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Offlinestvip
Strange stranger
Registered: 03/21/05
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Loc: Israel
Last seen: 7 years, 6 months
Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: wonderlandherbs]
    #4618730 - 09/04/05 07:13 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kratom is viable by seed for only a few weeks




I wonder whether this is accurate. I have seen this mentioned many times, but never with a reference. Several sources, seeming to originate from a German importer, are now offering Mitragyna speciosa seeds, and they seem knowledgeable enough to aver that they are not a different species from the genus, such as Mitragyna parviflora. Either it's a widespread intentional scam (not misidentification), or a legitimate offer. They claim germination rates aren't very high, but are acceptable.


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Offlinewonderlandherbs
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Registered: 09/01/05
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Loc: NC, USA
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: stvip]
    #4621896 - 09/05/05 10:26 AM (8 years, 10 months ago)

I, too, have been wondering about the legitimacy of the newly-available seeds. I have been working fairly close with a reliable source who has since procured some of the same seeds in question. This individual was, too, informed that the seeds must be quite fresh to maintain the best viability. I was informed that I would be receiving seeds for Mitragyna speciosa from this same source, and that he has been successful at germinating a few of those planted already. I don't really like to speculate whether there remains truth of rumor at this point. I personally have never seen a Kratom seed; I do not force my personal collection to flower, timers are key at this point in the year, and nor have I ever seen a plant to be grown from seed, though many a claim I have seen posted, of course without pictures.

Just as there remains so very much controversy between what is better: White-veined, or red-veined, "strains". While all the plants I have ever produced through cloning have had white veins, I am receiving a great amount of mail in regards to potency differences. Many are saying "they have heard [this] & [that], [pros] & [cons]..." for both claimed "strains". I'm wondering if this is all just a bunch of hype, for I, too, have yet to see a specimen of Mitragyna speciosa that consistently produces leaves of the same structure that always have red veins. I say consistently for I have been experimenting with the clones I produce from time to time. I noticed awhile back that after some initial cuts have began to produce roots, the entire cut has a blushed shade of 'red'. Usually the red is more noticeable on the crown, with the very newest leaves having an almost pink appearance. As the cutting matures and develops the roots to support itself, this reddish hue fades, however, the leaves that were once 'blushed', though they 'green' up within a very short period, their veins continue to remain red.

Kratom, while a tropical evergreen, does defoliate itself. Leaves become older as the plant's height increases, so it would be more rare than not to have a significantly older specimen that has kept all it's original leaves. Usually within a week or so of being able to survive alone in soil, the new cutting produces its first set of leaves which are neither pink, red, or any color other than vivid glorious green, and all veins thereafter are white.

I know that many green plants may present reddish tones/ hues from a nitrogen deficiency. I'm wondering if this is what is happening to individuals who have Kratom specimens. The plant really enjoys a good level of nutrition, and this has to be supplied either organically (compost, manure, 'organic teas', fish emulsions) or chemically (Good ol' Miracle-Gro?, 10-10-10, Schultz?, etc.) If the same ones out there promoting the red-veined claimed "strain" are not regularly fertilizing their specimens, it seems only logical that they may indeed be growing Kratom that produces 'red veins' simply because of lower level of nitrogen, which thus expresses itself in the plant's physical presentation.

I just think it's difficult to determine the legitimacy of many claims associated with any entheogen until you actually can posses a specimen or its seed and test for yourself. I am anxious to receive these newly available seeds, but it many be several weeks before the plants are mature enough to test. I personally do not even offer a plant as having entheogenic qualities until it, or it's constituents, have at least passed through my capillaries and expressed their 'effects'. Even the most dangerous specimens, i.e. <i>Atropa belladonna</i> are not exempt to the personal test, all of course with adequate supervision/ emergency contact. And a gentle reminder to the reader:

Please never experiment casually with members of the Nightshade family. They are not an easy 'trip' or a quick 'high'. These plants can, and have, proved fatal. Time and self-education on as many resources you can find shall prove most beneficial, and likely keep the enthusiastically curious from an unfortunate mishap.


--------------------
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wonderlandherbs Proprietor
www.wonderlandherbs.com


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Offlinestvip
Strange stranger
Registered: 03/21/05
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Loc: Israel
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: wonderlandherbs]
    #4659537 - 09/14/05 01:46 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

nor have I ever seen a plant to be grown from seed




Are M. speciosa plantations in Bali, Indonesia and Thailand propagated by seeds or cloning?

Unfortunately, due to my location, it seems I will have to rely on seeds for obtaining a live plant. I have recently ordered 10, planted a few days ago. Results are anxiously awaited - however:

Quote:

it many be several weeks before the plants are mature enough to test.




While a false positive is highly unlikely, a false negative may very well occur if only several weeks are allowed to pass. Many alkaloid bearing perennials require a year, sometimes more, for appreciable levels to be present. Plants are generally considered mature once they have flowered.

I am not at all familiar with the vein colour debate. However, I find the hypothesis of nitrogen deficiency as the causative factor for red veins unlikely, as such an acute state would severely stunt the entire plant (the red pigmentation of beta-carotenes becomes visible once chlorophyl is depleted, which is a state of crisis), and one would surmise - especially the production of alkaloids. However, a survey of usage practices in Thailand reveals no preference to either type.

As for the Solanaceae - our Bella Donna is a femme fatale. I would never expose myself to anticholinergics. Intuitively, I'd say reduction in cholinergic transmission is a reduction of our humanity. Scopolamine is used to create models of dementia syndromes in animals. In large doses it produces permanent brain lesions with the accompanying behavioural/cognitive deficits. Not fun, but neither useful. Though it is interesting that Datura sp were used by various Native Americans, often in combination with other psychoactive substances (perhaps the combination in Chimora is reminiscient of the contemporary use of Dramamine to combat nausea).


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Offlinepod3
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- [Re: stvip]
    #4674481 - 09/17/05 05:22 PM (8 years, 10 months ago)

-


Edited by pod3 (10/26/06 12:59 PM)


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Offlinesydeq
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Registered: 01/14/06
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: pod3]
    #5323442 - 02/21/06 12:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

is the kratum leaves bad for cats?


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: pod3]
    #5325426 - 02/21/06 09:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

pod3 said:
I wonder if anyone knows if this will grow outside in southern California, where it usually doesn't freeze?

Thanks.




Kratom does not do well in low humidity, nor does it do well in temperatures at or below the 50's F. Without optimal conditions it will drop leaves until more favorable conditions return.


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: sydeq]
    #5325461 - 02/21/06 09:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sydeq said:
is the kratum leaves bad for cats?




My cat munched on a few leaves and nothing happened. I'm not saying that you should start feeding kratom to cats tho.


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Offlinerawtoxic
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: Frappy]
    #5328857 - 02/22/06 08:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Frapppy how low of humidity will Kratom tolerate?

Do you think leaf misting could help in areas of low humidity?


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OfflineFrappy
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: rawtoxic]
    #5329174 - 02/22/06 09:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't recorded exact humidity levels that lead to problems. I would have to estimate that humidity levels under 70% would cause defoliation, however higher humidity levels are optimal. Kratom thrives in its native rainforrest climate. 90% or higher would be great.

I would like to experiment with growing kratom inside a martha designed for mushroom production. The high humidity levels needed for mushrooms should compliment the conditions necessary for growing kratom, however additional light will most likely be needed.

Leaf misting will help in areas of low humidity, however it is advisable to mist multiple times throughout the day since misting is merely a temporary solution for low humidity levels.


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Offlinedevilsluc
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: Frappy]
    #5738073 - 06/11/06 03:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

i got a kratom plant in the mail about a week ago it looks perky but the tips of the leaves are browning do you know what might be causing it ?


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OfflineGrim7
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: Frappy]
    #14765259 - 07/14/11 12:20 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

awesome info man. Ive been trying to find a decent source of info for growing kratom for ages and have found lots of contradicting information... you summed up everything i needed to know thanks for your help :grin:


--------------------
If it weren't for the threat of death, we wouldn't live at all..

-have B+ and Cambodian Prints for trade-


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OfflinetheMallacht
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: Grim7]
    #14766221 - 07/14/11 04:53 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

:facepalm: Why has there been so much of this lately?

Dude, 5 year old thread... Fact is most of the members that participated in this thread haven't even been active members for a long time.

Look under 'Frappy' the Original Poster's name "Last seen: 4 years, 8 months"

Please don't ignore the warning when it says "Warning, you are about to bump a 4 year old thread, only proceed if you have relevant information to add" - or something like that.

Read the rules


--------------------
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." - Thomas Jefferson

---Mallacht Talks Insects and Insecticides in Indoor Grow Environments --- Mallacht Talks Cloning ---
---Aerobic Worm Tea For Dummies (Compost Tea) --- The Ethnobotanical Garden


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: theMallacht]
    #15375418 - 11/15/11 08:27 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Probably because it is a thread with great information and it deserves to be reviewed by new members


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InvisibleIeponumos
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #15376052 - 11/15/11 09:59 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

KillerPicklez said:
Probably because it is a thread with great information and it deserves to be reviewed by new members




That's what the "Search our Forums" hyperlink is for.

Though you may not agree with them, the rules are there for a reason.

And why bump a four month old post if you, yourself, are not going to add any additional content? :shrug:


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InvisibleKillerPicklez
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: Ieponumos]
    #15376201 - 11/15/11 10:17 PM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I dont need a lecture on how to use the forums, I have been here for going on 7 years.

I bumped the thread in hopes that someone had information they could share with me, as this is a topic that I am interested in.


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: KillerPicklez]
    #15377426 - 11/16/11 03:06 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Check my journal. There's a guide on growing kratom indoors that you might enjoy. 

And now that you bring this up, I actually do have something to add to the vein color debate.  I've seen vendors identifying types of kratom in terms of their vein color.  For example, the bumblebee is often said to have extremely red veins.  But the truth is that vein color changes, as wonderlandherbs originally noticed.  I have seen this thread many times, but I never noticed that part. I have discussed this quite a bit before with different people.  Where WH suspected it was about nutrient deficiency, I believe it is actually based on lighting.  I had cuttings given to me that were grown under HPS with red veins. They were being cared for very well and were in good soil, so nutrient deficiency is highly unlikely.  I made cuttings that I sent off to a friend.  We were both experimenting with two types of lighting, fluorescent lights and the reveal 100 full spectrum bulbs.  We both had a good number of different cuttings going of different strains.  In all cases, in two separate locations, we noticed that all the red veins eventually became white.  The only real common factor was that we were using less light. And it does seem to make sense that light would have an effect on pigmentation.

The only other factor that seems to be involved is that seed-grown-plants, in my experience, tend to have very red veins. So I think plant age may also have some correlation to pigmentation. It would also make sense that others such as the bumblebee might have originally been characterized as having very red veins. Bumblebee was originally a seed-grown strain that was probably very red when it was first grown. If the grower was not aware of the kratom's tendency for pigment change, he may very well have been struck by what seemed to be the strain's unusual characteristic.  And therefore, that might be how the bumblebee got a reputation for red veins.  (Even though they can turn white) Now don't jump to thinking it is right to say that red veins mean the plant is young, and older plants are white-veined.  It's just an observation I have noticed.  I'd really need to study seeds with a variety of different genetics to see how this plays out. 

I've been meaning to bring this discussion up for a while, so I guess it worked out that you bumped and old thread this time KP.  But I'm not advocating breaking the rules :wink:


--------------------
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Offlinevelcroshaman
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #15378188 - 11/16/11 10:04 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

That's interesting about the lighting having an effect on the vein color. I've noticed this phenomenon with other plants as well. That's not the only thing that has an effect on the color though. While nutrient deficiency itself might or might not have an effect, the availability of certain pigments in the soil can affect the vein color.

Working with an unrelated plant, I've been able to change the leaf and calyx color. The uptake by the plant of carotenoids caused changes to both, from a golden color to a yellowish-orange color as the chlorophyll broke down near the end of the vegetative part of the plants' life cycle.

I don't currently have any Kratom, so I can't experiment with this, but maybe it's something for someone to look into.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Current Grows:mushroom2:
:1up: Mimosa hostilis

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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: velcroshaman]
    #15382162 - 11/17/11 02:22 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

I believe, and i may be wrong, that the red pigmentation is a little like roses, in new growth.  Most kratom have red veins, some totally red leaves in new growth.  IN fact other species of Mitragyna do as well.  I have noticed on my trees that with age they eventually loose the red.  but not always.  A single plant can easily produce super red veins and green veins and almost white veins, certainly not a varietal characteristic.

but for people selling the herb it may still be useful as there dos seem to be some difference in the effects.  Also it is known in thailand that the older leaves are better and the new growth is pretty weak.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: kadakuda]
    #15382463 - 11/17/11 05:08 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, for leaf it makes sense. That's why you tend to find both colors for each location.  But I kinda thought more people should be aware that it's not a strain characteristic.


--------------------
www.worldseedsupply.org
HELPING THE WORLD GROW!
www.kratomcollection.com

CULTIVATION INFO
Here



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Offlinekadakuda
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Re: Mitragyna speciosa; Kratom Plant Care Instructions [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #15382807 - 11/17/11 08:43 AM (2 years, 8 months ago)

ya for sure, good looking out.  I don't find many kratom vendors online really know much about the actual plant.  they just resell it.


--------------------
The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.


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