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 Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
 
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 9,868
Loc: Calgary, Canada
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 Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea?  [Re: kratomboy]
#4210905 - 05/23/05 06:25 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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He's one of the best people I know, and we are fortunate to have him.
Honestly being an Admin is 90% grief, 10% joy.. I mean there are months when you love it more than you hate it (the job), but we all do it because we care a lot about this place.
So it can be frustrating at times when people are so harsh towards us, and thats because we are human. People choose harsh terminology like nazi's, 'you dont care', 'you havent thought this out', etc..
I mean its hurtfull because you spend sooooo much time on something you love to only be treated this way only too often by frustrated users.
The thing is this will always be the case, sad as it is to say, but I've been doing this for a long time now and this is the way it has always been.
We are the bosses so to speak and we will face the brunt of negetivity from users, even from good people who just want to vent.
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Jim
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,888
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
#4210968 - 05/23/05 06:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I think this promotion idea is not the best for this community. I also resent the response from the Administration
Hoodies should be enough.
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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!
afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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Jim
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,888
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Thor]
#4210973 - 05/23/05 06:47 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Honestly being an Admin is 90% grief, 10% joy.. I mean there are months when you love it more than you hate it (the job), but we all do it because we care a lot about this place.
As soon as a user becomes a mod or admin the fun is over.
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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!
afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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 Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 15,819
Loc: Dark Side of the Windmill 
Last seen: 5 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Jim]
#4210997 - 05/23/05 06:56 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Bullshit.
Banning is fun. Hella' fun!
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Jim
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,888
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Cervantes]
#4211005 - 05/23/05 06:58 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Yeah, and all the shit it stirs afterwards...
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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!
afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
#4211015 - 05/23/05 07:00 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's not like we're going to be promoting this site just anywhere. It's going to be at raves, festivals, concerts...the type of places where you'll find plenty of fellow psychonauts. The type who could benefit from the knowledge this place has to offer. This site is already big beyond what I ever imagined it could be, and if you don't think that cops or the DEA already monitor the site, you're fooling yourself. If there are repurcussions, the admins will be the first to feel them, and I trust them in their decision.
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Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 33,536
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
Last seen: 1 hour, 35 minutes
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Vampire999]
#4211035 - 05/23/05 07:03 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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I'm one of the mods who raised some very explicit questions and criticism regarding this whole project. I was pumpin' adrenalin when I was presented with the plans.
I have found my peace though, and let me tell you why.
The Admins own the website. Now the Shroomery website is not some free webspace you get with an email account: it is hard thinking, hard work and hard ware. We moderators spend quite some efforts and deal with some aggrevation at times but the Administrators take ultimate responsibility and have the best interest of the Shroomery in mind.
People should stop whining that there are "powers that be" who are doing the politics and policing of the Shroomery. The Shroomery would not exist without hierarchy and top-down decisionmaking.
It's amazing how the responsibilities of modship turn you from a kind of anarchist into a politician/cop.
RESPECT TEH AUTHORITAH 
At first I had quite strong mixed feelings but I found my peace.
The administrators have made up their minds and decided this is the the way it will be. Now let me reproduce Vampire999's post from this thread because I believe it's not appreciated to the degree it deserves:
Quote:
Of course money plays a roll.. the stuff people are wanting and what this place really needs to move to the next level.
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1. decentralization of information
2. mirrors
3. bigger better hardware
4. redundant hardware
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None of this happens by itself. The main idea of this website has always been to grow and spread the information in our mission statement. Reaching out and growing means risks.
Shroomerites: we have arrived at a new era in Shroomery evolution. Exciting things that were pipe dreams before now seem to get within our reach. The Shroomery will break out of it's cocoon and unfold the wings of a beautiful psychedelic butterfly. International website mirrors. Spreading the Information across the world. The Shroomery mission statement is to stop the spread of dangerous misinformation and basically providing correct information has become an important addition.
Its time to think beyond our former limitations. The flowerpot is filled with roots: time to transfer it to a bigger pot, and take cuttings and spread them to friends. We are at the dawn of highly exciting possibilities, possibilities saving lives and greatly enhancing the Shroomery experience, as well as securing the Shroomery for the future. "Shroomery Promotion" is but the tip of the iceberg.
It is very exciting and quite frankly very scary to turn the page and write a new chapter in the annals of the Shroomery. The admins are upping the ante, and with it comes alas a greater risk.
The administrators and moderators of all persuasions are planning to make this as safe and successful as possible. Perhaps the idea stops at the drawing board because risks are too high. Perhaps it will fizzle. Maybe, in the worst case I have thoroughly looked at, we will go out with a bang and perhaps a next-generation Shroomery will rise. But quite possibly the Shroomery might erupt into the most beautiful thing it could ever be, and our adolescent young Shroomery will become a fully adult Shroomery with a great future ahead.
It's very scary and it's very exciting. I have decided to give this administrative decision my full support and try to lay down weekly hours so that together with the members, mods and admins we'll try make the Shroomery into the best thing it could ever be.
The Shroomery can be far more than it is now. And I don't mean membercount. I feel that going with this new development will give the Shroomery the future it deserves.
I know I sound quite excited, that's because I am. I think most of you can see the benefits of international mirroring.
Trust Vampire999 on this:
Decentralization of information = key
Mirror sites = key
Major hardware = key
For these background issues a donkeyload of very real money is needed, and that would be one reason for membership expansion. But the goal is a better, completer and, yes, larger Shroomery where the boards are but a part, but the community is more than ever at the heart of the site.
 Long live the Shroomery
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@cro
new name
Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 1,224
Loc: The PNW
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Thor]
#4211038 - 05/23/05 07:04 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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I don't want anyone to feel like they're getting ganged up on, there's no personal matters at hand here. I think there is a certain amount of controversy/discussion/bitching you should expect when you decide to impliment something of this nature without any discussion (among members) first. To expect anything else is, well, just a little foolish. But the controversy we raise, I think, there is something to be said for. It shows how much we care for the community. The emotion we show is only a reflection of the emotion we have for this site. No reason to get bent over it, it's just a matter of perception.
Quote:
Thor said:
John Allen writes books on the subject, goes to conferences, openly spreads the word on safely identifying mushrooms. This does good for the whole community as it shows we want people to be safe and smart out there. He should not only do this, but spread the word even more if he can. Imagine if people like him felt it was best to hide his passion for this hobby and not share his knowledge with the world.
Of course what he does is a good thing and he will never stop, no matter what happens, he will continue this message as long as he lives. And that is OK, that's great. I've been to his apartment, I can tell you he lives by himself, he is only accountable for himself and his own actions. There is no one else who can be brought down by what he says and what he does.
This is not the case with the Shroomery. There are, as you said, thousands of users who depend on you. Whether you want to be accountable to them or not, they depend on you and the admins.
I know it is not your job to keep them safe, that you are not their provider of security, but I would hope as, what is probably the biggest influencer in the OMC, you would at least try to not bring unneeded risk to the members. I'm sure you do but I fail to see how this can not be thought of as a huge risk. You say we don't fly under the radar now, that we are already a huge site but this doesn't address the FACT that the people who are here, come seeking the information. Putting ourselves in the forefront of discussions for the public to judge is a completely different subject altogether.
Public policies aren't made until there is a public concern.
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I've spent countless years here as well as the other admins doing the dirty work of running a large drug based website. In fact I've had the distinct displeasure of dealing with the media and documentary film makers after the sad death of our friend Ripper (Brandon). The amount of heat our website was under was unreal
Yes, and the site was permanently changed because of this. I would just be saddened to see the site having to change AGAIN because this time we subjected ourselves to the critique of the public.
Quote:
in fact we all care deeply about the repurcussions of our actions and decisions. We don't take things lightly nor carelessly.
We know this, and this is the only reason we bother posting, we know you will listen and take what we have into consideration. Maybe we're beating a dead horse and this has been discussed into the ground but we don't know what has been said and all these are valid points, so we need to know they have been expressed and thought about.
Peace - @cro
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Psilygirl
cyan goddess
Registered: 08/28/03
Posts: 4,418
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Thor]
#4211091 - 05/23/05 07:15 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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First of all, I'd just like to point out that my "zieg hail" comment was taken way out of context in later posts. If you reread the original post I made and the one I was responding to, you'll see this. I was responding to his attitude, and I've NEVER before referred to the mods/admins this way...
now, with that out of the way  I'd just like to say AGAIN that no one's ganging up on the admins and I think everyone appreciates their hard work. I just get concerned with some of the goals of the site. We already stop the spreading of misinformation by those who seek it. By adding publicity, what is the goal? to take on the drug war single handedly? I guess I just dont see how the benefits outweight the risks. So we get more newbs who stop by and make one post "is this myth true?" without searching, get their answer, and leave, w/o ever contributing again. I see that happening in the future, in fact it's already happening, and this expansion has decreased the quality of the community, IMHO. I don't know any of the posters any more, many are one time visitors to get their quick answer, often posting in other peoples threads with a totally unrelated question. If that's the direction you are headed for... that's fine. I just don't see how we're not already doing our job to those who already seek it.
Anyways, thanks for listening, and no one is intending to get hostile.
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"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing.' Between the two, my life flows."
Puget Sound Mycological Society
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@cro
new name
Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 1,224
Loc: The PNW
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Silversoul]
#4211118 - 05/23/05 07:21 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
It's not like we're going to be promoting this site just anywhere. It's going to be at raves, festivals, concerts...the type of places where you'll find plenty of fellow psychonauts. The type who could benefit from the knowledge this place has to offer. This site is already big beyond what I ever imagined it could be, and if you don't think that cops or the DEA already monitor the site, you're fooling yourself. If there are repurcussions, the admins will be the first to feel them, and I trust them in their decision.
Did you read the thread?
2) Press releases, bringing our message to the media. We want to do this in a positive light, so we are looking for people that have been "saved" by the information on this site.
I think this falls a little outside of what you posted. And this is the only thing that worries me.
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 9,868
Loc: Calgary, Canada
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: @cro]
#4211165 - 05/23/05 07:33 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't want anyone to feel like they're getting ganged up on, there's no personal matters at hand here. I think there is a certain amount of controversy/discussion/bitching you should expect when you decide to impliment something of this nature without any discussion (among members) first.
Hehe the bitching/contraversy will happen with or without prior debate with the community. Like we have been saying all decisions big/small will have their detractors.
Quote:
It shows how much we care for the community. The emotion we show is only a reflection of the emotion we have for this site. No reason to get bent over it, it's just a matter of perception.
I couldnt agree more, but I'm also a proponent of debating without need for personalizing things or getting mean spirited. Passion is no excuse for bad behavior  See my thread "lessons in the art of complaints" in this forum.
Quote:
Of course what he does is a good thing and he will never stop, no matter what happens, he will continue this message as long as he lives. And that is OK, that's great. I've been to his apartment, I can tell you he lives by himself, he is only accountable for himself and his own actions. There is no one else who can be brought down by what he says and what he does.
He brings a hobby into the public eye, wouldnt the argument be made by some people that the more he writes books the more likely the government will create new laws against mushroom hunting
Quote:
I know it is not your job to keep them safe, that you are not their provider of security, but I would hope as, what is probably the biggest influencer in the OMC, you would at least try to not bring unneeded risk to the members.
Actually we are responsible for much of the security of our members while they use our boards. We do many things that secure this site from harm and protect the users of the site to the best of our ability.
Quote:
I'm sure you do but I fail to see how this can not be thought of as a huge risk. You say we don't fly under the radar now, that we are already a huge site but this doesn't address the FACT that the people who are here, come seeking the information. Putting ourselves in the forefront of discussions for the public to judge is a completely different subject altogether.
Public policies aren't made until there is a public concern.
I don't see this as a huge risk, spreading flyers with safety and dispelling myths in mind is a good thing. We are not going out to places that arent receptive to such a thing, that would be stupid.
Quote:
Yes, and the site was permanently changed because of this. I would just be saddened to see the site having to change AGAIN because this time we subjected ourselves to the critique of the public.
Hmm outside of the emotional impact of his death, the site didnt change drastically, in fact we made small changes but otherwise the site continued to operate normally.
After reading your other reply it seems you are only really concerned with the media aspect of this, like I mentioned in an earlier reply no decision has been made that we will do any media releases.
In fact we are only agreed on having a street team at events where our info cards could be spread out to people who can benefit from them.
Everything else is still up for debate, in fact the media is something I personally am weary of, and would find hard to accept us openly going to them to promote anything from the website.
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delta9
Active Ingredient
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Thor]
#4211259 - 05/23/05 07:59 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thor said:
In fact I've had the distinct displeasure of dealing with the media and documentary film makers after the sad death of our friend Ripper (Brandon). The amount of heat our website was under was unreal, we had reporters in our chat rooms, people emailing me from CNN, BBC, etc.. Even had a long AIM chat with a reporter from the NY Daily news, which actually ended up being a reporter who helped the Shroomery by keeping our name out of her report which was a report that was picked up on the wires and copied, which was great since nobody even mentioned our website. To this day I can't believe how well we handled this media blitz on our home.
The thing that worries me is how do you intend to stop this from happening again? They're not *always* going to withold the name of the website. It's going to get dirtier, I fear. This is not to say I am not unappreciative of all the hours and work you have put forth... If you hadn't done that, I'd never have spent the time to when I did to be here, 'cause it wouldn't have been here. I am in your (the administration's) debt.
Quote:
I mean its hurtfull because you spend sooooo much time on something you love to only be treated this way only too often by frustrated users.
The thing is this will always be the case, sad as it is to say, but I've been doing this for a long time now and this is the way it has always been.
What you need is public ampitheatre type debates. A venue where interested parties, such as myself, can view YOUR debates and feelings and thoughts on important policy decisions such as this, so it is fully shown how it was thought about, what was presented, and so on and so forth - then no one can say you didn't think it out thouroughly and critically without being pointed out that it was so. They don't have to be live debates, either. You could do them in a locked secret room on IRC, in a locked secret forum here, and then export to a user read-only forum. It's an idea. I'd thouroughly enjoy it (along with a sister-linked user-comments type thing in WA&F to a specific debate).
Quote:
Paradigm said:
This site is already big beyond what I ever imagined it could be, and if you don't think that cops or the DEA already monitor the site, you're fooling yourself.
I, for one, aknowledge and know this. I am not saying we are low key to law enforcement - law enforcement *probably* learns helpful things from US on occasion and may be one reason why they let us lie for now. The dangerous group that does not currently monitor this site that I would like to see continue to not monitor this site is the General Mass Media.
Wiccan_Seeker, good post as always... Your persuasive cutting analogy with the butterfly metaphor has got me thinking it might be worth the (large) risk.
@cro I think is right on about the emotion we're showing... Don't take it so hard, admins, we care too, that's why we hurt you! 
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delta9
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delta9
Active Ingredient
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Thor]
#4211284 - 05/23/05 08:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thor said:
Everything else is still up for debate, in fact the media is something I personally am weary of, and would find hard to accept us openly going to them to promote anything from the website.
Please note I was writing my previous post whilst you posted this
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delta9
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ZippoZ
Knomadic
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 12,629
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: delta9]
#4211537 - 05/23/05 09:21 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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im sorry to have been absent from this thread for so long. and let me state my piece, or atleast the first instalment of it.
okay, as i see it there are a few issues that are being brought up here.
1) people are afraid of the site becomming to high profile.
2) some people have a problem with the financial aspect of this website
3) some members/mods are upset as they have not had a voice over the creation of the promotions.
well as it has been explanes to me, and i agree after looking at the numbers, this site is not low profile by any means.
Also the world runs on money, server space, hosting, the license for the bbs and lots of other things that break and send the admins running into the night to get replacment parts. it takes money to keep this site running.
And we dont run this site, the admins do in the end its their say.
there is also alot of concern over the legal aspect of this site. i also share a concern about this. i do not think that there is any legal precident over somthing like the shroomery, and that not many similar sites are run in this country.
however im sure that there is a lawyer out there that specialises in these sort of issues, and im sure that we will find him in time.
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PEACE
 zippoz
"in times of widespread chaos and cofusion, it has ben the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m anagment, too much programming and controll, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"
"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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wrestler_az
PsiLLy BiLLy
Registered: 08/11/02
Posts: 10,659
Loc: day dreams of a mad man
Last seen: 1 hour, 56 minutes
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
#4211541 - 05/23/05 09:22 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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i think its a good idea.
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how's your WOW?
Edited by yageman (04/20/06 4:20 PM)
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delta9
Active Ingredient
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: ZippoZ]
#4211607 - 05/23/05 09:39 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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I do not mean to offend, but if it comes to speaking in written form to the Media, I do not think zippoz is the person for the job, unless you assign him an editor, lest I fear we come off as drug addled imbeciles. I'm not an English major or anything, but I do know a few things here or there - anyone feel free to corect me back, I love to learn
To whit:
Quote:
zippoz said:
(capitalization needed) im sorry to have been (akward phrase) absent from this thread for so long. (unnecessary conjunction, capitalization needed) and let me state my piece, or (two words together and I think needs a comma after) atleast the first instalment of it.
And so on and so forth. Head of Promotions is a lot like (at the least related) Public Relations. He is the person the public will look at as our head representative. At the least he could start using the spellcheck more often.
And now some substance:
Quote:
zippoz said:
okay, as i see it there are a few issues that are being brought up here.
1) people are afraid of the site becomming to (sic) high profile.
well as it has been explanes (sic[, obvious typographical error as the 's' is next to the 'd']) to me, and i agree after looking at the numbers, this site is not low profile by any means.
And yet, I maintain by some means this site is indeed not high profile.
I can ask 50 people on the street, 50 people on IRC, or 50 people on Yahoo! Chat - whatever place you want me to take from a random sampling of people, rather than a venue such as a rave (which I agree is the RIGHT place to do it, but raves are hardly high profile) and only a few will know what The Shroomery is and less know what it does and really stands for. Asking those same people about something high-profile like AOL or Tom Cruise or what have you would yield better results.
We are in the counter culture, underground - by definition, low profile.
Surely the police and other agencies know about us and most likely even watch us, but I say again, thus far the major media outlets are NOT. I want to keep it that way. Low profile.
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delta9
Edited by delta9 (05/23/05 09:49 PM)
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Jim
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 20,888
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: delta9]
#4211628 - 05/23/05 09:45 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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blah....
don't the google ads bring in enough revenue to keep the site up?
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Use the Fucking Reply To Feature You Lazy Pieces of Shit!
afoaf said:
Jim, if you were in my city, I would let you fuck my wife.
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Ravus
Not an EggshellWalker
Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: kratomboy]
#4211753 - 05/23/05 10:25 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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I fully support the promotion of this site. It can't just remain static with the current members it has plus a few noobs a month. Just because we'll have voices at large events and such to promote the Shroomery, it doesn't mean it's going to explode or get a sudden influx of mainstream attention either. Chances are the people who would come visit the site are the same type of people that are already here, except there'd be quite a bit more of them if all works out.
And if people bring money to the site, that's not a bad thing either. With money, the Shroomery could fund starting an online merchandise store leading to more money, which could be used partially to make the site better. Some will, of course, go to the admins, but they deserve something for all the time and effort they've put into this site.
I don't think the Shroomery should remain in the mostly static phase it's in. We get a few new posters, occassionally see the forums rearranged, but how much has changed? How much of a difference does this community make? For better or for worse, I believe it needs to expand.
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So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.
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ZippoZ
Knomadic
Registered: 06/17/03
Posts: 12,629
Loc: Pongyang, North Korea
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Ravus]
#4211757 - 05/23/05 10:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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i would like to add to those that are concerned about new users, i think that we have 33,300 some registered users and are growing at around 200 new ones per month..... and thats the registered members of the bbs...
i doubt that we will get that many new newbs that it would cause an issue
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PEACE
zippoz
"in times of widespread chaos and cofusion, it has ben the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m anagment, too much programming and controll, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"
"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."
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delta9
Active Ingredient
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 5,390
Loc: California
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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Re: Is "promotion" really such a good idea? [Re: Jim]
#4211758 - 05/23/05 10:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's not about keeping the site up, it's about expanding it further. That's why there needs to be more money coming in.
Anyway, here, this is exactly what I am talking about, in a news item posted by Anno just today:
Generation Rx
Quote:
The explosion in pharmaceuticals has been magnified by the Internet. Not only are there more psychotropic drugs to choose from, it's easier than ever to learn what to take, how much to take and what effects to anticipate. Luke scoured sites like erowid.org--"documenting the complex relationship between humans and psychoactives"--for information and "trip reports" on everything from peyote to Percocet. From there, teens are one click away from an illegal online pharmacy, a cyber medicine cabinet offering quick, discreet delivery.
This isn't the most positive presentation of erowid, I would say.
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delta9
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