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 cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
Registered: 06/12/03
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Loc: florida
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 Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers  [Re: Catalysis]
#3975783 - 03/27/05 12:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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how you can force people to be less individualistic.
I agree. We're looking at hundreds of years old ideology of Manifest Destiny. The idea that is taught from a very young age in school that it was god's mandate for the white man to conquer new areas. At least from my experience this wasn't taught as some archaic wrong ideology but simply the way things were. If a child is taught this throughout his education then I'm not surprised later in life he will have an extremely individualistic ideology.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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 Psychoactive1984 
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: Catalysis]
#3975798 - 03/27/05 01:02 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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pffft!
I didn't bother to read the whole thread, so might be going over what has been discussed.
NRA would advocate giving guns to Ice cream man. The best way to stop the violence dealing with guns, is by eliminating the feelings associated with the need to use the guns in a violent manner.
The easiest way to do so is to do psychological testing or something on those that are a "risk" for this type of behavior, which is unethical as it would end up discrimating against those that are percieved as threats (those of counter cultures). Parents just need to train their children properly, and the problem will be solved.
Remeber; an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
What if instead of having students rampaging, we now have a full grown adult, with a higher intellect running around a school with a gun due to something as stupid as tenure? /breaks out the scale
Teacher with higher developed mental faculties and an issue > prepubescent teen with an issue.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: cb9fl]
#3975887 - 03/27/05 01:49 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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We're looking at hundreds of years old ideology of Manifest Destiny. The idea that is taught from a very young age in school that it was god's mandate for the white man to conquer new areas. At least from my experience this wasn't taught as some archaic wrong ideology but simply the way things were.
I call bullshit. Public education nowadays in no way supports "Manifest Destiny" or super "pro-white" stances. In fact it is the exact opposite. White apologists, "Multi-culturalism", and political correctness are the norm in public schools.
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RandalFlagg
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As an aside, if I was a teacher with a gun in a public school I would probably end up shooting snot-nosed kids who pissed me off. 
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RandalFlagg
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: exclusive58]
#3975898 - 03/27/05 01:58 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
exclusive58 said:
What i meant is that the abundance of violence in the US makes its population take lots of security measures, to assure themselves that they will not be the next victim of such violence. And i believe that such acts of prevention do not help to stop violence, on the opposite i think they feed violence even more, like gasoline on fire. Thats why i said its a vicious circle.
Oh No! Not another Micheal Moore convert!!
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: cb9fl]
#3978163 - 03/28/05 12:24 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Must be 21 to purchase, own or carry a firearm. Nice try.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: SoopaX]
#3979401 - 03/28/05 08:16 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Prove it.
In Florida you can purchase a rifle or shotgun at 18 just not a handgun. In Alabama I have found no regulation stating 21, it appears their legal age is 18.
http://www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/alabama
Quote:
Resident Permit/License: yes
Non-resident Permit/License: no
Shall-issue Permit/License: no
Must apply in person: yes
Info in Permit/License Public: yes
Permit/License age minimum: 18
Shall-issue means that the issuing authority has no discretion when to issue Permit/License if the applicant is not disqualified.
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Silversoul
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: cb9fl]
#3980504 - 03/28/05 04:11 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cb9fl said:
In Florida you can purchase a rifle or shotgun at 18 just not a handgun.
Doesn't seem like those would be the type of guns you'd carry around on you with a concealed carry permit.
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cb9fl
Senior ChildMolestationExpert
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: cb9fl]
#3980552 - 03/28/05 04:25 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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True but I was pointing out that Alabama appears to allow concealed carry of handguns at 18. And as I asked before, "Should that student be allowed to enter school with a handgun?"
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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."
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Cervantes
Devil's Advocate
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3980610 - 03/28/05 04:46 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Let's all look back at all the teachers we have had in life, now, I KNOW I wouldn't trust the majority of MY former teachers with a gun... would you?
I don't think teachers should have guns.
But, I do wonder if they were given guns, would school violence rise or fall? What about accidents?
You think students shooting up a school is bad? Wait until a teacher does it.
What if a student takes their teacher's gun? Then what?
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Silversoul
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: Cervantes]
#3981001 - 03/28/05 06:43 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Let's all look back at all the teachers we have had in life, now, I KNOW I wouldn't trust the majority of MY former teachers with a gun... would you?
Were your teachers homocidal maniacs? Do you think they'd shoot a kid for chewing gum in class?
Quote:
I don't think teachers should have guns.
Maybe. I think it's perfectly reasonable for security guards to have guns, though.
Quote:
But, I do wonder if they were given guns, would school violence rise or fall? What about accidents?
It would probably depend on their training, but I would expect them not to draw their guns out of their holsters unless an incident arose which demanded such measures, so I doubt it would be much different.
Quote:
You think students shooting up a school is bad? Wait until a teacher does it.
It's already much easier for a teacher to do so than for a student, and yet it hasn't happened yet.
Quote:
What if a student takes their teacher's gun? Then what?
Then there'd be other armed people around that could stop him. If they keep their gun in a holster, I think it'd be that much to worry about. I'm not saying let's try it out. Despite what bi0 seems to think, I'm not all gung ho about arming everyone. I'm just saying that the NRA's idea isn't as crazy as it sounds. If there were some responsible adults there who had guns, then they could stop a student going on a rampage, and even the knowledge that such people are there could act as a preventative measure.
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
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Posts: 1,690
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: exclusive58]
#3982502 - 03/29/05 12:09 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think you understand the NRA's position. They want teachers to BE ALLOWED to carry guns if they want to. Not forced to carry guns, not mandated to carry guns, and not employed as security guards. It wouldn't be part of their job any more than a regular citizen carrying a gun would be a policeman.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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Cervantes
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: SoopaX]
#3982667 - 03/29/05 12:37 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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So how the hell would it help... if only a few teachers had guns? If ALL teachers had guns, and the students were locked behind bars, you may see less gun violence in schools (although, I bet knifings would go WAY up  )... but not if only a handful of teachers were armed.
Really, one school in five years, gets shot up by some Collumbine wannabe, and now teachers should be allowed carry guns if they want to? Yeah, kids bringing guns to school is a HUGE problem...
I really think more students would BRING guns to school if they thought their teachers had 'em too.
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Lothar121
Marijuanaactivist
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As long as it is in a limited form, say only two teachers having guns campus wide and as long as their background check is clean of violence, I would support this. I think like the poster above me said all they are saying is teachers should be able to carry a gun if they choose to, not be forced to. I think some of you are looking at this completely wrong.
Edited by Lothar121 (03/29/05 12:47 AM)
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Cervantes
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Re: Good idea imo [Re: Lothar121]
#3984176 - 03/29/05 05:57 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am not looking at this wrong at all, I have a different opinion, that's all.
Guns can only DETER or INSIGHT violence, guns have never prevented gun violence.
I think school works best when there are NO guns at all. A school without guns has no gun violence.
Nobody gets shot with a non-gun.
Here's an idea: if people want guns in school, they can go to gun school.
Problem solved. 
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I know you think you understand the words I have just said to you but, what you fail to realize is, what you thought I said is not what I actually meant by saying what I said, when I said it.
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Vvellum
Stranger
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: Silversoul]
#3984529 - 03/29/05 10:50 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I'm not saying let's try it out. Despite what bi0 seems to think, I'm not all gung ho about arming everyone. I'm just saying that the NRA's idea isn't as crazy as it sounds. If there were some responsible adults there who had guns, then they could stop a student going on a rampage, and even the knowledge that such people are there could act as a preventative measure.
how often do these rampages occur? and how often do you think accidents are likely to happen?
answers:
not very often at all - most likely a weird trend that will fade away
&
fairly likely considering all the factors at play (see my other post)
how is this even a solution in your head?
you obviously have never taught in a public school before...
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unbeliever
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: RandalFlagg]
#3984542 - 03/29/05 10:58 AM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about we treat the cause of the (gun) violence in schools instead of the symptom? Parental involvement, a move away from the conformity first, knowledge second approach to education. Magnet schools are a good start. Getting rid of under-funded penalty based programs like NCLB would also help. Better teacher to student ratios would make a world of difference as well.
Novel ideas I know..
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Happiness is a warm gun...
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RandalFlagg
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: unbeliever]
#3985107 - 03/29/05 02:14 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Parental involvement
Ask parents to raise their children???!?!?! Heresay!
Better teacher to student ratios would make a world of difference as well.
I disagree. I saw a statistic recently that says that teacher to student ratios have gone dramatically up (i.e. smaller amounts of kids in the classroom) and educational scores have gone down.
I have a relative that teaches in a public school and has for about thirty years. She says she used to always have classes with over thirty kids and things were fine. She now has classes with about twenty or so kids and they are out of control and they don't listen. I think it is a social problem. These kids just don't have any discipline at home.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: Silversoul]
#3985113 - 03/29/05 02:16 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Paradigm said:
Were your teachers homocidal maniacs? Do you think they'd shoot a kid for chewing gum in class?
Well....this one teacher I had might have.
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SoopaX
Criminal DrugAnalyst
Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 1,690
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Re: NRA Leader Advocates Guns for Teachers [Re: Cervantes]
#3985745 - 03/29/05 04:09 PM (8 years, 1 month ago) |
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All I am saying is that citizens in the US who are of age and have a clear background check are allowed to purchase firearms. Most states allow them to carry the firearm on public property. Why can't a teacher be allowed to carry a firearm at school? He shouldn't be given any added tasks at school, such as doubling as a security guard, hes just a private citizen carrying a gun legally. Ever see the Substitute? Tom Berringer didn't take NO SHIT off them punks and look how it turned out.
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Jackie Treehorn treats objects like women, man
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