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 spudamore
Stranger
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 Respecting Elders 
#4729199 - 09/29/05 02:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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i here it so much at work "respect your elders and listen to them cus they have more wisdom" so on and on.
so what is wisdom?
why don't the elderly have to listen to younger generation?
all the older people at my work are still stuck in the ideals and knowledge back from decades ago. i try to tell them about new ideas or newer knowledge that they don't know or no little of and they blow it off and say that can't be right or thats not right.
my idea of wisdom is a great deal of knowledge applied to life and gain many insight, and that one can live there own insight that they have gained.
why couldn't it be respect those with great wisdom?
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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 DeathCompany
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4729211 - 09/29/05 02:47 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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dont worry they will be dead soon
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spudamore
Stranger
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LOL yeah will most likely outlast 90% of them.
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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Swami
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4729243 - 09/29/05 02:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, those with the greater life experience will have more wisdom.
Do you now know more than when you were 4 or 12 or 16?
Do you likely know more if you have never left your home town than a world traveller?
At what point do you think people start going backwards and losing wisdom?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Silversoul
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4729265 - 09/29/05 02:57 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think the ethic of respecting and revering one's elders is a relic from a time when people's way of life remained fairly constant, and things didn't change so rapidly. Back then, the wisdom one gained in their lifetime could readily be passed on and put to use by the next generation. In our complex, rapidly changing modern society, it seems that the elderly have more trouble keeping up, and the things they learn in their lifetime are often obsolete and out of step with the changing times. So rather than wise, they just seem rigid. That said, my grandfather is probably the smartest, wisest man I've ever met.
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Swami
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Silversoul]
#4729285 - 09/29/05 03:01 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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That said, my grandfather is probably the smartest, wisest man I've ever met.
Thank you.  Thought you didn't want anyone to know we were related. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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DeathCompany
Oneironaut
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4729293 - 09/29/05 03:03 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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dead people make me laugh
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spudamore
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4729365 - 09/29/05 03:18 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
At what point do you think people start going backwards and losing wisdom?
when they start to live in the past instead of upgrading there life experience, beleifs and knowledge.
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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a_h_w
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4729986 - 09/29/05 06:45 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've grown in a tradition that respects elders. I can't be impolite to an elder, it's part of my nature.
when my grandparents could no longer live on their own, they came to live with me and my mother. one of the most profound experiences I had in my life happened when my grandfather fell on the street and stayed on bed for a month. he convinced himself he wouldn't walk again, but I helped him, I put all my strength to bring him up. the first few times he had to crawl out of bed. it was a long journey but together we made it, he walked again and that meant a lot for both of us.
my grandmother is a well of wisdom. when my grandfather died my mother thought her mother was going crazy, not really realizing what had happened. because here everyone is expected to cry for days on end when someone dies. but my grandmother has an almost perfect knowledge of death. she understood the perfection and beauty of that moment. she understood my grandfather had the perfect passage he so much deserved. he was sitting alone with her in their room, and unlike the usual he asked her to turn off the lights. with not so much as a silent whisper we went away, for when the lights were turned on again, he was no longer there, only his body remained.
my grandmother was very happy for him, her tears expressed the emotion she felt for what she called a 'holy' death.
I love talking with my grandmother. does she live in the past? for sure she does. and in the future as well. maybe not so much in the present but there's nothing necessarily wrong about it. talking with her I can go back almost one century. and how different this country was one century ago! I can trace back key events in my family past that still echo in our attitudes today. I see my grandmother looking at my two year old and in her eyes I perceive the unlimited happiness she feels for that blossoming future, so full of hope and joy!
there is wisdom in elders. even if the elders themselves don't realize it.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4730042 - 09/29/05 07:48 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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You've got it quite backwards son. Wisdom is 'a great deal of Life applied to knowledge (and understanding).' Nothing beats Life experience and that comes in time (especially if the most important experiences in time have been the experiences of timelessness).
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4730378 - 09/29/05 10:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well I used to think it was a lot of hogwash.
But now that I am an elder.
I WANT RESPECT DAMNIT. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LunarEclipse
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4730406 - 09/29/05 10:40 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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my idea of wisdom is a great deal of knowledge applied to life and gain many insight, and that one can live there own insight that they have gained.
As we get older, perhaps we start to appreciate the fact that our parents and other "old" folks really did know what they were talking about and it would be a good idea to listen. 
When I was 20, my parents didn't know nearly as much as they did when I was 40, for example.
The elderly in this country are for the most part ignored by the youth (and often vice versa). This isn't a new situation, but the problem seems to be getting larger.
It's a social problem and a sign of the times as depression era thinking isn't compatible with today's "new world" thinking. (Well, perhaps it should be, but we spend and consume with typical reckless abandon anyway. And to think fiscal conservatism used to mean something...)
The other reality is that in the past (and present in China etc.) the elders were the most respected and loved members of the family. Generations lived together in one house. Contrast that with today's geographically mobile career/soccer oriented nuclear families.
Maybe if you did listen to and show more respect to your elders, they wouldn't reject your ideas and thoughts as much. It's a two way street. Still, at ages 70+ computers and modern technology will be daunting to many. When programming the VCR is a task, you know the PC will be a real job.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4730981 - 09/29/05 12:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think the problem is that experience does not necessarily equal wisdom, but elders want to be treated as though it does.
If we learn from our experiences in life, we grow wiser with age. If not, we just grow older. Getting old just means you have not died: not really a big accomplishment.
Anyone who wants my respect for their wisdom needs to earn it, not demand it.
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Redstorm
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4730989 - 09/29/05 12:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I respect those who respect me, so as long as an older adult treats me well, I will treat them with respect.
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Swami
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731059 - 09/29/05 12:51 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Getting old just means you have not died: not really a big accomplishment.
Oh yeah? Hey, I made it through Viet Nam, the Big Quake, drug overdoses, car crashes, gangs, heart attacks, cancer, and getting hit by a racquetball in the ***** and that is no big thing?
Survival is a big thing, because without first accomplishing that, you cannot do anything else.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Icelander
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731069 - 09/29/05 12:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Survival is overrated. I agree with Veritas. As usual, you missed the point.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731080 - 09/29/05 12:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Survival does not make you special, as it is something that everyone now alive has done.
If you learn from the experiences you have lived through, then you stand out from the crowd of teeming humanity.
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fireworks_god
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731093 - 09/29/05 12:58 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
If you learn from the experiences you have lived through, then you stand out from the crowd of teeming humanity.
Thus further ensuring your own survival.
Standing out of the crowd of teeming humanity and being unique is not of any real meaning. The nature of one's experience itself is the point and where the true meaning lies, I think.
 
Peace. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
  
 
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qhr0me
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731099 - 09/29/05 12:59 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
I think the problem is that experience does not necessarily equal wisdom, but elders want to be treated as though it does.
this one's right on the money. age brings experience, but experience isn't guaranteed to bring wisdom at all.
Quote:
Veritas said:
Anyone who wants my respect for their wisdom needs to earn it, not demand it.
i agree here too, but i'll add this: unless you have wisdom, you only delude yourself that you can recognize it in others and if you think you're wise, you are deluded already. so's more practical to respect experience, just coz it's so much easier to recognize.
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Swami
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Icelander]
#4731105 - 09/29/05 01:00 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I did?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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I think we're discussing wisdom, not the inherent meaning of life.
Do you agree that learning and growing is more likely to lead to wisdom, while aging (i.e. surviving) merely leads to becoming old?
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731185 - 09/29/05 01:15 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Do you agree that a live person is more likely to learn new stuff than a dead one?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731219 - 09/29/05 01:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, DUH! But a live person is not necessarily more wise than another live person simply because they have continued to be alive for a longer period.
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Icelander
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731225 - 09/29/05 01:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
I did?
It's ok. I'm getting used to it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,657
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Icelander]
#4731266 - 09/29/05 01:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's ok. I'm getting used to it.
It's called co-dependency. 
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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qhr0me
o = oo
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Posts: 203
Loc: sun diego, ca
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Icelander]
#4731322 - 09/29/05 01:37 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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man, every time i try to use the gremlin page, it fucks up my computer, the pop-up extends and takes over my entire desktop, flashing like crazy, only way i can do anything is to ALT-F4 and shut it back down, otherwise can't even toggle between apps.
weird shit, but i'm running win2k on this box, methinks it's time to go to xp or something, can't be deprived of all this gremlin fun shit for much longer.
*sheepish for derailing thread*
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731334 - 09/29/05 01:41 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes, DUH! But a live person is not necessarily more wise than another live person simply because they have continued to be alive for a longer period.
That is generally true throughout the rest of the animal kingdom. Are humans that much different?
Stu Unger was a brilliant mind, being undefeatable in gin rummy and went on to win a record-breaking THREE World Series of Poker Championships and killed himself from cocaine abuse in his forties.
There is a seventy year old guy who has been playing the same tournament for decades and never won a bracelet. I wonder who is wiser...
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731382 - 09/29/05 01:48 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Is he wiser because he is older? If he was wise enough at 40 to avoid abusing cocaine, then he was wiser than Stu at the same age.
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Silversoul
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731392 - 09/29/05 01:50 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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One 20-year-old can be wiser than another 60-year-old, but how much you wanna bet that 20-year-old will be wiser when he's 60 than he was when he was 20? It's a simple observation that people do tend to get wiser as they age.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731417 - 09/29/05 01:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Thank God your brilliant mind hasn't been wasted winning World Series of Poker bracelets Swami.
People will remember Stu Unger for a long time in spite of his shortcomings. Sure his drug addiction was stupid and self destructive. What drug addiction isn't?
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
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I was gonna play this year, but decided to hang out here and take abuse instead. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,657
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731469 - 09/29/05 02:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I was gonna play this year, but decided to hang out here and take abuse instead.
Bad call. 
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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But I am probably $10,000 richer. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Silversoul]
#4731480 - 09/29/05 02:04 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well, I have spent quite a bit of time with "elders," as I was involved in volunteer work during my childhood, teens & 20's.
Some had the emotional maturity, wisdom, and demeanor of adolescents (not senility, just as far as they had gotten in their development), and some had maturity levels commensurate with their advanced age.
I would say that the 20 year old will be wiser at 60 if he has avoided becoming ossified in his thinking.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Veritas]
#4731501 - 09/29/05 02:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I try to oss twice daily to prevent such decay.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731510 - 09/29/05 02:11 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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But I am probably $10,000 richer.
By not paying the $ 10,000 entry fee?
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Don't submit to dogma.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731517 - 09/29/05 02:12 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami, you are such an oss.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Zakkly.
A World Class Player may have a 2 to 1 edge over an amateur, but on average it is not worth his time and money to play the main event.
Most go to play for either their ego, or to make the real money in the huge $$$ sidegames. Lots of fish attract lots of sharks.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Swami]
#4731543 - 09/29/05 02:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Judging from the pathetic level of play at the final hold'em table this year, your point is well taken.
Just like all those fish in the tournaments who get well taken by the sharks swimming about on the sidelines.
The main attraction is just a distraction.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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I understand nerves and pressure (for others; not for me ), but some of the plays I see in some of the finals are horrific. I am not talking about a bluff gone wrong, but some plays are just mind-bogglingly stupid, like flopping a full-house and going all-in to drive everyone out and make no money. Or betting too little so that someone with a straight draw can crack your AA. And then they can whine about their 'bad luck'.
Oops! Did we unintentionally derail this thread? Sorry folks! Back to wisdom.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Icelander
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Silversoul]
#4731595 - 09/29/05 02:36 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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My question is; how much wiser? Was it worth the exta years?
I like your avatar better now.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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spudamore
Stranger
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 1,460
Loc: Australia
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Maybe if you did listen to and show more respect to your elders, they wouldn't reject your ideas and thoughts as much. It's a two way street.
who says i don't respect everybody?
dammit gotta go to work
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
Edited by spudamore (09/29/05 04:09 PM)
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XUL
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4732745 - 09/29/05 06:50 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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dood....
just respect the elders
anyway one day youll be one, and it will be good getting all that respect!
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Icelander
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: XUL]
#4732784 - 09/29/05 07:05 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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dood...
you don't need to.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4733310 - 09/29/05 09:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Every living human deserves a certain amount of respect, but beyond that respect is earned. I used to think that all old people were wise. My grandfather was a very knowledeable man, and my father is the most competant man I know. This is not always the norm, though. The first time that I worked for an old man who was stupid it blew my mind that an elderly person could be such an idiot. Age and experience bring wisdom to some...to others it just reinforces their ignorance. It all depends on the person. There are certainly young people who are wise beyond their years as much as there are elderly people who are stupid.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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spudamore
Stranger
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said:
You've got it quite backwards son. Wisdom is 'a great deal of Life applied to knowledge (and understanding).' Nothing beats Life experience and that comes in time (especially if the most important experiences in time have been the experiences of timelessness).
i think they go hand in hand, because without knowledge you wouldn't know how to live/survive. so what came first experience or knowing?
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
Edited by spudamore (09/29/05 11:54 PM)
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spudamore
Stranger
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Every living human deserves a certain amount of respect, but beyond that respect is earned. I used to think that all old people were wise. My grandfather was a very knowledeable man, and my father is the most competant man I know. This is not always the norm, though. The first time that I worked for an old man who was stupid it blew my mind that an elderly person could be such an idiot. Age and experience bring wisdom to some...to others it just reinforces their ignorance. It all depends on the person. There are certainly young people who are wise beyond their years as much as there are elderly people who are stupid.
thanks Hue for that post, i love this quote.
Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Every living human deserves a certain amount of respect, but beyond that respect is earned.
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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4739201 - 10/01/05 12:43 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wisdom is of a different order than Knowledge, unless the Knowledge is 'Gnosis' not 'Episteme' - based on inner experience, not sense data and reason.
Tibetan Buddhism equates Wisdom with Compassion. It is Transcendental in nature. In the West, Wisdom is Sophia - GOD's 'Divine Consort' (or Asherah in the Hebrew). Eastern Orthodox Christianity comes quite close to equating Wisdom with the Holy Spirit, and when they wax theological, Wisdom interpenetrates the Holy Trinity while not quite becoming a 'Fourth Person.'
Being filled with Wisdom, or being Wise is a highly spiritual human condition. It is usually considerded a concommitant to age, but age itself doesn't bring Wisdom unless one's life has been dedicated to its pursuit. Wisdom is not 'cunning' which is more of the level of the instinct and connected to survival. Wisdom is connected to the Third Eye, the symbolism of a monarch's crown with forehead jewel - survival is the Root Center.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Huehuecoyotl
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"age itself doesn't bring Wisdom unless one's life has been dedicated to its pursuit."
There are various areas of life in which wisdom can be gained. One can gain wisdom through the tempering effect of experience on knowledge. One is not required to be a Jesus or a Buddha to be wise in some area. Actively pursuing wisdom is not a requirement to having it.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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MarkostheGnostic
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Perhaps I should have said that one needs to be open to the acquisition of Wisdom. It is realized through life experience, yet becoming familiar with Biblical Proverbs or Zen aphorisms familiarizes one intellectually to the nature of Wisdom, else how can one know in what Wisdom consists? It's application in life needs to be constant for one to realize Wisdom, to make a real personality based on it.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
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Loc: underbelly
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Luke
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: spudamore]
#4740535 - 10/01/05 12:10 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
spudamore said:
i here it so much at work "respect your elders and listen to them cus they have more wisdom" so on and on.
so what is wisdom?
why don't the elderly have to listen to younger generation?
all the older people at my work are still stuck in the ideals and knowledge back from decades ago. i try to tell them about new ideas or newer knowledge that they don't know or no little of and they blow it off and say that can't be right or thats not right.
my idea of wisdom is a great deal of knowledge applied to life and gain many insight, and that one can live there own insight that they have gained.
why couldn't it be respect those with great wisdom?
What about the reincarnation aspect? If someone sees a first reincarnation when you are an old reincarnation. What would you say?
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Huehuecoyotl
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I think that you are misreading me. My point was that much wisdom is completely agnostic in it's nature. Wisdom regarding religion is obtained by applying experience to religious teachings, but wisdom takes many forms. My father, for instance, is a master at using hand tools. He can explain the details of efficient use of tools. This is not as cut and dry as one would suspect. A master in this field can create with almost supernatural efficiency and detail. His knowledge of tools and his experience with them caused him to understand this subject. Just as years of total immersion in computer technology have allowed me to transcend the ability of many peers in this field who have been doing it much longer (with less intensity) with lesser results. At my work several have likened my ability to a supernatural art. In reality it is knowledge tempered by massive experience. This is a simple type of wisdom, but wisdom nevertheless. I aspire to possess mystical wisdom and I will continue to strive, though I always come up short.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,822
Loc: underbelly
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You're a great guy Hue, I really enjoy some of your posts. 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,178
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Icelander]
#4740581 - 10/01/05 12:42 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I appreciate that...but you should realize that when you complement me I only get worse.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,822
Loc: underbelly
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That's why I do it.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,178
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Respecting Elders [Re: Icelander]
#4740618 - 10/01/05 12:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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I get it...wear down the competition by inflating their ego. That way my level of enlightenment decreases....an insidious plan.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,822
Loc: underbelly
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Well I can't beat you head on.
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
Edited by Icelander (10/01/05 01:09 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/10/99
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I am not convinced that Wisdom differs, it is always sacred in my book. There is a story I once read about Ken Kesey giving a talk about things (he was downhome, and things always had a spiritual nuance to them). Anyway, someone in the audience raised the issue of grace. Now, we use this word to mean a special instance or superabundance of Divine intervention, and we use this word as you seem to emphasize Wisdom, in a secular way, like the grace of a prima ballerina. But as the question of grace came up, Kesey was sipping some coffee, and he indicated to his friend Ken Babbs who was in the front row that he wanted some cream for the coffee. Ken then tossed the open or hinge lidded (I don't know which) cream pitcher to Kesey, who caught it without spilling any of it, and poured some into his coffee, while continuing to speak.
Now, in one smooth motion, two people and an object in motion were unified in a movement that one could see as amazing (grace!). This demonstration doesn't smack of orange glow, and clouds of glory, but these kind of 'illuminations' are just artistic devices (I believe) that deceive us into believing that grace (or Wisdom) is a rare thing in life. Kesey and Babbs might be seen more clearly in a Taoistic model of grace, of synchronicity, of perfection of movement (like your Dad's skills as a craftsman). I am coming to believe that Divine categories like Wisdom and grace are freely operative and most people fail to see them for what they are. I do not identify myself as a secular man, yet I am not 'religious' in any ritual way. I see life in terms of the Sacred and the Profane, and draw more and more to the former view. Though often tempted, I am not a 'Philistine.'
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 10,178
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I agree here. I think that all things have a spiritual aspect. Just because one is agnostic does not mean that they cannot tap into the divine. As I see the divine as being independent of one's belief. Excellent post!
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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a_h_w
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TO OLD AGE.
I SEE in you the estuary that enlarges and spreads itself grandly as
it pours in the great sea.
walt whitman, leaves of grass
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