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 luvdemshrooms
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Registered: 11/29/01
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 New Orleans And Welfare 
#4618728 - 09/04/05 07:11 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hopefully this country will be smart enough to tear down N.O., and maybe someday we'll be smart enough to give up on the travesty known as welfare.
An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the Welfare State
by Robert Tracinski
Sep 02, 2005
by Robert Tracinski
It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are confronting a natural disaster.
If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors, nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about rape, murder, and looting.
But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has gotten the story wrong.
The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane Katrina merely exposed it to public view.
The man-made disaster is the welfare state.
For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what we expect from a Third World country.
When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).
So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?
To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a description from a Washington Times story:
"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....
"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.
" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary and I expect they will.' "
The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid, listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.
What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?
Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?
My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)
What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects, and vice versa.
There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city, despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.
No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.
What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way of life for them.
The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.
Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Young_but_cool
Stranger
Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1,726
Loc: Old Europe
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Wow, that article really pissed me off. "The intellectual activist"? BWHAHAHAHA
I actually hope this whole ordeal leads to some kind of shift in American politics towards a more progressive mindset and that the poor will stop acting (and voting) against their own interests. The American handling of poverty (IE prison and marginalization) is a disgrace to the western developed world.
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looner2
ABBA fan
Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
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I can't wait to see the backlash regarding racial issues after this. This is a huge blemish on the blacks and they know it, which is why they are already screaming racism. It could get very dirty in the future.
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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,716
Loc: The Hand
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Hopefully this country will be smart enough to tear down N.O., and maybe someday we'll be smart enough to give up on the travesty known as welfare.
What do you suggest they do, condemn the entire city? 
The smart thing to have done in NO years ago would have been to build concrete dams to protect the city instead of the earthen levees that will fail given a bad hurricane/flood. Let's remember just how much WORSE this hurricane would have been to NO if it had hit on the west side of the city instead of further east.
As for the welfare state, if you think they are pissed off after a flood, imagine their anger and fury if you take away their welfare checks and food stamps! The other reality is where are these millions of ex-welfare cases going to live after that? No landlord will rent to a HUD type tenant without assurance of payment. Then what?
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Don't submit to dogma.
Edited by LunarEclipse (09/04/05 10:30 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Quote:
What do you suggest they do, condemn the entire city?
Yes. Pouring money into a city that sits below sea level would be incredibly stupid.
Quote:
The smart thing to have done in NO years ago would have been to build concrete dams to protect the city instead of the earthen levees that will fail given a bad hurricane/flood.
A little reading will show you that at least one of the breaks occured in a recently reinforced (by concrete) section. Fat lot of good it did.
Quote:
As for the welfare state, if you think they are pissed off after a flood, imagine their anger and fury if you take away their welfare checks and food stamps!
So what? The fact that some will be pissed if they lose their handouts is not sufficient reason to keep giving them.
Quote:
The other reality is where are these millions of ex-welfare cases going to live after that?
I don't care where they live. It is neither my concern or responsibility. If you're that worried about them why don't you take in a family or two.
Quote:
No landlord will rent to a HUD type tenant without assurance of payment.
The smart ones stay away from these type of tenants anyway.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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 Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
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Why are you against welfare? People need to eat, you know.
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,588
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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http://www.alternet.org/story/24966/
yes..the welfare state is to blame...the corporate welfare state to be more precise.. ie if a tiny fraction of the handouts that went to haliburton had instead been spent on reinforcing the levees...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,716
Loc: The Hand
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Sure, condemn the entire city. The government can send all the property and business owners a letter telling them how stupid they were to build below sea level, and as such no compensation will be paid for their condemned property.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
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Tearing down an entire city is not feasable. I imagine it will be rebuilt, however its levee system will be redesigned to handle the mother of all hurricanes probably
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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bukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Registered: 05/28/05
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Unagipie]
#4618960 - 09/04/05 11:45 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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It sounds like something Ayn Rand would write.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: bukkake]
#4618990 - 09/04/05 11:59 AM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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hahaha.. that's our luvdem for us
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Unagipie]
#4619068 - 09/04/05 12:40 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Unagipie said:
Why are you against welfare? People need to eat, you know.
Let them work, or let them starve.
Family, friends, charity.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Annapurna1]
#4619074 - 09/04/05 12:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Forgetting for a moment your obsession with Haliburton, why should the federal gov have spent even 1 dollar on the levees?
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
Sure, condemn the entire city. The government can send all the property and business owners a letter telling them how stupid they were to build below sea level, and as such no compensation will be paid for their condemned property.
Exactly. Glad to see you've got it.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Unagipie]
#4619080 - 09/04/05 12:44 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Unagipie said:
Tearing down an entire city is not feasable. I imagine it will be rebuilt, however its levee system will be redesigned to handle the mother of all hurricanes probably
I know.... let's put a dome over the city.
There will most likely always be a storm big enough to defeat even the best plans of men.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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bukkake
LEFT WING NUT
Registered: 05/28/05
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Forgetting for a moment your obsession with Haliburton, why should the federal gov have spent even 1 dollar on the levees?
Why should they have taken that one dollar and put it into the war in Iraq? Foreign policy is more important than domestic policy ?
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: bukkake]
#4619090 - 09/04/05 12:47 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
bukkake said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Forgetting for a moment your obsession with Haliburton, why should the federal gov have spent even 1 dollar on the levees?
Why should they have taken that one dollar and put it into the war in Iraq? Foreign policy is more important than domestic policy ?
Foreign policy (and the military) are the business of the feds.
Levees are not.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
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Quote:
Hopefully this country will be smart enough to tear down N.O., and maybe someday we'll be smart enough to give up on the travesty known as welfare.
Fuck that, I want my Mardi Gras!!
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
   
Trip Report
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bukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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That is in your opinion. If we are going to contribute billions and billions of dollars to causes, our priorities should be at home than in foreign lands.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4619129 - 09/04/05 01:06 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Fuck that, I want my Mardi Gras!!
Well, there is that.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: bukkake]
#4619132 - 09/04/05 01:07 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Actually, it's not my opinion.... unless you can show me in the Constitution where building levees in New Orleans is the job of the federal government.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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roby000
me
Registered: 02/28/05
Posts: 9,186
Loc: nazi poland
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i think alot of people are trying to blame the goverment because we trust it and hope it will protect us, and the parasitic welfare leeches depend on the goverment, so when uncle sam says "oh shit god is stronger than us" people get pissed... if this shit happened 200 years ago it would be "god is fuckin up" instead of what we hear from such influental people as kanye west which is "bush is fuckin up"
this article is spot on. if they want to bring race into the the deal then i propose ethnic cleansing.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Quote:
LunarEclipse said:
The smart thing to have done in NO years ago would have been to build concrete dams to protect the city instead of the earthen levees that will fail given a bad hurricane/flood.
No, the smart thing to do would be to not build a city under sea-level. Unfortunately, this shit hole will be rebuilt until it's knocked down again.
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Unagipie said:
Why are you against welfare? People need to eat, you know.
Let them work, or let them starve.
Family, friends, charity.
Nah. I think people should pay taxes to help one another. It's morally correct and it's not greedy. We need to all share and work together for a better tomorrow
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Unagipie]
#4619173 - 09/04/05 01:23 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Morally correct is not always Constitutionally correct.
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4619189 - 09/04/05 01:28 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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The point is that it is neither morally correct nor constitutionally correct. Double whammy.
Phred
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Phred]
#4619194 - 09/04/05 01:30 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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What is the point?
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Unagipie
Pilgrim -DBK鰻
Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 6,300
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4619197 - 09/04/05 01:31 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe your stupid constitution
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Don't fight it. Just let the illuminados take over your mind. You be at bliss soon.
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bukkake
LEFT WING NUT
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4619207 - 09/04/05 01:32 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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amendment - The act of changing for the better; improvement.
I don't feel 10,000 people should have died in New Orleans because the US government felt supporting foreign invasions was more important than sparing lives of Americans in a natural disaster, which was predicted as being one of the top three catastrophes this country would face if a hurricane came barreling in there. And it did. Pro-war, anti-war, doesn't matter here. I don't know what planet any American is from if they feel funding to NO should have been gutted in favor of Iraq.
On the subject of welfare, it's in need of a reform. As it stands now, people use welfare as more of a crutch and income, not for short-term supplemental aid. It's very easily abusable.
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Actually, it's not my opinion.... unless you can show me in the Constitution where building levees in New Orleans is the job of the federal government.
I agree with the article in principle. Building a city under sea level right next to the Gulf is incredibly stupid and as such I have no sympathy for them nor do I feel it's my responsibility to pay for their mistakes. However to answer your question:
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: cb9fl]
#4619235 - 09/04/05 01:42 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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On a 1-10 scale (1 being "didn't mess up", 5 being "kind of messed up", and 10 being "fucked up badly") here's how I view the Katrina incident and the governmental response:
Government of New Orleans - 10
Government of the state of Louisiana - 10
U.S. federal government - 6.5
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JesusChrist
Son Of God
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I can't believe they just released the criminals on the rest of the population. No wonder we have looting, raping and killing going on.
I like this article. Welfare has failed its goals, and the war on poverty has done nothing but create more poverty. Housing projects all over the country have been disasters.
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Tastes just like chicken
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: JesusChrist]
#4619326 - 09/04/05 02:17 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Did they really release everyone in the jail? I agree all of the misdemeanants should have been released, and also all of the non-violent drug offenders, felony or no felony.
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: cb9fl]
#4619330 - 09/04/05 02:18 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Actually, it's not my opinion.... unless you can show me in the Constitution where building levees in New Orleans is the job of the federal government.
I agree with the article in principle. Building a city under sea level right next to the Gulf is incredibly stupid and as such I have no sympathy for them nor do I feel it's my responsibility to pay for their mistakes. However to answer your question:
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Ah yes, that. It is not in the general welfare of the US for the feds to waste money on levees. Try reading the writings of the framers of the constitution before trying that again.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Why can't the fucking state of louisiana afford to build the damn levee themselves anyway? Shouldn't be beyond a state's budget to build a relatively small structure.
The U.S. is not rebuilding the levee right now anyway, they are dropping bags of sand on it. They are providing EMERGENCY repair work, and should continue.
After emergency repairs are made, there will be plenty of time to argue about who should pay for the actual rebuilding.
People are suffering, and now is not the time for politicial debate.
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4619384 - 09/04/05 02:38 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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It is ALWAYS the time for political debate.
And there should be NO repairs to the levees.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
It is ALWAYS the time for political debate.
And there should be NO repairs to the levees.
No repairs, hahahaha
There is a lot of unlooted loot there, you know.. What about all the floor safes and whatnot?
Not only that, you people amaze me. I'm sure you weren't boycotting Mardi Gras through the years because you might one day have to pay for the rebuilding of New Orleans... No one EVER seemed to have a problem partying there in the only fucking U.S. city that I am aware of that allows you to drink beers on city streets..
My hat comes off to New Orleans, thank you for all of the memories for which I am most appreciative, and may you be rebuilt asap, with luvdemshrooms' tax money. 
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4619498 - 09/04/05 04:43 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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No, I never boycotted NO. I also never asked for federal dollars to be spent so people can party below sea level.
The Feds should not spend a dollar on any such project.
Fixing the levees now would be throwing good money after bad. Or are you suggesting that:
1. It's somehow the problem of all to support the foolishness of a few?
2. It's possible to out-levee Mother Nature?
Old Timer - We've been wiped out by flood waters 15 times.
Feds - Don't worry Old Timer, we'll give you money to rebuild.
Old Timer - Hot damn Martha, we can get flooded out again! Yee Ha!
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Unagipie said:
Why are you against welfare? People need to eat, you know.
Let them work, or let them starve.
The quintessence of the individualistic American philosophy.
Europeans always seem to feel obligated to help out all the less well-off (with other people's tax dollars, not just their own) and are the first to volunteer their whole populations for more welfare, more public health care, more socialism. Luckily, some Americans are more enlightened.
Not our government though; our government is almost as bad as the European government in terms of taxes.
As for New Orleans, it should be only be rebuilt with the tax dollars of Louisianians. I don't think Connecticut or California should have to pay for a disaster in Louisiana.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Ravus]
#4619547 - 09/04/05 04:57 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why did you leave out the rest of what I said?
Family, friends, charity.
I don't mind helping. It's just not the Feds job to do so.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
Posts: 3,104
Loc: florida
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Isn't the US one of the most charitable countries in terms of business donations?
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Because I was speaking only about the government and taxes, not families and charities.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: cb9fl]
#4619656 - 09/04/05 05:37 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Do you mean donations from businesses to others?
I believe you'll find the US is a charitable as they come but I don't have the breakdown for business VS personal donations.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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Vex
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/05
Posts: 1,284
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
cb9fl said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Actually, it's not my opinion.... unless you can show me in the Constitution where building levees in New Orleans is the job of the federal government.
I agree with the article in principle. Building a city under sea level right next to the Gulf is incredibly stupid and as such I have no sympathy for them nor do I feel it's my responsibility to pay for their mistakes. However to answer your question:
Section. 8.
Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Ah yes, that. It is not in the general welfare of the US for the feds to waste money on levees. Try reading the writings of the framers of the constitution before trying that again.
actually, considering the amount of refineries in and around new orleans, it kind of is in the general welfare of the US.
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,716
Loc: The Hand
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Foreign policy (and the military) are the business of the feds.
Levees are not.
Would you consider the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to be part of the Feds? The following is a reprint from their website (note part about flood reduction structures aka levees etc):
Infrastructure
Much of the United States Army Corps of Engineers infrastructure mission is related to its Water Resources mission. The Corps builds and maintains a variety of water resource related infrastructure including locks and dams, flood reduction structures and reservoirs, hydroelectric facilities and other projects.
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Don't submit to dogma.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 24,902
Loc: Lost In Space
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None of which I feel is the business of the Feds.
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“In politics, few talents are as richly rewarded as the ability to convince parasites that they are victims. Welfare states on both sides of the Atlantic have discovered that largesse to losers does not reduce their hostility to society, but only increases it. Far from producing gratitude, generosity is seen as an admission of guilt, and the reparations as inadequate compensation for injustices – leading to worsening behavior by the recipients.
Thomas Sowell
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LunarEclipse
Mr. Dogma Free
Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 10,716
Loc: The Hand
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Quote:
None of which I feel is the business of the Feds.
How you "feel" about it doesn't change the reality that the NO levee maintenance and repair funding is from Congress (federal) and the work is done by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (federal).
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Don't submit to dogma.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,588
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Vex]
#4619859 - 09/04/05 06:47 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
actually, considering the amount of refineries in and around new orleans, it kind of is in the general welfare of the US.
which will all reap windfalls from the insurance payoff..at the taxpayers expense..let alone all the ppl that died...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Annapurna1]
#4619874 - 09/04/05 06:54 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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The businesses and homeowners will also reap the insurance payoff, at the taxpayer's expense.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Quote:
I also never asked for federal dollars to be spent so people can party below sea level.
Maybe you should have demanded it be spent instead then, given the current situation.
Quote:
1. It's somehow the problem of all to support the foolishness of a few?
This country has known, or should have known that this scenario which is upon us was a distinct possibility. Therefore an effort should have been made long ago to either fortify the levee system to hurclean strength(which will undoubtedly be done now), or dismantle a major U.S. city..
"haha hehe hoho we goofed! We never should have built a major U.S. city there! Our bad!"
Yeah right. So then they should have already built a hurricane proof levee!
Quote:
2. It's possible to out-levee Mother Nature?
Don't say it can't be done, it just requires 10 foot thick concrete and we're all done!! You just wanna make a big huge fart ring-out in the proverbial elevator we as Americans are all riding on...
--------------------
Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
Edited by Smallworlds (09/04/05 07:25 PM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4619961 - 09/04/05 07:21 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yeah right. So then they should have already built a hurricane proof levee!
By "they" I hope you mean either NO, or Louisiana.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4619967 - 09/04/05 07:24 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Of course! But the U.S. government should have insisted on them doin it, since they were underwriting all disasters via FEMA, they should have made sure, and instead Bush cut "flood control money" and didn't give a flying fuck either, and so nobody gave a fuck, and now everybody pays. Wake up America, stand up! Tear yourselves away from your televisions, check out your communities, what the fuck are they going to do to you next????
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4619984 - 09/04/05 07:30 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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As much as many of your hate Bush and laud Clinton, they are both to blame for the cuts.
Quote:
WASHINGTON ? While the Bush administration is sure to get most of the heat for cuts in proposed expenditures to maintain and upgrade New Orleans flood control system, the Clinton administration repeatedly cut congressional allocations for the projects and the recommendations on spending by the Army Corps of Engineers.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46132
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4619995 - 09/04/05 07:32 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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I never claimed Clinton was jesus christ....
I do know that with Bush we have a monkey at the controls though...
And clinton is history, Bush is fucking right now man... wake up, wake up America, pour some cold water on your heads, please!!!
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,162
Loc: [life]now[/life]
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Smallworlds]
#4620007 - 09/04/05 07:38 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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Clinton is no longer our president, but that doesn't make him history. Much of the cuts and legislation carried by him are still affecting us today (see: lack of a sturdy levee).
I pretty much agree with nothing Bush has done, but blaming him for things he has no control over blinds us from the real issues and those who should be accountable for them.
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Smallworlds
Trippin' fool -Merry Prankster
Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 4,207
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: New Orleans And Welfare [Re: Redstorm]
#4620016 - 09/04/05 07:41 PM (7 years, 8 months ago) |
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The real issue is that America could easily become plunged into all kinds of more problems in short order. It's getting crazy, I've never seen anything like it.
Buckle your fucking seat belts because I have a feeling we're in for one wild fucking ride...
Regardless who did it...
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Through the excercise of patience, one may learn humility..
Smoke plenty of green, and eat fungus!!!!
Trip Report
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