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 MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 22,982
Loc: In the jungle
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 Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you?   1
#4081227 - 04/21/05 02:52 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I seem to be constantly finding meaning in every little stinking thing that happens to me. I don't even look for it...it finds me.
Going to the grocery store suddenly transforms itself into a magnificent, life-changing event because of the 'meaning' I saw in somebody's hat there. If I'm reading a book, words will poke out at me and I'll take meaning from them too.
It's everywhere. Things that I do, things that I don't do, things people say or don't say...there is some underlying meaning behind it all and whether I am conscious of it or not I am constantly trying to interpret it.
Usually the "meaning" has something to do with the grandiouse set of delusions I have in my mind. Well, I don't think that they are necessarily delusions, but I'm sure that most people would think they are. I am willing to admit they might be, but at the same time I don't really believe it.
Anyway, I recognize the danger in finding meaning in everything. Yet at the same time I have to admit that it makes life pretty entertaining.
You?
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 JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4081450 - 04/21/05 03:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hiya Ellemish... I want to respond to this, because I DO seek out meaning in everything, but I'm not sure how to word what I want to say. I don't believe that anything has intrinsic meaning, but I do believe that the subjective meaning of what we experience is important and relevant to our development.
I think that finding meaning in everything is a means of subconscious expression... it's like your subconscious hinting to you what would be the best way to proceed forward in the current situation.
Of course, sometimes we misinterpret these signals... and sometimes we find 'signals' that are purely illusory... and this is where the dangerousness comes in.
But, I find that combining this ability with a self-honest, logical, conscious analysis takes most of the danger out of the equation.
And that leads me to the key... atleast for me. "The key" for me, is to balance intuition and logic. They are not two opposing sides as they are so often mistaken for on this messageboard... to me, intuition and logic fit hand in hand... they work together.
Guess that's aboot it. 
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Psychoactive1984 
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4081526 - 04/21/05 04:06 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't find meaning in the meaningless.... however I do derive meaning from different sources, seen as meaningless to others. so... don't know where that leads me  .
Meaning is where you find it.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4081562 - 04/21/05 04:26 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Enjoy it while it lasts.
We sometimes are VERY aware of our surroundings. I love these t9imes... but life works in circles... it won't last forever... but you'll get back into the zone again eventually.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4081642 - 04/21/05 04:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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The over-use of psychedelics created connections for me in unconnected phenomena back in the 70's. I'd be in someone's room for an hour with the TV on and music playing, not really thinking about it, but assuming that the music was coming from the TV as well when 'in reality' the TV volume was off and the stereo was on!
I've been at a huge Grateful Dead show under a high LSD dose and amphetamine combination, and experience myself as a Christian amidst Philistines - godless pagans - alone in a spiritual test. Complete paranoia, delusions of grandeur.
On the other hand, I have long chosen to believe in meaning. Synchronicities helped engender this belief, and the metaphor with which I do psychotherapy is an alchemical metaphor - the distillation of meaning (Gold) from the otherwise meaningless (Leaden) suffering of the human condition. Victor Frankl's 'Logotherapy' that focuses on the 'search for meaning' is a 5th chakra motivation. It arises from deep Compassion and leads into Union with Life.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Sauton - Know Thyself
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
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 Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4081794 - 04/21/05 05:32 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes!
"Hold everything, and it holds you!"
-Unknown ;P
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Disclaimer!?
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mikeyboy
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Gomp]
#4082016 - 04/21/05 06:22 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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i read this and it reminded of of some research of schizophrenia i read upon. I've experienced quite close to me this condition and what your describing is what said person was experiencing yet to a lesser degree, for example interpreting a registration number as to have a hidden meaning etc
If this wasnt a type of reply you were after i apologise but thaught id share my view
Regards
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LSD: Defrag for the brain
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Droz
Love of Life
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: mikeyboy]
#4082239 - 04/21/05 07:20 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm more on the lines of creating meaning in everything, from the size of the building i enter, to being in my small room. When creating meaning I only enhance my experience, makes me feel good and keeps me moving.
Peace,
Droz
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Evolution of Time.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4082469 - 04/21/05 08:33 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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What MarkostheGnostic said can be true, but I do this even after months and months of not using psychedelics. I call it personal interaction with the spirit.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4082582 - 04/21/05 08:57 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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The meaning we impart onto happenings is subjective and usually only means something to ourselves. Ever attempt to share the profound meaning you derived from something only to have the other say, "yeah so?" 
Funny how that works.
Lately for me , its been more like relating patterns and seeing the overlays. Like how I was at Bush Gardens today. I was on the bumper cars watching everyone spin in circles going round and round bumping into each other and laughing. Then I thought to myself that's what S&P is like some times.
The best was when it stopped, every went "AWWWWWWWWWWWWW"  The group I was on with was just having so much fun like we have here. I'm glad this ride of S&P keeps going!
Back to the imparting or deriving meaning from life, you can be in a room with 5 others and the lights can go out. One thinks it means spirits are messing with them, one thinks it means they are about to be burglarized, one thinks it means there must be an electrical storm, one thinks it means the power company must be having trouble and one thinks it means their spouse may have spaced paying the electric bill.
I think different people see different meaning from the same event due to associations which relate to patterns being overlayed.
Just another perspective on all this, doesn't mean it's how it is.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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I dont mean this to be negative or assinine at all, but like mikeyboy said, schitzophrenics constantly search for and find some grandiose meaning in everything and become engrossed in it to the point it consumes them and their life entirely. Everything can have a million personal interpretations and if scrutinized long enough the arrangement of sesame seeds on my bread can have meaning or some bizarre coincidence. IMO, it is just you trying to justify a potential or past action to yourself, or yourself helping yourself make a decision based on these "uncanny" coincidences.
Things just are. They IS. Everything is connected because it is your universe and you have created it.EXAMPLE: ever learned a new word which you were completely unaware of its existence before, but once you learn it and understand it, you hear and see it "popping" up on everything? Until then, that word did not exist in your universe, so therefor you subconsciously (i hate to use that word) ignored it every time it occured.
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Hahzist
Surfing theWaves of Chaos
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#4082737 - 04/21/05 09:40 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Your lucky, I wish I was like that. I find meaning in certain things, but I wish I found meaning in everything. It's what makes experiences and stuff, I love it.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Hahzist]
#4082806 - 04/21/05 10:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I always thought experiencing something was what made experiences and stuff....
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Hahzist
Surfing theWaves of Chaos
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#4082809 - 04/21/05 10:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well yah, maybe I used the wrong words there. I mean finding meaning in experiences is what makes experiences memorable and something to cherish.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Hahzist]
#4082863 - 04/21/05 10:29 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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guess it is whatever way you choose to perceive it. I see things as just being, having an isness. One of my most memorable experiences is watching the life fall out of my grandmother, I didnt derive any meaning from it, she just died (physically), it was something that just WAS/IS. I think people strive for meanings they want to help reassure themselves of their worth or point. Kind of like someone stranded in a row boat, in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by water, dying of thirst, trying to create or find the right kind of water to suit their survival.
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CeeThruMeer
Aztek GoatBecoming Eagle
Registered: 12/08/04
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4082880 - 04/21/05 10:34 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I as well either seek out, or have meaning seek me out in many instances.
Most often this is observing or realizing the synchronicity of existence that goes undetected by most. Whether it is a delusion in my mind, or the way the world actually works, is not too important to me. Since I detect it, and it is real to me, I believe that it influences my life, and that it exists as I see it... and as was said before, it definitely makes life more interesting!
I think experiencing life this way is more common among (psychedelic) drug users, especially the philosophically and/or spiritually in tune. Although I know for sure that many "sober" people also find the meaning in everything.
I definitely believe it is there, and that it is an insight into the essence of existence... if we understood existence, not only would we realize that EVERY SINGLE aspect of EVERYTHING contains this vast meaning, but we would also constantly experience the divine connection of everything... (as well as (the possibility of) many other things that I have not perceived, or conceived). However, if we were to reach this state, and experience life in this way, then we would be perceiving through God's (Nature's) "eyes"... And as I believe humans will never fully understand Nature (God) than this small insight of synchronicity and significance is good enough for me 
All of this.... or... Nihilism.... hmm... which is it?  
p.s. Apologies for the not-so-well thought out post, which was interrupted a couple of times.
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"my old friend told me
to do well always
set your sails, open
ride your waves, flowing
just relax, sober
leave you past, it's over
bind two hands, stronger
my soul waits, forward" - Arjun and Guardians
Edited by CeeThruMeer (04/21/05 10:39 PM)
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Hahzist
Surfing theWaves of Chaos
Registered: 02/15/04
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#4082943 - 04/21/05 10:53 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
guess it is whatever way you choose to perceive it. I see things as just being, having an isness. One of my most memorable experiences is watching the life fall out of my grandmother, I didnt derive any meaning from it, she just died (physically), it was something that just WAS/IS. I think people strive for meanings they want to help reassure themselves of their worth or point. Kind of like someone stranded in a row boat, in the middle of the ocean, surrounded by water, dying of thirst, trying to create or find the right kind of water to suit their survival.
Im not sure what it is. And I think meaning is actually the wrong word. For example, a memorable experience for me that I will always cherish, is the first time I did shrooms. It was incredible. The way my mind was altered was so unexpected and it ended up being a lot of fun in that sense. Its not like I found the meaning of life in that experience and thats why I cherish it. It was just really interesting and fun.
So uhh I guess I agree with you then. Things just are :P
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#4083115 - 04/21/05 11:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Did you just hit quick reply? I agreed with you where you where you talked about when one becomes aware of something it starts poppin up ever where. That what I was talking about with the pattern recognition overlay stuff.
I highly doubt Ellemysh is schizo. To imply she is would be the same as saying anyone who finds life meaningful is. An there is nothing wrong with that either. It's what gets people through the day and keeps them from putting a gun to their heads.
I definitely appreciate the convos that go on here raising awareness on how life has no objective inherent meaning other then what we give it and how its relative.
Even this board can't agree on a universal meaning to life or an event.
Maybe Markos can share more on what he knows about recognizing synchronicities not being a sign you are going schizo but just are becoming more aware in longer states of cognition to be able to recognize patterns and connections.
Look at Brilliant mathematicians and musicians. They are extraordinary at it.
All that is probably some of what you meant about it not necessarily being a negative thing.
Life can become more vivid, creative and energized as meaning is added to it. It can be a great motivator for great things to be accomplished, relatively speaking.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
Edited by gettinjiggywithit (04/21/05 11:53 PM)
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soulmotion
Professor
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wjames
Phenomenologist
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4083833 - 04/22/05 04:18 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
EllemyshShade said:
I seem to be constantly finding meaning in every little stinking thing that happens to me. I don't even look for it...it finds me...
You?
Short answer: Yes. There seem to be two types. One are unambiguous, uncanny Synchronicities. I view these more or less in the Jungian sense--messages from the larger unconscious or larger Self.
The second are what one might term "associational meanings." These I'm more suspicious of. Due to the marvelous complexity of the brain, one can connect just about any two events, thoughts, or ideas with one or two associations. Paranoia's a great example of this--if you are so inclined, you can find reason to be paranoid in any situation.
But I think the the Synchronicities are the most important things. The more you are aware of them the more they seem to happen. Another way to look at them is that life is indeed "magical" and nonrational, and that God is taking care of you every step of the way in all kinds of ways.
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"We're all in this consciousness-raising business together."
"An idle mind is the devil's workshop."
"Everyone should eat hashish, but only once." - S. Dali
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MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 22,982
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: SneezingPenis]
#4083888 - 04/22/05 04:52 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psilocyberin said:
I dont mean this to be negative or assinine at all, but like mikeyboy said, schitzophrenics constantly search for and find some grandiose meaning in everything and become engrossed in it to the point it consumes them and their life entirely. Everything can have a million personal interpretations and if scrutinized long enough the arrangement of sesame seeds on my bread can have meaning or some bizarre coincidence. IMO, it is just you trying to justify a potential or past action to yourself, or yourself helping yourself make a decision based on these "uncanny" coincidences.
Things just are. They IS. Everything is connected because it is your universe and you have created it.EXAMPLE: ever learned a new word which you were completely unaware of its existence before, but once you learn it and understand it, you hear and see it "popping" up on everything? Until then, that word did not exist in your universe, so therefor you subconsciously (i hate to use that word) ignored it every time it occured.
Well, I've given it a lot of thought about whether or not I am schizophrenic. I have a wad of labels placed on me by doctors already, so it's something I keep in mind, particularly when taking psychedelics. And I'm sure that if I returned to the therapy and doctors, schizophrenia is a label that they might give me.
But I also know something else. Whether or not I'm a schizophrenic doesn't matter. Whether or not I have any mental illness doesn't really matter as long as I stay positive and true to myself. It sounds cliche, but it's true.
I wasted A LOT of time only a few years ago frantically believing that something was wrong with me just because someone else said so. To be honest, it was much easier on me when I believed I was mentally ill. I could always point to my mental illness as an excuse to fail, treat people badly, or simply be lazy. I started to 'become' the labels and I believed that I was "special" because I was "sick." I'm still trying to recover from that mindset.
My parents sent me to the psych doc when I was 13 and one of the first things the doc said to me was, "you'll probably be on medication for the rest of your life." I was 13 FREAKING YEARS OLD for gods sake. I still get angry when I think about what he said. That simple sentence defined the next few years for me. I believed what the doctors told me for the longest time.
WEll, I know myself better then any doctor ever could. I know my limits and thresholds (for the most part). I know when I need to back off from psychedelics and when it's okay for me to take the plunge. And yeah, people with mental illness probably shouldn't do psychoactive drugs. But in my case, they've been a life-savor.
Anyway, I didn't mean my post to turn into a mini-tirade about mental illness, but it's something that has impacted my life a great deal.
I guess what I am trying to say is that I could care less if I'm schizo or not. It simply doesn't matter as long as I am seeking truth and happiness. If delusions of grandeur and other weird shit is part of that, then it's fine with me.
*me*
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Todcasil
rogue DMT elf
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4083906 - 04/22/05 05:18 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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amen sister...
wether or not you have a mental illness should have no bearing on seeking hapiness, or meaning.
i am like you, i dont seek out meaning, it just appears before me....
i will close my speech before i incriminate myself.
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Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.
~Casil
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4083909 - 04/22/05 05:21 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well said.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Cervantes]
#4085805 - 04/22/05 07:06 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree whole-heartedly with you. The term mental illness is brimming with pretentiousness, and people start believing in their labels. I sometimes wish i was schitzophrenic, i find them to be fascinating. Like I said in an earlier thread: here, take these drugs so you can be more like me!
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4085870 - 04/22/05 07:31 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Do the experiences you are having impair your function or enhance it? If you feel impaired then the doctors can help, if you feel functional...no matter how weird you might be...just enjoy being weird and know you are not alone. Having dissociative experiences is not necessarily a symptom of mental illness. In Native American tribes it was felt that all people had a place and a function. Among the Lakota and other plains tribes, mental illness was viewed as a blessing from the creator. Often these individuals performed as Heyoka. They were a sort of clown who lived a life promoting what they thought was right through comedy and parody. This was a politically powerful position for the Heyoka usually promoted the view of the common person, and they were taken quite seriously. Others who had what our society terms "mental illness" became shaman. They learned to control the voices that came through them and make sense of their noise in order to guide and heal others. In our society any person outside the norm is pigeonholed as abnormal. I have mental illness in my family in a strong way. By brother is schizophrenic, and receives treatment for it. He has also advanced himself further since going active than in the 20 years before. His disease inspired him. He recently picked up a degree and aspires to counsel others. I am mildly autistic. My childhood was hell for it,(tics, twitches, grunts...you get the picture) but as an adult I have learned to channel it's peculiar energy into a productive career. Am I disabled...hell no...I am blessed.
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"We either make ourselves miserable, or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.”
― Carlos Castaneda
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 79,903
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MOTH]
#4085898 - 04/22/05 07:41 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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The interpretation of things or events my be subjective but that doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Everything may have meaning including the leaves at the bottom of your tea cup. But who is aware enough to catch all of this? Like your dreams which may all have meaning if you could decipher them completely, everything in this dream of life may be open for interpretation, and action on that interpretation if one is up to it. I suspect so, but who knows? 
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"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Icelander]
#4086457 - 04/22/05 10:54 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
The interpretation of things or events may be subjective but that doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Exactly. 
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger
Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: JacquesCousteau]
#4086513 - 04/22/05 11:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about finding meaninglessness in everything you do?
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JacquesCousteau
Being.
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#4086523 - 04/22/05 11:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said:
How about finding meaninglessness in everything you do?
What about it? Are you asking if you can? Go ahead, it's your choice. I'm not going to... I tried that a long time ago, and I found it made me feel empty and lonely. *shrug*
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MOTH
Wild Woman
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 22,982
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: Finding meaning in EVERYTHING...do you? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4087642 - 04/23/05 05:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said:
Do the experiences you are having impair your function or enhance it?
They're interesting, neither good or bad. I feel enriched by them. Sometimes I feel guilty for examining my 'delusions' in depth, because I feel like there is some written code in society that I am breaking by even thinking or believing certain things. I'm learning not to be bothered by that as time goes on.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, everyone.
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