 8 x 20'. They can be found used for as little as 1200 dollars. small steam generators are around 2600
cooldown room- not always nescessary, but I like the idea of being able to free up the steam box for more bags, and also the cooldown room can be blasted with UV light before going into the lab, to help keep contaminates from growing. Always remember that during steaming you will never completley kill all the contams, but enough that each mushroom species has enough of a head start to grow and then defend itself.
lab- As well as the cooldown room, the lab never gets air that has not been through a HEPA system. It needs to stay clean enough that you wouldn't mind eating off the floor. Also, never go into a lab after going into the grow rooms. it can really frig things up.
incubation- generally kept around 70-72 degrees, rows and rows of shelves holding bags that are kept about one inch from each other. Each species will let you know when it is time to fruit.
grow rooms- I have designed grow rooms that are made out of a pre fabricated toungue and groove metal panel. it is basically 4" foam sanwhiched between 20 guage steel that has been coated with USDA spec paint. the size is 12'x 10'x 30'
humidty and airflow are dependent upon each species, but I very rarely use instruments other than a co2 meter. the mushrooms will tell you what they need. I know it seems silly, but they do.
the shelving also needs to be simple and removable, for ease of cleaning and picking. Also any surface in the design that mau get wet, cannot be made of wood, or anything else that will rot. Contamination will always find a way to get in, but i'm certainly not going to open the front door for it.
packaging and cool down- it is important to put mushrroms in a 35 degree f cooler immediately after being picked. This will slow or halt the growing process, and also keeps spores down to a minimum. The USDA also recommend this temp.
after reading through this, please take all info with a grain of salt, I am really only scratching the surface of the iceburg that is mushroom farming. The system is really just like a lot of the grow logs and set-ups I have seen here, just on a much larger scale.
Another thing to remember, is the importance of the flow of material through the system. for example not putting the lab next to the grow rooms and things like that.
I will start with five species, Pleurotus Erngyii, Pleurotus Columbinus, Hericium Erinaceus, Pholiota Adiposa, and Grifola Frondosa.
Wholesale one can expect to get between $4-$8 per pound. Which is pretty standard for a small set-up like this.
The east coast pays much more for wild mushrooms, than the west coast.
From my experience it seems that the given mark up mushrooms is 100 percent. Which is quite a bit, but remember that water is money in this business, and on average .02 percent of moisture is lost everyday.
I hope some of this info helps, I will have pics of the entire process during the construction and when it is up and running. Trying to find pictures of farms on the net can be pretty trying. Lots and lots of farms keep their sysstems locked up like NORAD. Mushworld has pictures of farms from different countries, and also some videos of kings growing in bottles. Even though it is fast, and easy, I would never recommend growing in bottles, especially that species. It seems the mushrooms know they are being too manipulated and will not produce as they should.
I'll keep adding to this post- norm
Edited by socialnorm77 (11/19/05 09:05 PM)
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micololo2
Stranger
Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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1200 sq. feet mean 40 X 30 feet structure. To my opinion, with all the needs for growing commercial mushrooms, it looks to small to get 1500 pounds mushrooms per week. Isn't it?
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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Re: mushroom farm [Re: micololo2]
#4959218 - 11/20/05 11:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes it is a bit small for 1500 pounds per week, but not impossible.
I forgot to mention that there is a second level, but I don't really want to use it. It could be used for an incubation area, but with 6000 bags, I'm worried about weight becoming an issue. This structure used to be a drying barn for tobacco. It was actually the last operating tobacco farm in maryland, (what I was told).
So now I'm thinking, two grow rooms that are roughly 200 square feet each. The lab can be very small, 80 square feet max. I am going to fore go the cool down room for now and put the steam box outside. With a closed entry system from the mixing area and the lab. the steamer itself is also designed to go outside. The mixing area also will take up roughly 80 square feet. I have taken out the conveyors I had in the original design, and will now load the mixer by hand instead of having a premix hopper that would have been loaded via conveyor.
Next, I will still need a walk in cooler, at 80 square feet.
So that is 640 square feet. leaving me roughly 560 square feet for incubation. Minus the walkways and access, lets call it 500 square feet. two bags will fit in a 1'x 1' area. So If I can maximize that 500 sq. feet as incubation with shelves and build them six feet high, It just barely gives enough room for 6000 bags.
Of course this is all in theory, many things will need to change of course. but I can make it work.
While I'm thinking about it, I would like to here some opinions you folks have on humidity. My experience has been with an air compressor and mist nozzles. Which can be a big pain in the ass. Has any one ever used the aqua-foggers from www.jaybird-mfg.com ?
they are relatively cheap and easy to maintain.
-norm
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JoeyShmoey
PowerStroker
Registered: 11/17/05
Posts: 348
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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I live here in maryland and would like to check your place out if you get it up and running. Let me know!!
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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absolutely, The farm will be open for public viewing and tours. I will also be looking for employees as the farm expands. Labor is cheap in that area, but I will be more interested in hiring folks that understand and repect the beauty and personality of fungi.
As part of the process I also want to be able to experiment with medicinals, and hard to cultivate species. I want to be able to offer internships to mycology students. Give them a place to stay and a lab to study in. In exchange for back breaking farm work.
I am a novice self taught mycologist, and enjoy being humbled in my knowledge. That's why I enjoy the Shroomery so much. Everyday I learn something new. Which is probably why I have spent so much time out in the woods picking every random mushroom I see and trying to identify it.
I believe that mushroom farming is a perfect blend of science and art. Which is hard to find out there today.
-norm
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micololo2
Stranger
Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 388
Loc: Québec, Canada
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A small fruting room at 120 sq.ft with 2 of 5 floors rack, 10 fte walls heigth, 1 alley, give the oportunity to install 350 of 5.5 pounds blocks of Lion's Mane. It gives 2.91 blocks per square foot structure. 2 growing rooms at 200 sq.ft.=400 sq. ft. X 2.91= 1164 blocks. With some other strains (ex: Eryngii)you might can install more blocks but I still don't think you can produce 1500 pds. mushrooms per week with this.
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socialnorm77
forager
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Re: mushroom farm [Re: micololo2]
#4960262 - 11/20/05 04:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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How about this?
The building is 24 foot wide. I can build 2 grow rooms that are 12'x 20' with 10' ceiling. give and take the thickness of the walls 4".
Each grow room can have a 4' alleyway in the center with flanking racks 4'x 20' with an area of 80 sq. feet. Times 5 shelves is 400 sq. feet. 1 block per sq. ft gives me 800 blocks per room. 1600 for both.
Thank you for your input. I will also have the ability to add on to the design as well, if another grow room or incubation area is needed.
I forsee there being issues with growing more than one species in a room at one time.
For example, blue oysters, and bears head will grow well together, but erngyii, and adiposa prefer their own space, as they are pickier during fruiting cycle. I have no experience yet with grifola so I'll have to see where it goes.
-norm
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MissRooms
Stranger
Registered: 11/16/05
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Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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THis is all new to me but I am old when it comes to business. it sound like you know what you are doing so good luck.
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mskip23
Can It All Be So Simple!
Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1,506
Loc: Philly
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Re: mushroom farm [Re: MissRooms]
#4962284 - 11/21/05 01:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im also a young entrepreneur so when can I buy some stock! at a shroomery discount..lol...You can make a lot of money in the mushroom business...Im very interested...Good Luck
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Semilanceata
No god, no boss
Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
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How do you reach the 250?F/121?C temperature inside the steam box and how do you keep that temp for 24 hours?
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Sr_Setahongo
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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There are several ways. Here is one Idea I have been thinking of
http://www.sioux.com/steam-gen.html
They are pretty cheap and cycle themselves, also have auto shut-off, and are portable. I'm pretty sure that a small one is under 3000 dollars.
The steam box will be a steel shipping crate, with a steam line installed and a vent pipe. It is basically like a big lobster cooker.
I have also been researching a little bit into the conversions for larger industrial boilers that can be found very cheap on the used market. I have been trying to figure out if I can also use this type of boiler to heat my building as well. I have also read somewhere that people have used passive steam generation to create humidity in grow rooms, but I'm not sure how it is done.
cheers norm
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Semilanceata
No god, no boss
Registered: 05/26/03
Posts: 841
Loc: República Federal Íbera
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Thanks for the answer man!
I?m gonna start a mushroom farm too but the project is not as advanced as yours. One of my problems is the sterilizer cause they?re either too expensive or too big. I?ll start growing mushrooms in pasteurized substrates first then see what solutions I can find for the sterilizer.
Anyway, I?ve read in GGMM that if wood is heated for an extended period of time it becomes unsuitable for mushroom mycelia, is this true?
Thanks again and good luck with your bussiness.
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Sr_Setahongo
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 5 years, 11 months
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Wow that is so cool! If I ever drop out of college (which will most likely never happen) I think mushroom farming would be my first endeavor! It looks and sounds so interesting, and I agree that common people need to learn more about all the different, wonderful types of edible mushrooms! I usually buy fresh oysters and shitakes from when I grocery shop, and enjoy knowing that I'm supporting small local business!
I really wish you the best of luck! I would actually consider buying some stock if you decided to sell any.
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socialnorm77
forager
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Loc: north east
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Re: mushroom farm [Re: dr0mni]
#5029044 - 12/07/05 05:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi folks,
Have been doing a lot of rework to my original design.
I was a bit misleading in the above post about the ciost of a steam generator.
The one pictured will run you about $12,500 U.S. that's including shipping. Used boilers can be baught for around 3,000.
I was also gung- how on not using FRP ( fiberglass -reinforced) panels in lab and grow room. I originally intened on using 4" galv. panels. www.aluma-shield.com They are quite expensive at five dollars per square foot deliverd. Plus the aluminum extrusions used to hold them together when building rooms are too expensive.
I'm realizing that I have to go bare bottom budget to get this idea off the ground with my investors that have not been back=peddling but treading water since i put the ball in their court.
This business has a built in Catch 22. You won't be able to sell enough to make money until you can grow them consistently. And you can't grow them consistently until you can justifably sell them. Ergg. that's why start-ups can be so difficult.
also, alot of business fail to consider the small costs that will addd up very quickly over the course of a year.
So in addition to design of a succesful facility the following considerations should be anticipated and planned for when investing capital.
salaries/ labor- one whole year yes
consumables- operation, fuel, materials, and safety
insurances- building, business, vehicles, product, and employees. workan's comp must be paid, and can ruin your business if not.
advertising- web, printing, travel,
Interest on loansTaxes on land, building, and product
construction as per design
equipment- maitenance cost to run etc.
electrical
telephone/ fax/ internet
dumpster
sewage
delivery vehicle.
And these are just some of the more obvious costs. It's not all bad news. Here is an example of a cost return summary as per my first design of a 6,000 sq. ft facility.
Cost to produce- $1.00 per block
Avg output- 1 pound (usually more but this asumes some contams)
avg. price per pound- $4-$8
Design capablities- 4,000 pounds per week
Avg. cost to produce $4,000 per week
Average return on investment
Week: $12,000- $28,000
Month: $32,000- $112,000
Year: $624,000- $1,456,000
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sublimistri
Higher Than AKite
Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 2,952
Loc: Forgotten
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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wow nice profit, but how would you get your name out to sell them?
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Tradelist
My Ethnobotanical Garden
Cup Greenhouse Tek. Make small sturdy pots (With detachable grenhouse tops) with cups.
Your human friend will have to dose atropine uninformed, I will not spread information that may harm a cat. - Wiccan_Seeker
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
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Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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In order for it to be succesfull it has to be a multi-layered marketing plan.
Restaurants will pay the most but buy the smallest amounts. However they will educate the public to diverse species.
organic produce wholesale will buy the most but for the cheapest price.
Farmers markets is a lot of labor but educates the ,buying market to possibilities.
I have received a quote of $3500 for a website that I could update every week to list specials and such.
pay for the google advertising, so whenever somenone types mushroom into the search engine. the company website would be readily accessible.
Have also recieved a quote of $500 to design a pamphlet that list species that I will grow with current medical uses, recipes , and uses and such. The FDA won't approve the nutritional aspects portion. But it's really just informative advertising technique.
free samples- this soubnds so simple but it is amazing how easily and important it is to build close relationships with you buying public.
those are a couple of ideas off the top of my head.
-norm
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mattymonkey
Feel Like aStranger...
Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 973
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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what do you mean by you have quotes? is that how much it would cost to make those things?
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"listening for the secret.. searching for the sound.."
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 205
Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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yes. for the designs, and intial design and hosting of the web-page. I have two brothers that are both artists/ web designers. These are the prices they gave me. I forgot to mention a logo design was $1500, and that's a family price. Seems expensive but it's what he does for a living, and I respect his artistic ability enough to pay him. The first impression of a company is often times their logo, and I feel it is important to convey artistically the m"mission" of the company.
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mattymonkey
Feel Like aStranger...
Registered: 11/07/04
Posts: 973
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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norm- have you seen this thread?
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4127133#Post4127133
some good info in there, thanks again 8ball..
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"listening for the secret.. searching for the sound.."
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Corporal Kielbasa
aka shiek
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 14,870
Loc: urmomsroom
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Good talking with you and thanks for the info. I just got a lead from this girl i know from the bar. She was talking to her father about me and he thinks he knows an old dairy farm that i can possibly use. Im all about the concrete floors!
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Wanted:
Pleurotus eryngii
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Tricholoma conglobatum
Agrocybe aegerita
Flammulina velutipes
Volvariella volvacea
Sparassis crispa
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socialnorm77
forager
Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 205
Loc: north east
Last seen: 21 days, 13 hours
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was that the same dairy farm we were talking about?
concrete is a must, sealed concrete is better.
the dairy farm floors may already be coated. If not, estimate about $100 per gallon. It will coat roughly 500 sq. feet.
Give them a call, if they won't let you just use it and pay utilities, perhaps they would consider a lease to own proposal.
good luck and let me know how it turns out.
cheers- norm
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Corporal Kielbasa
aka shiek
Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 14,870
Loc: urmomsroom
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This is a different one. =)
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Wanted:
Pleurotus eryngii
Pleurotus cystidiosus
Tricholoma conglobatum
Agrocybe aegerita
Flammulina velutipes
Volvariella volvacea
Sparassis crispa
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pH_
Voyager
Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 466
Loc: New England
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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excellent post!
i've been seriously thinking about starting a small mushroom farm myself. i planned on using the web as a major source of selling since the company exposure would be nice.
$1500 for a logo is quite a bit .. overpriced. in my other line of work, adult websites.. logo's go for as little as $200 by good designers. depends on what you're willing to pay. i plan on doing all of my design myself.
i like the idea of having the rooms in steal crate things. i'd need some sort of heating though for new england.. it gets damn cold here (we're actually getting 7-13" snow tomorrow). perhaps i could start small in my basement with just like 10-20 tubs.
do you got any pointers for a small farm? and if any questions pop up along the way mind if i drop you a PM? 
good luck with your biz. you seem to know exactly what your doing and your ethics are good, you'll do quite well once the ball gets rolling  i'm in my first semester of college.. maybe by then i could be one of those interns 
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gulli
Stranger
Registered: 08/18/09
Posts: 1
Loc: China
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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wow,great plan,
I am new here,and reading from start to finish,
very beneficial website for newbie like me
also planning in future to build a farm like you were planning
so what happened,did you succeed?hope you did well,update us
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tokingnome
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1,174
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 months, 16 days
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Re: mushroom farm [Re: gulli]
#10882787 - 08/18/09 03:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah did you end up getting this mushroom farm up and running?
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Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger." 
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LokelYokel
I Gro Fuud
Registered: 08/24/08
Posts: 382
Loc: Deep in the Heart
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This thread is almost 4 years old. It is likely you will not get an answer to these questions.
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ReUse! RePurpose! ReCycle! "Mom says use it again!"
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tokingnome
Stranger
Registered: 09/25/08
Posts: 1,174
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 3 months, 16 days
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Quote:
LokelYokel said:
This thread is almost 4 years old. It is likely you will not get an answer to these questions.
The person who started the thread still comes to the forums so I'm hoping he will see people are responding.
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Confucius say, "Man who go to bed with itchy butt, wake up with stinky finger."
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Triptonic
Registered: 04/23/08
Posts: 3,707
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Yes I am curious on the answer as well, good question tokingnome.
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BlueGrower
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/11
Posts: 61
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Would be nice to know if he finally built the farm and see pictures
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 39,269
Loc: USA Mountain Northwest
Last seen: 2 days, 16 hours
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 This thread has been closed.
Reason:
Necromancy.
RR
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